If you were Jarmo, what is the most you would part with in trade for Hellebuyck?

[nfreeman]

I appreciate the majesty of the other Helly thread.  This one is just to put some specifics on Sabrespace's pain tolerance in a proposed trade, as well as to assess the prediction market among knowledgeable fans.

My expectation is that if the Sabres get him, the price will hurt.  It always does.

I chose Option #2 plus Kulich or Östlund, No and Vegas.

Go Sabres.

[PromoTheRobot]

The packages you float would all be record setters for a single goalie.

[Weave]

I am way too drunk to process that many options.

[transient]

I chose option #1 plus Kulich or Östlund. I may not have played the game right. I chose as what did I think Jarmo's cap was, not what my cap would be. I don't know that they're so different. I think if Jarmo were willing to make it hurt it would have gotten done already, and now I think he's at the point of moving forward with the trio from last season with eyes open for a different opportunity should it come about. I'm ok with that, as long as he's got his eyes on the crease.

I don't think a deal gets done with the Sabres for Helle, and I chose "other" because of the teams you listed, I don't think Vegas, Florida, or the Hurricanes need to trade the pieces it would take, Minnesota needs to sort out their crease with 2 goaltenders already, I'm not sure why Dallas would move on from Oettinger. Which leaves the Devils vs the rest of the league for me, so I went with the numbers. 😁

[#freejame]

Boooo private polls. Good poll anyway. 

[mjd1001]

I'm going with the last option.  There is no guarantee he will be better than what is here.  Its possible he may be, so I'd take a swing at him, but I'm not giving up significant assets for someone who is 33, signed long term, coming off of a bad season, and hasn't  been even average, let alone good, in the NHL playoffs, since he was in his 20's.

I'm not a huge UPL fan, but I'll keep a 27 year old UPL coming off of a very good season at $4.75 million per year on a team that is closer to the cap, rather than giving up a lot of assets for a 33 year old coming off of a very bad season that is costing me $8.5m per year (and with a partial no trade clause, so you may be stuck with him and his contact through him being 38 years old)

If they trade for him, he MIGHT make the team better, but he might not. I don't want to take that chance when there are so many possible negatives that come with a deal.

I THINK he would be an improvement.  But I don't think its a guarantee he would be. I also don't know for how long he would be an improvment for.  Add to that the dollar/cap cost of his contract and the Assets listed above, and the math doesn't add up to it being a good deal.

Edited August 28 by mjd1001

[msw2112]

I agree with the comment above stating that if this was going to happen, it would have happened already.  Winnipeg is asking for too much and it would be unwise for the Sabres to meet the demands.  I'd love to see Helly in the blue and gold, but not for a king's ransom.  The team was a bounce away from the conference finals last season with a young and still up-and-coming roster.  Giving up significant resources that would weaken that roster in several spots for a player that may or may not improve the goaltending is not a wise move.  Do I think that Helly is better than UPL, Lyon, and Ellis?  Sure.  But he's 33, he has a big salary, he's coming off a subpar season, and he hasn't been good in the playoffs.  If he was 28 and coming off a great season, it's a different calculus.  Obviously Jarmo agrees with me, because Helly is not a Sabre today.  I'm fairly certain that the Sabres made a fair and competitive offer to the Jets before the draft and it was rejected.  Jarmo can tell them - "here's what I'm willing to give, you have my number, give me call if you're interested."

Edited August 29 by msw2112

[dudacek]

For Hellebuyck, I’d give up 3 pieces:

1 Either Mrtka or Kleber

2 A goalie or a lottery protected 1st

3 One of McLeod Quinn Östlund or Kulich

Id also want a sweetener coming here: a lesser pick or a useful role player.

Id also trade Helenius along with any single piece from group one or two for Hellebuyck alone.

 

 

 

[Big Guava]

Nothing. I don't want a guy that is about to turn 34 coming off the worst season in years AND have to give up significant assets AND pay him a big salary.

 

That's just way too many "ANDs" for me.

Especially when he might not make any difference based on how the NHL is going with teams making the SCF with average goalies fairly regularly now.

Edited August 29 by Big Guava

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Big Guava said:

Nothing. I don't want a guy that is about to turn 34 coming off the worst season in years AND have to give up significant assets AND pay him a big salary.

When he might not make any difference based on how the NHL is going with teams making the DCF with average goalies fairly regularly now.

 

Amen brother!

[Sabres73]

People seem to keep forgetting that our combined goaltending stats were better than Helle's last year. And you want to give up a bunch of young assets for that? I don't get it. UPL if he agrees, plus two firsts is my max. Which means we wouldn't get him and that's perfectly fine.

[thewookie1]

I chose #2, but that's my max the 3 kids are untouchable in a deal related to Hellebuyck

Also the 1st must be protected

[PerreaultForever]

I'm not giving up Helenius or Rudolph. All other prospects on the table.

With this UPL no trade thing he's likely not in the equation so Lyon, 1st, Mrtka or Kleber, Quinn, Östlund or Kulich. Which normally is too much for a goalie but these are not normal times. So that's 4 pieces and a throw in back up goalie. Two of the pieces with proven NHL experience. If Winnipeg wants more than that from anybody they won't be trading him. 

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

I chose #2, but that's my max the 3 kids are untouchable in a deal related to Hellebuyck

Also the 1st must be protected

I think you can roll the dice on this to make it happen. We wouldn't be bottom 10. 

[Huckleberry]

Thing is this is all mute, UPL would have to go in seperate trade to another team.    Jets on his NTC.

 

[Scottysabres]

Question 1: Mrtka, Norris/Östlund, Ellis, 2027 and 2028 1st rdrs.

Fills the Jets desire for a center, brings the only acceptable goalie in for them as I do not believe UPL will waive, has a solid future RHD and two building blocks in the picks for the Jets. I do not see Jarmo moving Helenius and the question marks still surrounding Kulich is a risk red flag for the Jets I’d surmise. McLeod while a nice player, is most certainly not what Chevy and the Jets have in mind as a returning center imho. So while the idea is nice, I don’t see it as reasonable to the Jets needs.

Question 2: If the price does not come in to a more reasonable range than what has been reported to have been the ask, then no, I don’t see Jarmo as foolish enough to over pay. If it lands within reason, then yes, it probably happens. Jarmo was obviously looking to upgrade the position near the draft, so he is at least thinking it’s an area to be addressed.

Question 3: Carolina, Florida or San Jose. I see these 3 teams as having the assets and need.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Hellebuyck’s save % last year - .895

His last 3 seasons save % in the playoffs - . 886, .870, . 866.

This guy has already played 683 games in the NHL (RS & Playoffs).  It’s reasonable to question how much he has left in the tank.  

He also comes from a D first team.  It’s also reasonable to ask if he is a good fit for the system we play.  

I’m a no on the deal.   

If Jarmo makes the deal, UPL has to be going the other way to make the $ work.  I’d be pissed if any of Randolph, Helenius, Östlund or Kulich are included in the deal.  If he does make the deal, I’m limiting Helle to 45 RS games so that he has something left for the playoffs. 

 

Edited August 29 by GASabresIUFAN

[irregularly irregular]

JK has to get Helly at a good price or it's not worth the risk. Jarmo didn't flinch at the draft and I seriously doubt that he folds now. 

Good price is the tough part for me. I'll simplify it by stating no currently rostered Sabre goes to WPG, only players in the pipeline and draft picks not yet made.

UPL might have a bigger market than Helly given his age and contract. If Helly is acquired, moving UPL could potentially be the bigger difference maker of the two trades. 

[Sabres73]

11 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Thing is this is all mute, UPL would have to go in seperate trade to another team.    Jets on his NTC.

 

The word is "moot".

[thewookie1]

10 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Question 1: Mrtka, Norris/Östlund, Ellis, 2027 and 2028 1st rdrs.

Fills the Jets desire for a center, brings the only acceptable goalie in for them as I do not believe UPL will waive, has a solid future RHD and two building blocks in the picks for the Jets. I do not see Jarmo moving Helenius and the question marks still surrounding Kulich is a risk red flag for the Jets I’d surmise. McLeod while a nice player, is most certainly not what Chevy and the Jets have in mind as a returning center imho. So while the idea is nice, I don’t see it as reasonable to the Jets needs.

Question 2: If the price does not come in to a more reasonable range than what has been reported to have been the ask, then no, I don’t see Jarmo as foolish enough to over pay. If it lands within reason, then yes, it probably happens. Jarmo was obviously looking to upgrade the position near the draft, so he is at least thinking it’s an area to be addressed.

Question 3: Carolina, Florida or San Jose. I see these 3 teams as having the assets and need.

I wouldn’t trade that offer for Hellebuyck, thats an absurd level of overpay. Thats 4 1sts and a young goalie.

[Nacho Libre]

The fact the smartest person on the board got immediately and drastically ratio’ed tells one all they need to know about the state of the union 

- - - 

Also, Winnipeg was atrocious defensively last year (and injured on that front) and the story of their season (at least the first half) was defensive breakdowns and leaving Hellebuyck out to dry. Calling them D-first is laughably off the mark and reads like something someone read once and parroted enough times until they started to believe it. It’s like asking if McDavid would he a “stylistic fit” lol. “Don’t quit your day job” type commentary. The Jets had somewhat of a resurgence last year to end the year due to shifting to a more offensive based style.

Hellebuyck didn’t win the HART trophy by a combined defensive effort. He won the HART trophy because their strategy was a Hellebuyck effort. I understand I see and pay attention to the Jets more often due to proximity..but a lot of the stuff I’m reading is purely head-canon, as much as posts detailing the struggles of potentially losing “Randolph” are demonstrably keen on paying attention to the details 

Edited August 30 by Nacho Libre

[Porous Five Hole]

The fans never get this stuff right so none of it matters goodnight 

[Scottysabres]

13 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I wouldn’t trade that offer for Hellebuyck, thats an absurd level of overpay. Thats 4 1sts and a young goalie.

I wouldn’t either

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

The fact the smartest person on the board got immediately and drastically ratio’ed tells one all they need to know about the state of the union 

- - - 

 

The person who, so far, agrees with the state of the union is the GM. 

[tom webster]

24 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The person who, so far, agrees with the state of the union is the GM. 

You continue to say this and it’s not true. The GM wants to improve the team, he just hasn’t figured out how. Unlike you, he is not satisfied with the status quo. He had at least two deals he was ready to make. You may be excited about what the kids can do. He has tried to trade at least two.

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, tom webster said:

You continue to say this and it’s not true. The GM wants to improve the team, he just hasn’t figured out how. Unlike you, he is not satisfied with the status quo. He had at least two deals he was ready to make. You may be excited about what the kids can do. He has tried to trade at least two.

And the deals that were offered to him were unacceptable to him. That’s a fact. He values assets to the point where he is not going to undersell them.