If you were Jarmo, what is the most you would part with in trade for Hellebuyck?

[PromoTheRobot]

19 minutes ago, tom webster said:

You continue to say this and it’s not true. The GM wants to improve the team, he just hasn’t figured out how. Unlike you, he is not satisfied with the status quo. He had at least two deals he was ready to make. You may be excited about what the kids can do. He has tried to trade at least two.

You don't improve a team but wrecking part of it.

[tom webster]

59 minutes ago, JohnC said:

And the deals that were offered to him were unacceptable to him. That’s a fact. He values assets to the point where he is not going to undersell them. 

Yes, but that doesn’t mean he was or is happy with the status quo or that he’s hesitant to give up the guys you think are untouchable. He just hasn’t been able to make a deal. Sometimes that works but you are misrepresenting him because it fits your narrative.

[tom webster]

51 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You don't improve a team but wrecking part of it.

I’m not advocating wrecking it. The easiest way to satisfy a need to win an argument is to try and validate your opinion by assuming the other opinion is crazy. It’s not all black and white. Somewhere between improving the team and maintaining the status quo is a position that says do neither.

I think acquiring a world class goalie or a number one center greatly improves the team. I think there are guys you can give up that won’t wreck your team. As a fan, I’m hoping that whatever happens, they end up winning a cup. Hopefully there is room for that opinion on your island.

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Yes, but that doesn’t mean he was or is happy with the status quo or that he’s hesitant to give up the guys you think are untouchable. He just hasn’t been able to make a deal. Sometimes that works but you are misrepresenting him because it fits your narrative.

Few GMs are fully satisfied with the status quo of their rosters. That’s the nature of the multi-faceted position. He has explored the market in this offseason. So far he has not been satisfied with the offerings.

[PromoTheRobot]

33 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I’m not advocating wrecking it. The easiest way to satisfy a need to win an argument is to try and validate your opinion by assuming the other opinion is crazy. It’s not all black and white. Somewhere between improving the team and maintaining the status quo is a position that says do neither.

I think acquiring a world class goalie or a number one center greatly improves the team. I think there are guys you can give up that won’t wreck your team. As a fan, I’m hoping that whatever happens, they end up winning a cup. Hopefully there is room for that opinion on your island.

Most teams don't acquire a world class goalie or No.1 center. You develop them. Because teams don't move on from players that good without extenuating circumstances. And sometimes those circumstances include age and/or injury. 

Sure, I'm into Hellebuyck for a pick and a player. But when you're taking about 4 assets that include your top prospects or recently extended players, that's where I say no.

[Archie Lee]

1.) If I valued Hellebuyck as a franchise-transforming goalie who will continue to play with excellence into his late 30's and, therefore, whose acquisition could realistically lead to a championship at some point during the 5 years remaining on his contract, then I would trade McLeod, Rudolph, Lyon/Ellis, and a 2nd rd pick for Hellebuyck. In this scenario, Thompson stays at centre and the centre-depth remains strong with Norris, Kulich, Helenius, Östlund, Krebs, Carrick, Danforth, and Kozak all still in the fold. No question the loss of Tuch, McLeod, and Byram from last year is huge. But Hellebuyck would give us top 5 league goaltending, and over the course of the years remaining on his contract, we can expect our young-star-D-corps to still get to new levels, and for our young forward group to do the same. Also, there are still multiple assets that can be moved to add a top-6 forward if and when needed. While losing Rudolph from the stable would hurt, we would still have Mrtka, Strback, Kleber, McCarthy, and Bedkowski, as R shot D prospects.  

2.) If I thought Hellebuyck was a bit of a gamble and that more realistically the window for a championship was 1-2 years, then I would not offer more than Mrtka, a 1st (likely to be a late 1st), and Lyon/Ellis. In this scenario, while not conceding anything this year or next, the Sabres's are at just the beginning of a long contender runway, and acquiring a goalie this year is not the highest of priorities.

I lean more to #2, but I could be easily swayed to be all in on #1.

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

1.) If I valued Hellebuyck as a franchise-transforming goalie who will continue to play with excellence into his late 30's and, therefore, whose acquisition could realistically lead to a championship at some point during the 5 years remaining on his contract, then I would trade McLeod, Rudolph, Lyon/Ellis, and a 2nd rd pick for Hellebuyck. In this scenario, Thompson stays at centre and the centre-depth remains strong with Norris, Kulich, Helenius, Östlund, Krebs, Carrick, Danforth, and Kozak all still in the fold. No question the loss of Tuch, McLeod, and Byram from last year is huge. But Hellebuyck would give us top 5 league goaltending, and over the course of the years remaining on his contract, we can expect our young-star-D-corps to still get to new levels, and for our young forward group to do the same. Also, there are still multiple assets that can be moved to add a top-6 forward if and when needed. While losing Rudolph from the stable would hurt, we would still have Mrtka, Strback, Kleber, McCarthy, and Bedkowski, as R shot D prospects.  

2.) If I thought Hellebuyck was a bit of a gamble and that more realistically the window for a championship was 1-2 years, then I would not offer more than Mrtka, a 1st (likely to be a late 1st), and Lyon/Ellis. In this scenario, while not conceding anything this year or next, the Sabres's are at just the beginning of a long contender runway, and acquiring a goalie this year is not the highest of priorities.

I lean more to #2, but I could be easily swayed to be all in on #1.

My recommendation is to lean toward option #2 until your back hurts. 😎

[Pimlach]

...  so much hand wringing about bringing in one of the best goalies in the league. 

If Jarmo gets a deal he likes it will happen.   Otherwise we roll with last years trio.  

 

[Nacho Libre]

18 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The fans never get this stuff right so none of it matters goodnight 

Facts 

Happy to say I was in the 13%

[Nacho Libre]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

And the deals that were offered to him were unacceptable to him. That’s a fact. He values assets to the point where he is not going to undersell them. 

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

Yes, but that doesn’t mean he was or is happy with the status quo or that he’s hesitant to give up the guys you think are untouchable. He just hasn’t been able to make a deal. Sometimes that works but you are misrepresenting him because it fits your narrative.

You have to actively teach the AI

[PromoTheRobot]

56 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

...  so much hand wringing about bringing in one of the best goalies in the league. 

If Jarmo gets a deal he likes it will happen.   Otherwise we roll with last years trio.  

 

I don't believe Helly is that good. 

[Pimlach]

35 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't believe Helly is that good. 

 

who are the top 4 goalies in the NHL?   Is Hellebyuck not in that conversation?   

[Wyldnwoody44]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

who are the top 4 goalies in the NHL?   Is Hellebyuck not in that conversation?   

UPL, Puppa, Belfour and Mike Smith... Duh 😜 

I just hope Colten Chaos becomes the next star and we don't have to go through this anymore 

[oddoublee]

1 hour ago, Nacho Libre said:

Facts 

Happy to say I was in the 13%

I would love to see how I voted...my fandom is such, that I don't remember even slightly!

Edit: I read the responses and I was on team trade Levi for Connor.

I win! Or something...

Edited August 30 by oddoublee

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You don't improve a team but wrecking part of it.

No you don't, but you're not wrecking any of it if you're trading prospects and guys who didn't play last year.

So think of it this way, would you say trade Quinn for Hellybuck? I suspect you would.

Now you add 3 pieces who weren't on the roster last year or didn't play (eg. first, Mrtka, Kulich) and nothing about your team is "wrecked" and you've added one of the best goalies in the league. All you have removed from the roster is Quinn. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

No you don't, but you're not wrecking any of it if you're trading prospects and guys who didn't play last year.

So think of it this way, would you say trade Quinn for Hellybuck? I suspect you would.

Now you add 3 pieces who weren't on the roster last year or didn't play (eg. first, Mrtka, Kulich) and nothing about your team is "wrecked" and you've added one of the best goalies in the league. All you have removed from the roster is Quinn. 

A guy you are counting on to take the next step, but whatever. Ditto with Kulich. I'm better with that package than some of the nonsense I've read that includes Helenius, Benson and Doan. But I'm not sold that Hellebuyck is god's gift to goaltending.

Edited August 30 by PromoTheRobot

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

A guy you are counting on to take the next step, but whatever. Ditto with Kulich. I'm better with that package than some of the nonsense I've read that includes Helenius, Benson and Doan. But I'm not sold that Hellebuyck is god's gift to goaltending.

That's fair. I kind of view it though as an opportunity that isn't often there. Levi didn't become the guy so if we don't, we are relying on UPL (Ellis?) for the next how many years? I can see many playoff disappointments if we do that. Some new young guy we draft likely won't be ready for 3 or more years even if we find one.

Helenius, Benson, Doan no. To me those are core pieces going forward. I am not interested in moving any of them. I'm still not 100% convinced Doan will be as good as some think but I also do think he brings leadership and attitude for his age cohort and that's likely very important even if he one day ends up on the third line. All 3 of those guys are guys who compete. That's your core. 

[nfreeman]

OK, so after a weekend of the poll being up, 60 knowledgeable Sabres fans have voted.  Here are some observations:

- Not a single poster is willing to part with Helenius in order to get Helly.  Hello, @Nacho Libre.

- A significant number of posters is not interested in trading for Helly, although it is a bit less than the number of posters who want to make the trade and are willing to give up a significant package -- i.e.

Mrkta or Kleber, plus

a 2026 first-rounder, plus

a goalie, plus

Quinn or Norris or McLeod or Kulich or Östlund (with a couple of posters willing to give up 2 from this group)

- 80% of voters do not expect the Sabres to close the deal.

FWIW, if the Sabres don't get Helly, I doubt that whoever gets him gives up more than the significant package described above.

We'll see.

[jad1]

18 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

who are the top 4 goalies in the NHL?   Is Hellebyuck not in that conversation?   

No.  He's not top 5.  His stats last season were worse than UPL's and Lyon's.  He's 33, and realistically could be beginning a downslide.

His demanding a trade, poor numbers from last season, and overall average playoff performance should impact his trade value.

Jarmo should definitely squeeze Chevy here.  This shouldn't be a '3 piece deal' for the Sabres.

[Nacho Libre]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

OK, so after a weekend of the poll being up, 60 knowledgeable Sabres fans have voted.  Here are some observations:

- Not a single poster is willing to part with Helenius in order to get Helly.  Hello, @Nacho Libre.

- A significant number of posters is not interested in trading for Helly, although it is a bit less than the number of posters who want to make the trade and are willing to give up a significant package -- i.e.

Mrkta or Kleber, plus

a 2026 first-rounder, plus

a goalie, plus

Quinn or Norris or McLeod or Kulich or Östlund (with a couple of posters willing to give up 2 from this group)

- 80% of voters do not expect the Sabres to close the deal.

FWIW, if the Sabres don't get Helly, I doubt that whoever gets him gives up more than the significant package described above.

We'll see.

Nah me and dudacek at least would, as stated 

Sorry, my ballot was mail in and was clearly stricken from the record 

[SabresFan69420]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

OK, so after a weekend of the poll being up, 60 knowledgeable Sabres fans have voted.  Here are some observations:

- Not a single poster is willing to part with Helenius in order to get Helly.  Hello, @Nacho Libre.

- A significant number of posters is not interested in trading for Helly, although it is a bit less than the number of posters who want to make the trade and are willing to give up a significant package -- i.e.

Mrkta or Kleber, plus

a 2026 first-rounder, plus

a goalie, plus

Quinn or Norris or McLeod or Kulich or Östlund (with a couple of posters willing to give up 2 from this group)

- 80% of voters do not expect the Sabres to close the deal.

FWIW, if the Sabres don't get Helly, I doubt that whoever gets him gives up more than the significant package described above.

We'll see.

Is there any way to make a "consensus" package from the survey? I want to compare consensus package, vs final price (Assuming he gets moved, vs the sentiment here after whatever happens happens

[dudacek]

21 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

Facts 

Happy to say I was in the 13%

Not sure if I'm dreading or looking forward to the spring when McDavid and friends ride Levi back to the finals.

1 hour ago, jad1 said:

No.  He's not top 5.  

Its crazy to me how one down year has tossed 10 good ones out the window in the minds of so many.

Especially when most of you only watched him during the Olympics when he was amazing. 🤷‍♂️

Edited August 31 by dudacek

[Nacho Libre]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Not sure if I'm dreaded or looking forward to the spring when McDavid and friends ride Levi back to the finals.

Its crazy to me how one down year has tossed 10 good ones out the window in the minds of so many.

Especially when most of you only watched him during the Olympics when he was amazing. 🤷‍♂️

[K-9]

19 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

UPL, Puppa, Belfour and Mike Smith... Duh 😜 

I just hope Colten Chaos becomes the next star and we don't have to go through this anymore 

😂 Colten Chaos. That is the perfect description of his play style as he is a total spaz between the piles. 

[nfreeman]

22 minutes ago, Nacho Libre said:

Nah me and dudacek at least would, as stated 

Sorry, my ballot was mail in and was clearly stricken from the record 

Et tu, @dudacek?