Last Day For Eight Year Contracts- Would you?

[tom webster]

Östlund, Quinn, Kulich, Crevier. Six days to sign them to eight year deals and get a discount. We know @JohnC would sign them all, would you gamble on any of them?

Edited September 15 by tom webster

[Scottysabres]

Östlund yes

[ska-T Chitown]

Quinn would worry me ... and I am a big JQ fan. But for the number he would probably be looking for, he'd need to at least maintain what we saw last year and I just not quite there that he does it. Of course, if he does match/exceed those numbers his 6-yr price goes up next year.

The other three, I know it is a cop-out, but it depends on what they ask for. I believe Östlund and Kulich are our future, do we give them the Power treatment? Moderately oversized contract in the near term for cap space and certainty 2-3 yrs from now? With the cap going up and the Skinner space clearing up, maybe.

Crevier? Again - what does he want. I think he will be better than most around here are giving him credit for ... he was a good defender on a terrible team last year. But, if they make any of the other deals above, there is not much room to take a huge gamble on him.

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Östlund, Quinn, Kulich, Crevier. Six days to sign them to eight year deals and get a discount. We know @JohnC would sign them all, would you gamble on any of them?

I'm not going to comment on Crevier because I'm not as familiar with his play as the other young players you listed. My emphatic recommendation is sign them early and get the discount. Getting them locked up early puts us in a good cap situation in the next number of years. 

[tom webster]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not going to comment on Crevier because I'm not as familiar with his play as the other young players you listed. My emphatic recommendation is sign them early and get the discount. Getting them locked up early puts us in a good cap situation in the next number of years. 

Color me shocked. 😉 You are right as long as you’re sure they are that good. I’m not as certain.

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Color me shocked. 😉 You are right as long as you’re sure they are that good. I’m not as certain.

I'm not going to say that I'm absolutely sure in my position. However, I'm confident enough in my position where I believe that these young players are going to be as a baseline good, and it wouldn't surprise me that one or two of them will move up the ladder and be very good. Having some patience with young players is not a bad thing. Samuelsson and Power are examples of that. My belief is that Quinn is at a stage of his development where he is ready to be one of our primary scorers.  TBD.

[nfreeman]

Good question.  Östlund presumably wouldn't cost that much as he has 27 pts in 68 career NHL games.  I think he's a good player who is going to keep improving and that injuries are the only risk of him not delivering quality play for the next 8 years -- so I would sign him.

We haven't seen Crevier play a minute in a Sabres uniform, so I would not sign him.

Kulich is an interesting case -- 29 pts in 75 career NHL games, lots of physical tools, he looked good on a terrible Sabres team 2 years ago and then missed almost an entire season last year.  Pretty wide range of possible outcomes if he gets an 8-year deal.  I'd probably pass.

Quinn is the toughest question.  It will be expensive and he's been pretty up-and-down.  I really liked what I saw from him in the 2nd half of last season.  He turns 25 in a couple of weeks.  I'd probably give him the 8-year deal, because I think the most likely outcome is that he'll prove to be worth it, and that the 2nd half of the deal he'll likely be well underpaid -- but it's got some risk.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I'm not going to comment on Crevier because I'm not as familiar with his play as the other young players you listed. My emphatic recommendation is sign them early and get the discount. Getting them locked up early puts us in a good cap situation in the next number of years. 

All for 8 years?    The only known quantity is Quinn.  

Edited September 9 by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

I’m already on record that I would extend Quinn, Kulich, and Östlund long-term. I’m not worried about whether that means 6, 7, or 8 years, and would mostly leave that to the player based on their comfort level. All 3 have shown they are NHL players, in my view, and all 3 have had some health ups and downs in their journey to and/or in the NHL. I think the security of a 6-8 year deal with a $6.5 -$7.25 million AAV would be enticing to all 3. With the cap going the way it is, I think the risk that any of the 3 would end up being a problem contract is minimal. 

[LGR4GM]

You don't need to give players 8yr deals. The difference between 7 and 8 years overall will be negligible especially for players at the levels Kulich or Quinn or Crevier. 

[ponokasabre]

you could take a gamble at Crevier at say a Sammy like contract. 4 million per year x 8 years

 

That would be a big gamble but it could pay off huge. I think Crevier is gonna be a keeper 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

All for 8 years?    The only known quantity is Quinn.  

I simply see more there than you do. If you recall, the mob wanted to prematurely bury Samuelsson and Power. I’m sure you will agree that course of action would have been a mistake. My recommendation is simply to trust your eyes 👀. 😎

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I simply see more there than you do. If you recall, the mob wanted to prematurely bury Samuelsson and Power. I’m sure you will agree that course of action would have been a mistake. My recommendation is simply to trust your eyes 👀. 😎

I don't think you see more there than I do, but I think you fall in love with players quickly.  You tend to oversimplify things and then repeat things until you become convinced it happened.   

First of all, Muel and Power were extended when the team barely spent to the cap floor.  There was no risk in extending them either.  Muel did not get a huge contract and Power was the FOA with a bright future.  

Most here thought the Muel signing would be a steal over time, and it is right now, despite him being injury riddled for a few years.   

Most people here thought that they extended Power too early, based on one season, and that may have actually slowed his development and put undo stress on him.   I thought he would grow into his salary but looking back there is no doubt that for a few years he was making more $$ than many NHL defenders that were better players.  

From the list of Quinn, Kulich, and Östlund I have not seen any reason to extend any of them for 8 years.  Kulich is coming off of a serious medical issue, I want to watch him for another season before I extend him.  Östlund played 60 games last year and we still do not know exactly what we have, but he seem most likely to break out and earn an extension.  

Quinn hit 20 goals for the first time in 4 seasons and you want to lock him up until he is at 32?   How much are willing to pay him?   You do realize he would be giving up several shots at maximizing his salary so he will be asking for a lot more money than most guys with just one 20 goal season under their belt.  

It is best to look at each player individually then to extend a massive group all at once.   The roster has diverse needs.   

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

I don't think you see more there than I do, but I think you fall in love with players quickly.  You tend to oversimplify things and then repeat things until you become convinced it happened.   

First of all, Muel and Power were extended when the team barely spent to the cap floor.  There was no risk in extending them either.  Muel did not get a huge contract and Power was the FOA with a bright future.  

Most here thought the Muel signing would be a steal over time, and it is right now, despite him being injury riddled for a few years.   

Most people here thought that they extended Power too early, based on one season, and that may have actually slowed his development and put undo stress on him.   I thought he would grow into his salary but looking back there is no doubt that for a few years he was making more $$ than many NHL defenders that were better players.  

From the list of Quinn, Kulich, and Östlund I have not seen any reason to extend any of them for 8 years.  Kulich is coming off of a serious medical issue, I want to watch him for another season before I extend him.  Östlund played 60 games last year and we still do not know exactly what we have, but he seem most likely to break out and earn an extension.  

Quinn hit 20 goals for the first time in 4 seasons and you want to lock him up until he is at 32?   How much are willing to pay him?   You do realize he would be giving up several shots at maximizing his salary so he will be asking for a lot more money than most guys with just one 20 goal season under their belt.  

It is best to look at each player individually then to extend a massive group all at once.   The roster has diverse needs.   

Most people here thought that Samuelsson should be dealt because he was injury prone. That was the prevailing view. And many, if not a majority, of our posters wanted Power dealt because he wasn't a banger. Now they are core players. The lesson to be learned is to be more patient. 

I'm confident that Kulich, Östlund and Helenius are going to be good players. And I'm confident that Quinn, who was often vilified here, is going to be an important player for us and mitigating the loss of Tuch's scoring from the roster. 

With respect to your characterization of my advocating on behalf of a massive group, that is clearly off the mark. I've listed only four players (Quinn, Kulich, and Helenius and to a lesser extent Östlund) that I don't want to see being dealt right now. You are misusing the word massive. 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Most people here thought that Samuelsson should be dealt because he was injury prone. That was the prevailing view. And many, if not a majority, of our posters wanted Power dealt because he wasn't a banger. Now they are core players. The lesson to be learned is to be more patient. 

I'm confident that Kulich, Östlund and Helenius are going to be good players. And I'm confident that Quinn, who was often vilified here, is going to be an important player for us and mitigating the loss of Tuch's scoring from the roster. 

With respect to your characterization of my advocating on behalf of a massive group, that is clearly off the mark. I've listed only four players (Quinn, Kulich, and Helenius and to a lesser extent Östlund) that I don't want to see being dealt right now. You are misusing the word massive. 

Jeff Skinner, Michael Kesselring, JJ Peterka. All players this team moved on from. The lesson to be learned is not more patience, it is that sometimes it does work out (Samuelsson). You shouldn't just blanket apply that to others though. 

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Most people here thought that Samuelsson should be dealt because he was injury prone. That was the prevailing view. And many, if not a majority, of our posters wanted Power dealt because he wasn't a banger. Now they are core players. The lesson to be learned is to be more patient. 

I'm confident that Kulich, Östlund and Helenius are going to be good players. And I'm confident that Quinn, who was often vilified here, is going to be an important player for us and mitigating the loss of Tuch's scoring from the roster. 

With respect to your characterization of my advocating on behalf of a massive group, that is clearly off the mark. I've listed only four players (Quinn, Kulich, and Helenius and to a lesser extent Östlund) that I don't want to see being dealt right now. You are misusing the word massive. 

When you are adding these 4 to the 9 the Sabres have locked up for at least another 4 years (plus 3 more for McLeod, Zellweger and UPL), I think massive fits.

[JohnC]

19 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Jeff Skinner, Michael Kesselring, JJ Peterka. All players this team moved on from. The lesson to be learned is not more patience, it is that sometimes it does work out (Samuelsson). You shouldn't just blanket apply that to others though. 

You are distorting what I actually stated. I cited Samuelsson and Power as examples of players where patience is the right approach. I didn’t mention the other players you brought up. 

Edited September 10 by JohnC

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

When you are adding these 4 to the 9 the Sabres have locked up for at least another 4 years (plus 3 more for McLeod, Zellweger and UPL), I think massive fits.

What multi- year contracts given do you have problems with? For the most part, in hindsight, collectively they were good deals for the organization.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are distorting what I actually stated. I sited Samuelsson and Power as examples of players where patience is the right approach. I didn’t mention the other players you brought up. 

Yea I did because you're trying to make a blanket argument. Every player should not get a 7-8yr deal. 

24 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What multi- year contracts given do you have problems with? For the most part, in hindsight, collectively they were good deals for the organization.

Jeff Skinner

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea I did because you're trying to make a blanket argument. Every player should not get a 7-8yr deal. 

Jeff Skinner

I’m not arguing that every player should get a 7-8 year deal. That’s a gross distortion of my position.

What does Skinner have to do with this discussion?
 

The question I asked referred to the current players on the roster with multi- year deals. Again, your typical practice of distortion to make your point.

Edited September 10 by JohnC

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Most people here thought that Samuelsson should be dealt because he was injury prone. That was the prevailing view. And many, if not a majority, of our posters wanted Power dealt because he wasn't a banger. Now they are core players. The lesson to be learned is to be more patient. 

I'm confident that Kulich, Östlund and Helenius are going to be good players. And I'm confident that Quinn, who was often vilified here, is going to be an important player for us and mitigating the loss of Tuch's scoring from the roster. 

With respect to your characterization of my advocating on behalf of a massive group, that is clearly off the mark. I've listed only four players (Quinn, Kulich, and Helenius and to a lesser extent Östlund) that I don't want to see being dealt right now. You are misusing the word massive. 

 

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I’m not arguing that every player should get a 7-8 year deal. That’s a gross distortion of my position.

What does Skinner have to do with this discussion?
 

The question I asked referred to the current players on the roster with multi- year deals. Again, your typical practice of distortion to make your point.

Right... I'm distorting your idea or argument that another 4 players might or do deserve long term deals. A point that you've supported by mentioning Samuelsson several times. 

And Skinner is here because... 

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

What multi- year contracts given do you have problems with? For the most part, in hindsight, collectively they were good deals for the organization.

... this comment here. 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Right... I'm distorting your idea or argument that another 4 players might or do deserve long term deals. A point that you've supported by mentioning Samuelsson several times. 

And Skinner is here because... 

... this comment here. 

Your response is not very clarifying. Yes, I am advocating to get some of young players locked up sooner rather than later, and not necessarily with 7 or 8 yr. deals.

Your Skinner reference makes no sense. He’s not on the roster. 
 

A simple question for you: What players on this team have bad extended contracts? I can’t think of any. They all seem favorable to the franchise.

[Carmel Corn]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Your response is not very clarifying. Yes, I am advocating to get some of young players locked up sooner rather than later, and not necessarily with 7 or 8 yr. deals.

Your Skinner reference makes no sense. He’s not on the roster. 
 

A simple question for you: What players on this team have bad extended contracts? I can’t think of any. They all seem favorable to the franchise.

Ummmm, Skinner’s $6 million this year wants to say “Hi, remember me?!?!”

[Archie Lee]

10 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Ummmm, Skinner’s $6 million this year wants to say “Hi, remember me?!?!”

In 2019 at age 27, Skinner signed an 8 year deal that paid him a $9 million AAV. It made him the 21st highest paid player in the NHL.  It was over 10% of the cap. 

Josh Doan’s $6.95 million AAV makes him the 154th highest paid player in the league. It is less than 7% of the cap. In 3-4 years it might barely be in the top half of player salaries. I’m not worried that giving Quinn, Kulich, and/or Östlund a Doan-like deal will turn into the Skinner contract, because the Doan-deal is nothing like the Skinner contract. The Doan deal will soon be a middle-6 forward contract, if it isn’t already. 
 

 

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Ummmm, Skinner’s $6 million this year wants to say “Hi, remember me?!?!”

Which player on this team with an extended contract has a bad contract from a franchise standpoint? Again, Skinner is not on this team and hasn't been for a couple of years. You are missing the point. That's okay. 

Edited September 10 by JohnC