Kirill Marchenko - the here and now addition needed imho

[Scottysabres]

Won’t go over the stats between Quinn and Marchenko. You can all go to Puckpedia and see the striking similarities at their respective 23 yr old seasons. Marchenko has the 24/25 yr old seasons as proven commodities. We all see Quinn’s projections all over the board, some pro, some con in opinions. But there are a couple things to point out in favor of a move for Marchenko, I’m on board, and in this thread I’d like to discuss.

Jarmo drafted Marchenko, he knows the player. Familiarity with player and player with mngt given 2 of CBJ’s staff from his draft are here now, key pieces of his selection to boot.

It’s been reported Marchenko feels more comfortable with a Russian player or 2 in his midst. While this merely rumored conjecture at this time, I raise the 20th pick in our draft as not only a good player, but a commodity that adds positive to this conjecture. Also the Russian players we may be waiting on to make decisions over in the KHL.

It will cost in trade capitol to get him. But the Sabres have the assets, both roster (Quinn being primary in that regard) and near or short development ready assets.

Contract cost is all over the board to sign him him long term, but at 26 yrs old, 11 to 13 a season is what I see as his projected ask. You all can fill in what your thoughts are on this.

Line 1 vs line 2 RW’er. What is his actual position potential ceiling wise?

He is an immediate upgrade on the existing roster. He fills a need in the Tuch void offensively, 4 yrs younger. I am pro go get him, your thoughts?

discuss………

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Won’t go over the stats between Quinn and Marchenko. You can all go to Puckpedia and see the striking similarities at their respective 23 yr old seasons. Marchenko has the 24/25 yr old seasons as proven commodities. We all see Quinn’s projections all over the board, some pro, some con in opinions. But there are a couple things to point out in favor of a move for Marchenko, I’m on board, and in this thread I’d like to discuss.

Jarmo drafted Marchenko, he knows the player. Familiarity with player and player with mngt given 2 of CBJ’s staff from his draft are here now, key pieces of his selection to boot.

It’s been reported Marchenko feels more comfortable with a Russian player or 2 in his midst. While this merely rumored conjecture at this time, I raise the 20th pick in our draft as not only a good player, but a commodity that adds positive to this conjecture. Also the Russian players we may be waiting on to make decisions over in the KHL.

It will cost in trade capitol to get him. But the Sabres have the assets, both roster (Quinn being primary in that regard) and near or short development ready assets.

Contract cost is all over the board to sign him him long term, but at 26 yrs old, 11 to 13 a season is what I see as his projected ask. You all can fill in what your thoughts are on this.

Line 1 vs line 2 RW’er. What is his actual position potential ceiling wise?

He is an immediate upgrade on the existing roster. He fills a need in the Tuch void offensively, 4 yrs younger. I am pro go get him, your thoughts?

discuss………

If we hadn't signed Ostund at $8m per season it be affordable but that just about eliminates any big name additions unless move some serious cap. I was all in on him during the draft when felt be easiest time for a move like this. 

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

If we hadn't signed Ostund at $8m per season it be affordable but that just about eliminates any big name additions unless move some serious cap. I was all in on him during the draft when felt be easiest time for a move like this. 

They just announced the cap is going up another $14M for 28/29. They have plenty of room to sign him especially because some salary will be going out. Plus Östlund didnt get $8M, it was $6.6M.

Edited September 25 by tom webster

[ponokasabre]

The jarmo drafted him is the connection that interests me the most

 

Jarmo will know everything about him so if he beleives he will fit then we can take a run at him

 

Now I think Marchenko is a bit like a young Alex Tuch? Big body, will throw it around a bit, but not a bruiser. 

 

I dont know if he as good definsivley as Alex was, but Marchenko is a stud. I would trade a lot for him and I know that they say they dont want futures, but man for a team like Columbus they will forsure take them. There is a good chance they struggle again this year. 

[Scottysabres]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

If we hadn't signed Ostund at $8m per season it be affordable but that just about eliminates any big name additions unless move some serious cap. I was all in on him during the draft when felt be easiest time for a move like this. 

To be fair, a couple of points on this.

Quinn is 3.3 for this season, Marchenko 3.85, so for this season it’s a wash given the Sabres have 3.3 in space currently.

Now, next season, currently the Sabres have a projected 29 mil in space with 15 active roster contracts. Let’s surmise it’s 13 a season for Marchenko starting next season, the high side,  that still leaves 16 mil cap space with 16 contracts. With Zucker, Carrick and Danforth all most likely coming off the books given their mid 30’s age ranges and only Crevier and Kulich as RFA’s, that puts the Sabres in a fantastic position cap wise even if, as stated, Marchenko wants 13 a season. This is where all those 6.9 to 7.9 contracts really pay dividends. The ability to make big moves without tearing apart the existing chemistry from these coming in to their primes heart of the team.

And Östlund is 6.6, not 8 a season.

[Night Train]

Has it been reported he's available  ? 

[tom webster]

Just now, Night Train said:

Has it been reported he's available  ? 

He has been open about wanting out. It’s been reported he won’t re-sign with them.

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Night Train said:

Has it been reported he's available  ? 

Great question, and no. His agent has stated he won’t be re-signing in Columbus. So all of this is based on that Night, and yea, they may try to ride out the season to convince him other wise. But the statement from his agent when combined with Marchenko’s own interviews leaves nothing to the imagination. He’s not going to re-sign there is my take after reading for days on this guy. His material is why I’ve been quiet mostly for the pre-season. I’ve been trying to play catch up on a lot of the actual info on these rumored players. I just binge watched a lot game high lights from this guy, loving what I see offensively.

[SabresFan69420]

I would have to assume he’s available, the home fans booed him the other night

[sabresouth]

After a disappointing off season as far as not replacing Tuchs production. I am all in for getting him. Have always liked his play.

[mjd1001]

I would be open to the idea, but I don't know enough about his all around game.

The questions to be answered are:

-Whos spot does he take in the lineup now from the top 9?

-What do you have to give up (in assets)?

-For what you are giving up in assets, does it make sense for how much better he will be than the player whos spot he takes in the top 9?

-And finally, what does it take to sign him?  We are in a cap world, and the Sabres are going to be close to the cap going forward.  You have to make sure you are getting value for your money more when you are near the cap than when you are $15m under it.

So for example, lets say he takes Quinn's spot in the top 9.  You have to trade Quinn for him plus additional assets.  Would those additional assets (plus a few $million in cap space) be worth it for how much better he would be than Quinn?   I don't know. I don't know enough about him.

If he does want to play with some other Russians, I'm not sure he wants to wait a couple more years for them to arrive here. Plus my impression is that Russian players tend to leave smaller markets NOT for other smaller markets, but they like bigger markets.

[EM88]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I would be open to the idea, but I don't know enough about his all around game.

 

Defensively his numbers are a case of 'some OK' and 'some not OK'.

His plus-minus is good.

His expected goal differential, and his expected goals allowed per minute are not.

He did not kill penalties.

He was not really trusted to be one of the 5 guys out there at the end of games protecting a lead when the opponent pulls the goalie. 16 players last year on the Blue Jackets had more ice time late in games protecting a lead than he did.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

If we hadn't signed Ostund at $8m per season it be affordable but that just about eliminates any big name additions unless move some serious cap. I was all in on him during the draft when felt be easiest time for a move like this. 

We didn't do that. Östlund is signed at 6.6mil per season and that doesn't hit that cap until July 1, 2027.

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I would be open to the idea, but I don't know enough about his all around game.

The questions to be answered are:

-Whos spot does he take in the lineup now from the top 9?

-What do you have to give up (in assets)?

-For what you are giving up in assets, does it make sense for how much better he will be than the player whos spot he takes in the top 9?

-And finally, what does it take to sign him?  We are in a cap world, and the Sabres are going to be close to the cap going forward.  You have to make sure you are getting value for your money more when you are near the cap than when you are $15m under it.

So for example, lets say he takes Quinn's spot in the top 9.  You have to trade Quinn for him plus additional assets.  Would those additional assets (plus a few $million in cap space) be worth it for how much better he would be than Quinn?   I don't know. I don't know enough about him.

If he does want to play with some other Russians, I'm not sure he wants to wait a couple more years for them to arrive here. Plus my impression is that Russian players tend to leave smaller markets NOT for other smaller markets, but they like bigger markets.

The bolded is factually false. The Sabres will not have cap issues going forward. A look at the now NHL released cap ceilings next 2 seasons combined with all of these 6.9 to 7.9 mil contracts puts the Sabres in a prime cap position for multiple big additions if they choose.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Won’t go over the stats between Quinn and Marchenko. You can all go to Puckpedia and see the striking similarities at their respective 23 yr old seasons. Marchenko has the 24/25 yr old seasons as proven commodities. We all see Quinn’s projections all over the board, some pro, some con in opinions. But there are a couple things to point out in favor of a move for Marchenko, I’m on board, and in this thread I’d like to discuss.

Jarmo drafted Marchenko, he knows the player. Familiarity with player and player with mngt given 2 of CBJ’s staff from his draft are here now, key pieces of his selection to boot.

It’s been reported Marchenko feels more comfortable with a Russian player or 2 in his midst. While this merely rumored conjecture at this time, I raise the 20th pick in our draft as not only a good player, but a commodity that adds positive to this conjecture. Also the Russian players we may be waiting on to make decisions over in the KHL.

It will cost in trade capitol to get him. But the Sabres have the assets, both roster (Quinn being primary in that regard) and near or short development ready assets.

Contract cost is all over the board to sign him him long term, but at 26 yrs old, 11 to 13 a season is what I see as his projected ask. You all can fill in what your thoughts are on this.

Line 1 vs line 2 RW’er. What is his actual position potential ceiling wise?

He is an immediate upgrade on the existing roster. He fills a need in the Tuch void offensively, 4 yrs younger. I am pro go get him, your thoughts?

discuss………

If you believed that Quinn will have a 30  plus goal season, as I do, would you make the trade? It’s a hard no for me if a trade for Marchenko meant a Quinn departure. 

[Scottysabres]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you believed that Quinn will have a 30  plus goal season, as I do, would you make the trade? It’s a hard no for me if a trade for Marchenko meant a Quinn departure. 

If the team is to avoid or offset some of the regression that is to come, I’m of the opinion they need to address the production loss of Tuch in the line up. Improvement in the here and now. 

[mjd1001]

57 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

The bolded is factually false. The Sabres will not have cap issues going forward. A look at the now NHL released cap ceilings next 2 seasons combined with all of these 6.9 to 7.9 mil contracts puts the Sabres in a prime cap position for multiple big additions if they choose.

Nice try, but read my post and comprehend it. I said "close to the cap" you are saying "cap issues"  Don't call out someone who is correct just becuase it doesn't fit your narrative and change it to 'cap issues' that is not what I said.

What you said is factually false Right now the Sabres are at $101.54 millon of a $103m cap. that is 98.6% of the cap.  I certainly think that is closer to my defintion of being 'close to the cap' than your statement of it being 'factually false'.  Even with the Cap going up, the following year they have comitted almost $80m with likely having 7-10 positions that will need to be filled. Again, not 'cap issues' but certainly the will be close to the cap...EXACTLY what I said.

I said they would be CLOSE to the cap, not have cap issues. Those are two different things. But you don't have to have 'cap issues' as you say for the value you get from contracts to mean something. Mathematically, the closer you are to the cap, the more you pay/overpay someone can impact you in a negative way.

Edited September 26 by mjd1001

[Scottysabres]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Nice try, but read my post and comprehend it. I said "close to the cap" you are saying "cap issues"  Don't call out someone who is correct just becuase it doesn't fit your narrative and change it to 'cap issues' that is not what I said.

What you said is factually false Right now the Sabres are at $101.54 millon of a $103m cap. that is 98.6% of the cap.  I certainly think that is closer to my defintion of being 'close to the cap' than your statement of it being 'factually false'.  Even with the Cap going up, the following year they have comitted almost $80m with likely having 7-10 positions that will need to be filled. Again, not 'cap issues' but certainly the will be close to the cap...EXACTLY what I said.

I said they would be CLOSE to the cap, not have cap issues. Those are two different things. But you don't have to have 'cap issues' as you say for the value you get from contracts to mean something. Mathematically, the closer you are to the cap, the more you pay/overpay someone can impact you in a negative way.

29 million next season with 40 the following season 15 and 13 contracts respectively, core players all, in cap space is hardly close to the cap.
 

Attempting to put them “close to the cap” is subjective right now. Therefore, I will “call you out”, as you put it. Hate the game not the player.

(yea, I can roll that way to 🙄)

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

If the team is to avoid or offset some of the regression that is to come, I’m of the opinion they need to address the production loss of Tuch in the line up. Improvement in the here and now. 

I believe that Quinn is likely to make up for much of the Tuch production loss. I also expect players such as Benson, Doan, Östlund and others to collectively make up for the Tuch loss of production. 

Edited September 26 by JohnC

[Broken Ankles]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I believe that a Quinn is likely to make up for much of the Tuch production loss. I also expect players such as Benson, Doan, Östlund and others to collectively make up for the Tuch loss of production. 

[Scottysabres]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I believe that Quinn is likely to make up for much of the Tuch production loss. I also expect players such as Benson, Doan, Östlund and others to collectively make up for the Tuch loss of production. 

I believe that’s possible.

I have pointed out the similarities in their production to age. I just view Marchenko as the proven commodity given his 2 seasons at sustained 65 to 75 point production.

[Pimlach]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I believe that Quinn is likely to make up for much of the Tuch production loss. I also expect players such as Benson, Doan, Östlund and others to collectively make up for the Tuch loss of production. 

The Marchenko talk is a dream, but it would be great to inject another proven stud into the lineup.   Marchenko has three 20+ goal scoring seasons and one 30+ season.  Quinn had 20 last season for the first time.  

We are “hoping” for Quinn to take a step, while Marchenko already is proven at that next step.  Marchenko is also a physical beast.  

But again, this thread is a hypothetical topic.  
 

 

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The Marchenko talk is a dream, but it would be great to inject another proven stud into the lineup.   Marchenko has three 20+ goal scoring seasons and one 30+ season.  Quinn had 20 last season for the first time.  

We are “hoping” for Quinn to take a step, while Marchenko already is proven at that next step.  Marchenko is also a physical beast.  

But again, this thread is a hypothetical topic.  
 

 

I’m confident that Quinn will have a 30 plus season. Again, no to the proposed deal.

[mjd1001]

10 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

29 million next season with 40 the following season 15 and 13 contracts respectively, core players all, in cap space is hardly close to the cap.
 

Attempting to put them “close to the cap” is subjective right now. Therefore, I will “call you out”, as you put it. Hate the game not the player.

(yea, I can roll that way to 🙄)

As far as hating the game, not the player...I'm good enough that I can do both (when required, as in responding to your post)

Except you are wrong in this case. You still insist on twisting me saying they are going to be close to the cap into your 'cap trouble' because you are wrong, you know it, and you are too deep into your argument and want to save face. I get it. Its ok.

Oh, and you still didn't even bother to read/respond the my general point about AS you get closer to the cap (again, CLOSER, not in trouble, higher priced contracts have a greater impact on teams.

Edited September 26 by mjd1001

[Scottysabres]

11 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As far as hating the game, not the player...I'm good enough that I can do both (when required, as in responding to your post)

Except you are wrong in this case.  But if your fragile ego needs to 'call' other people out by changing the words (or reacting to differnent ones) in their originial post, go at it.

Oh, and you still didn't even bother to read/respond the my general point, you only twisted it to make it about yours. 🤡

You asked 4 or 5 questions, made a statement about being close to the cap (which the numbers show is patently false) and then  gave an example where you were questioning whether he’d be better than Quinn (which again, he’s already proven he is, 65 to 75 point player consistently, something Quinn hasn’t remotely sniffed), asked what it would take to sign him, which I gave a baseline projection (11 to 13 mil) in my OP and questioned whether a Russian player would want to come here given they go to larger not smaller markets as well as unsure if he’d be willing to wait for Russian talent we currently have to show up (which again, I addressed as opinion in my OP).

So, which is your general point again?

And I did address much of these questions via my opinion in the OP. Quinn would be the piece he’s replacing that should have been self evident, projected price given in salary/contract. The price in a trade is a discussion worth having since the point/goal increase, type of play and expected ROI is a good conversation, it’s why I asked the question and submitted my view on the increase from 39 pts to 70 avg’ing (the difference currently between Quinn and Marchenko).

And lastly, let’s not ignore the rumors on Quinn’s name being involved in prior attempted moves, I.E. the Hellebuyck trade attempt. Multiple insiders reported that, suggesting Jarmo and staff view him as an asset that is worth just enough to be moved.

My question is did you even read the OP?

Edited September 26 by Scottysabres