Ducks in Cap Trouble

[Xzy89c]

Man i would love to somehow get the last year of Kreider and somehow trade zucker. He would give us something we need.

[Wyldnwoody44]

2 hours ago, Xzy89c said:

Man i would love to somehow get the last year of Kreider and somehow trade zucker. He would give us something we need.

A social security check? 😜 

[Big Guava]

Of their own doing. How Verbeek is still GM is really a mystery.

He essentially has set that team back years and will now cost them to lose significantly good players over the next several years due to his idiotic decisions and reluctance to get out in front of things.

Fireable offense. Does no good to draft well and build a great team if you mismange the cap so badly it costs you to lose many pieces you never should have lost and then greatly overpay for the ones you keep.

Edited August 20 by Big Guava

[tom webster]

They’ll be fine. Terry will start the year on LTIR, Kreider and Kilhorn have one year left, the cap is going up and they have one of the leagues richest and best owners.

Verbeek completely screwed up but they can manage it.

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, tom webster said:

They’ll be fine. Terry will start the year on LTIR, Kreider and Kilhorn have one year left, the cap is going up and they have one of the leagues richest and best owners.

Verbeek completely screwed up but they can manage it.

Pat Verbeek's a pencil necked geek!

[inkman]

48 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

Of their own doing. How Verbeek is still GM is really a mystery.

He essentially has set that team back years and will now cost them to lose significantly good players over the next several years due to his idiotic decisions and reluctance to get out in front of things.

Fireable offense. Does no good to draft well and build a great team if you mismange the cap so badly it costs you to lose many pieces you never should have lost and then greatly overpay for the ones you keep.

 

33 minutes ago, tom webster said:

They’ll be fine. Terry will start the year on LTIR, Kreider and Kilhorn have one year left, the cap is going up and they have one of the leagues richest and best owners.

Verbeek completely screwed up but they can manage it.

Yeah as much as “trouble” as they’re in, with the cap explosion on the horizon, they won’t really have to pay the piper. They decided to move a couple players, Zellweger being noteworthy, that Verbeek didn’t care for. I wish it was more punitive but alas these teams rarely pay any sort of price. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

They’ll be fine. Terry will start the year on LTIR, Kreider and Kilhorn have one year left, the cap is going up and they have one of the leagues richest and best owners.

Verbeek completely screwed up but they can manage it.

I agree with you.

As of this moment, they have almost $13m in cap space.  Gauthier needs to be signed. I'm not sure how much he is asking for, but you can probably make it work. If not, find a team and flip them a draft pick to take a mid-priced guy and clear out a little more room. I know, the argument is why would a team be willing to help them out?  Becuase you may actually WANT that mid-priced player, have room for him, and want a free draft pick and are willing to do it BEFORE someone else does it.

Then as you mentioned, Husso, Kreider, and Killorn come off the books next year. That is $15m savings plus what the cap goes up.

Now, they have some contracts that may not be bargains long term, but they are for good young players. How it may hurt them is that they may have a good team in the future, just not 'good enough' to win a cup and those contracts will be the weight that doesn't allow them to compete for mid-priced guys in the future to fill out the roster (Kinda what Toronto has gone through the last few years.)

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, tom webster said:

They’ll be fine. Terry will start the year on LTIR, Kreider and Kilhorn have one year left, the cap is going up and they have one of the leagues richest and best owners.

Verbeek completely screwed up but they can manage it.

They won't be "fine". They'll still end up with too much money on 2 players and they still have a suspect D. Even if those contracts drop off it's still tight. This is why Briere targeted them. Revenge on Gauthier too. I would not want to be them now. 

[Pimlach]

13 hours ago, Xzy89c said:

Man i would love to somehow get the last year of Kreider and somehow trade zucker. He would give us something we need.

Maybe.   I think you mean that he and Tuch are players in the same mold (except right now Tuch is fast and Kreider is not).  

But would he play in Buffalo after NY and Anaheim?   

Zucker has been a good fit in the locker room and on the ice.  
 

 

[tom webster]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

They won't be "fine". They'll still end up with too much money on 2 players and they still have a suspect D. Even if those contracts drop off it's still tight. This is why Briere targeted them. Revenge on Gauthier too. I would not want to be them now. 

All the “good” teams will have two or three $15M players. Minnesota is about to have two $17M players. Colorado won’t be far behind. Some teams, like Buffalo and Montreal were able to get ahead of the curve. It will be an interesting experiment to see if having two or three “superstars “ is better then having five or six stars.

 

And where did this “revenge for Gauthier” take root? Anaheim didn’t go after him. Philly traded him to Anaheim. Is it really “we were embarrassed we couldn’t sign a player we drafted so let’s change the narrative thing?”

[shrader]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

And where did this “revenge for Gauthier” take root? Anaheim didn’t go after him. Philly traded him to Anaheim. Is it really “we were embarrassed we couldn’t sign a player we drafted so let’s change the narrative thing?”

And they hated the ducks so much that they traded for Zegras the following year. 

[SabreFinn]

If they give a 4x4,25m contract to AJ Greer they sort of deserve to be in cap trouble. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, tom webster said:

All the “good” teams will have two or three $15M players. Minnesota is about to have two $17M players. Colorado won’t be far behind. Some teams, like Buffalo and Montreal were able to get ahead of the curve. It will be an interesting experiment to see if having two or three “superstars “ is better then having five or six stars.

 

And where did this “revenge for Gauthier” take root? Anaheim didn’t go after him. Philly traded him to Anaheim. Is it really “we were embarrassed we couldn’t sign a player we drafted so let’s change the narrative thing?”

The revenge isn't directed at Anaheim but at Gauthier. I've already seen lots of Anaheim fans calling him a "greedy piece of ......" and others about Philly was right about Gauthier blah blah blah. I'm not saying that was the prime motivator but I'm sure the Philly front office are having a good chuckle over it. 

As for all the "good" teams I guess that means you don't think the Sabres are a good team. The superstar vs. balanced roster argument has been there for a while and how has that worked out for Edmonton? Only the cap cheating and tax free states have gotten away with stacked money rosters. The superstar plan didn't work in Toronto and hasn't worked in Edmonton. If anyone thinks Gauthier and Carlsson can carry a team to the cup I'd tell them to seriously check their finances before placing that bet. I think it will all blow up down there around this and, despite him being a very good player, they will wish they hadn't matched on Carlsson.

[shrader]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

The revenge isn't directed at Anaheim but at Gauthier. I've already seen lots of Anaheim fans calling him a "greedy piece of ......" and others about Philly was right about Gauthier blah blah blah. I'm not saying that was the prime motivator but I'm sure the Philly front office are having a good chuckle over it. 

As for all the "good" teams I guess that means you don't think the Sabres are a good team. The superstar vs. balanced roster argument has been there for a while and how has that worked out for Edmonton? Only the cap cheating and tax free states have gotten away with stacked money rosters. The superstar plan didn't work in Toronto and hasn't worked in Edmonton. If anyone thinks Gauthier and Carlsson can carry a team to the cup I'd tell them to seriously check their finances before placing that bet. I think it will all blow up down there around this and, despite him being a very good player, they will wish they hadn't matched on Carlsson.

So they are getting revenge on Gauthier by emboldening him to ask for more money than he originally would have? That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

So they are getting revenge on Gauthier by emboldening him to ask for more money than he originally would have? That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. 

I think the argument would be that they are getting revenge by weakening his team.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

The revenge isn't directed at Anaheim but at Gauthier. I've already seen lots of Anaheim fans calling him a "greedy piece of ......" and others about Philly was right about Gauthier blah blah blah. I'm not saying that was the prime motivator but I'm sure the Philly front office are having a good chuckle over it. 

As for all the "good" teams I guess that means you don't think the Sabres are a good team. The superstar vs. balanced roster argument has been there for a while and how has that worked out for Edmonton? Only the cap cheating and tax free states have gotten away with stacked money rosters. The superstar plan didn't work in Toronto and hasn't worked in Edmonton. If anyone thinks Gauthier and Carlsson can carry a team to the cup I'd tell them to seriously check their finances before placing that bet. I think it will all blow up down there around this and, despite him being a very good player, they will wish they hadn't matched on Carlsson.

I made a point to mention Buffalo and Montreal will be going against the trend because they locked up their players early. Time will tell but I think Anaheim will be fine with their three “ stars forwards and two defensemen.” No point in arguing hypotheticals until they happen.

Just now, tom webster said:

I made a point to mention Buffalo and Montreal will be going against the trend because they locked up their players early. Time will tell but I think Anaheim will be fine with their three “ stars forwards and two defensemen.” No point in arguing hypotheticals until they happen.

Also, in your world they got revenge on Gauthier by ensuring he gets at least $5M more per year than he would have if they didn’t offer Carllson? I hope I’m their next target.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, shrader said:

So they are getting revenge on Gauthier by emboldening him to ask for more money than he originally would have? That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. 

By messing with his career. Is that not obvious?

[tom webster]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

By messing with his career. Is that not obvious?

How are they messing with his career? By helping make him one of the highest players in the league? I’m not trying to be difficult, I really am asking, how is offering Leo Carlsson a contract messing with Carter Gauthier? Also, do you really think an NHL franchise worrying about anything other than their own team is a good thing? 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

By messing with his career. Is that not obvious?

It's not obvious to me. Teams act in their own best interests, as do players. There's no conspiracy or attempt to inflict punishment for either side of the negotiating table. It's simply standard business in a cap system that requires a lot of tough decisions. If a team puts in effort to sabotage a player who is perceived as jilting them, they will end up sabotaging themselves because of a loss of objectivity in their decision-making. The personal way you frame these business decisions (personnel decisions) is off the mark.  

Edited August 22 by JohnC

[Stads]

I would have already assumed getting a cap on a duck would be an arduous task

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, Stads said:

I would have already assumed getting a cap on a duck would be an arduous task

5-for-5. 6 if you include a bow 

Edited August 22 by DarthEbriate

[Stads]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

5-for-5. 6 if you include a bow 

Well yeah, if you include cartoon ducks, you'll get skewed results. I'm talking the real deal

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, tom webster said:

How are they messing with his career? By helping make him one of the highest players in the league? I’m not trying to be difficult, I really am asking, how is offering Leo Carlsson a contract messing with Carter Gauthier? Also, do you really think an NHL franchise worrying about anything other than their own team is a good thing? 

Get back to me when Cutter's not at their training camp and they still haven't signed a contract. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

It's not obvious to me. Teams act in their own best interests, as do players. There's no conspiracy or attempt to inflict punishment for either side of the negotiating table. It's simply standard business in a cap system that requires a lot of tough decisions. If a team puts in effort to sabotage a player who is perceived as jilting them, they will end up sabotaging themselves because of a loss of objectivity in their decision-making. The personal way you frame these business decisions (personnel decisions) is off the mark.  

No, what I'm saying is they knew Gauthier was a selfish prick so they knew if they offer sheeted Carlsson big (over pay extreme) that Gauthier would want money like that too and thus they hoped that would play into the situation and Anaheim might let Carlsson go. It was a calculation. Anaheim may not have made that calculation and now has to deal with Gauthier.

I mean look, how would you feel if a young Sabre has a good season. One season. Say 30-40 goals. Now he wants 15 million. What would you say to that? It's a horrible situation for Anaheim and I'm 100% sure the Philly management is indeed having a laugh over it just because, and because they are Philly. Every been? I hear it's always Sunny there. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

No, what I'm saying is they knew Gauthier was a selfish prick so they knew if they offer sheeted Carlsson big (over pay extreme) that Gauthier would want money like that too and thus they hoped that would play into the situation and Anaheim might let Carlsson go. It was a calculation. Anaheim may not have made that calculation and now has to deal with Gauthier.

I mean look, how would you feel if a young Sabre has a good season. One season. Say 30-40 goals. Now he wants 15 million. What would you say to that? It's a horrible situation for Anaheim and I'm 100% sure the Philly management is indeed having a laugh over it just because, and because they are Philly. Every been? I hear it's always Sunny there. 

Respectfully, we simply have two different world views. The NHL is a 🥅 hockey business that includes competing factions of employees/players and owners/management who make deals that suit their best interests. Sometimes the competing interests coincide, and sometimes not.
 

It seems to me that you are injecting a degree of sentimentality that doesn’t exist in today’s professional hockey 🥅 world. The issue isn’t whether that is a good thing or not as it is the system that exists for all parties.

On this particular topic we are riding on different buses that are going in a different direction. That’s okay.