Östlund, Kulich, Helenius: who helps the most this year?

[dudacek]

The way I see it, the Sabres have six top 9 forwards in ink (Thompson, Norris, McLeod, Benson, Doan, Quinn) and two more in pencil (Krebs, Zucker)

Which means there is at least one, and as many as three, top 9 spots available.

Battling for those spots will be Helenius, Kulich and Östlund.

Which of the three makes the most impact, and what do you expect from the other two?

Edited August 16 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Noah Östlund: I only have two questions about Östlund: what is his offensive upside; and can he stay healthy long enough for us to see it?

I guess I understand why some still consider him a prospect, but did you watch the games and listen to the coaches? There is no way this kid isn’t a full-time NHLer this season. He’s just so smart and diligent, he competes so hard and he’s got the feet and the hands to take advantage. He looked very good with Doan and Norris, with Benson and Helenius, and really with just about anyone. He’s the type of guy who makes people around him better, regardless of how he’s deployed.

I’m curious if he can force his way onto either special teams unit this year, because he seems to have the skill set. I really think his floor is McLeod and I’m looking forward to seeing if he can reach that as soon as this year. That said, he’s probably the least likely of the three to become a first liner.

Jiri Kulich: Kulich had a procedure done to correct his clot in March, resumed skating in April, and said in May he “can do pretty much everything right now”.  If that remained the case, five months of rehab certainly should have him ready for October. He seems to think that will be the case and the Sabres are talking like they concur.

I don’t see any world where a healthy Kulich isn’t on the ice opening night and scoring 20 goals this season. Sometimes I think people forget he was pencilled into the top six to start the year and that he was playing over 16 minutes a night before being sidelined with the clot. The Sabres have talked up his dedication to defence and their faith that he is an NHL centre. He certainly comes across as very coachable.

It’s hard to predict where he fits, but Lindy’s love of his play between Benson and Tage seems to be the most likely starting point. If he sticks there, he probably leads the trio of kids in points.

Konsta Helenius: He’s proven himself an elite player at the AHL level at 19, and acquitted himself well in the NHL playoffs.

He’s also looking at a very crowded group of players above him in order to become an NHL regular this year. Very curious if he can be the player a lot of fans think he will become, and whether that can manifest itself in a rookie year that has him in the Calder Trophy conversation. Everybody notes the swagger and I think he's shown enough to earn a real opportunity.

He’s a talented, confident kid. But with the team's depth, he’ll have to earn his opportunities. I think he has the most upside of the three but he is also shown the least at the NHL level and is starting the race in third place.

Edited August 16 by dudacek

[Ctaeth]

Östlund will have the biggest impact this year. Just because, if healthy, he feels likely to play all of his games in the nhl bc the coaching staff seems to have a lot of faith in his game.

Kulich and helenius could be better than Östlund in the long run.  But I suspect they will have to earn everything they get this season, as opposed to Östlund who feels penciled in to start already.  Helenius, in particular, feels likely to start in rochester and then be the first injury call up...not because he is the worst of the three, but bc I think the coaching staff is likely to take age into the equation 

[#freejame]

I feel pretty confident that Kulich is going to be our 1C most of the year. He’s got 20 goals in his last 80 games if I’m not mistaken. I don’t think missing time is and much an issue as others. 

Helenius is going to be the best of the three but he’s also got the least seasoning to him so far. It might take him a while to get consistent, but he’ll show flashes of being the best of the three. Next year he’s easily #1. 

Östlund will probably be the most consistent through the entire year. I’m not positive what to make of him. I think he’s solid, but if we can get an upgrade at 1C or Hellebuyck with him in the deal, I don’t hesitate to do it. 

[Taro T]

Barring a big move, do anticipate Kulich starts the year as the 1C.  Will be interesting to see if he can keep that role.  Have said this before, but based on the way Östlund plays in his own end and his playmaking ability, would really like to see him get a chance at that role.  Again, barring a big move.

And, as have also said before, don't believe Kulich would lose the 1C role because of a lack of offense but rather because he and Thompson were REALLY bad against true top liners when they were together on the Sabres top line.  Expect Östlund will be a lot better at that aspect of the game and also expect that if he's teamed with Benson and Thompson that he'll be getting the puck to Tage in some really high danger areas and can also see him springing Benny with some sweet give and goes after Benny digs the puck away from the boards and then gets a clean lane to the net receiving the return pass.

And all that said, expecting sometime in the next 2-3 years (and maybe even starting this year) for Helenius to show he's the best of the 3.  He just has that "it" factor.

[JohnC]

In the long run I think that Helenius will be the best player of the trio. (As noted by @Taro T) What makes me excited about this trio is that individually they have different skill sets. I'm aware that I annoy some people by repeatedly arguing not to deal any of this trio. But I strongly believe that all three of these fellows are ready to contribute this season. And in the not too distant future they are all going to be primary players for us. In my view, Östlund is going to be a solid player while Helenius and Kulich are eventually going to be impact players. My guess is that Kulich is going to make the bigger impact this year. And don't get me started on Quinn!    

[Eleven]

I have REALLY high expectations for Helenius.  Maybe I'm foolish.  But I just think he's going to explode like Benson did.

Kulich is going to be a solid center if healthy.

Östlund is going to be a great complementary piece.

 

It was really tough to rank them, but that's what I did.

After years of "don't trade the kids," it's time to dress the kids.  Can't really have it both ways.

[Weave]

I expect Kulich will start as 1C, but it will be a sort of revolving role. I think overall he”ll retain that role longer than any else.

I like Kulich.  Seems like the kind of gamer we need.  I can’t really put my finger on it, but I think has enough “it” to be an acceptable stopgap 1C. His time spent on the top line should reault in better counting stats than the other two.

Ultimately, I suspect among the players in our system, Helenius is best equipped to hold the 1C role longer term, but his time isn’t now.  Its coming, but its not here.

I like Östlund, and for this season (or most of it anyway) he’ll be above Helenius on the depth chart, but he’s not staying there long term.

[nfreeman]

I said Östlund #1, Kulich #2 and Helenius #3 this year.

Long-term, I think it will be Helenius, then Östlund, then Kulich.  I think Kulich has some excellent physical tools, but Östlund and Helenius have more well-rounded games and higher hockey IQ.  

I'm also not that convinced by Kulich putting up good numbers on a terrible team 2 years ago.  I do not expect him to take the 1C role.  I do expect him to play a consistent top 9 role once he gets back up to speed and wouldn't be surprised if he scored at a 25+ goal pace once that happens.

I'm a bit concerned about Östlund's ability to stay healthy.  That factor will be put to the test this season.

As far as that goes, Kulich just missed essentially an entire season, which is another reason not to expect too much this year.  OTOH, Victor Wembenyama missed most of an NBA season with a blood clot 2 seasons ago, then came back last season and was a top-3ish player in the league.

As for Helenius, I think the sky is the limit.  I just don't think it's wise to expect too much too soon.  Benson showed plenty of signs but didn't really come on until his 3rd season.

I am pretty psyched about all 3 of these kids, to be sure.

[Crusader1969]

The big 2 questions - 

 is Kulich healthy and can Östlund stay healthy. 
 

if yes to both, I think all 3 will have significant impact on this season 

[PerreaultForever]

I really think Kulich is the one going to Rochester. I know he was here first so to speak but a full year off breaks your rhythm and timing and basically everything so easing him back is the smarter approach. He'll be back with injuries or late season but initially I think he needs the reps at the lower level. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

The big 2 questions - 

 is Kulich healthy and can Östlund stay healthy. 
 

if yes to both, I think all 3 will have significant impact on this season 

Kulich is healthy. The clot issue was resolved last year. As far as Östlund or any other player staying healthy, no one can answer that. 

Edited August 17 by JohnC

[SABRES 0311]

Kulich missed a lot of time. I’m sure he’ll get a good amount of ice time in the preseason but still. I’d guess it takes him until mid November to become a top six caliber offensive threat.

[LGR4GM]

Konsta will have an up and down 1st year in all likelihood. He will be a 20yr old playing a long, overly drawn out, NHL season with everything that comes with it. I am not saying he can't succeed, just that he will probably ebb and flow like most young guys. If he manages 35-40pts this year I would be very very happy. I think Kulich and Östlund at 22yrs old just have a that little extra age and experience (life and hockey) to stay in front of Konsta. I think Kulich will be the best of the bench and I also worry about Östlund's ability to not get nicked up as the season goes on. I see them in this order for this season, Kulich (50ishpts), Östlund (45ishpts), and Helenius (35ishpts) but next season, I think Helenius might overtake them. 

[French Collection]

Like others I think Helenius will be the best of the 3, eventually. Speed, drive, shooting, IQ, he has a lot of tools.

Kulich has something to prove and is physically more developed so I expect him to be the best this year. He can score goals at this level with a lethal shot and seems willing to go net front. He may end up as a winger and a PP weapon to provide options other than  TNT one timers.

Östlund’s ceiling is lower imo, but he has a more well rounded game that will be suited for the middle six. He is a better playmaker and could get some quality PP time from this skill.

[Ctaeth]

Informal polls:

Do we think Helenius starts with the Sabres or Rochester?

Where does Kulich start?  If on the Sabres, which line?

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, Ctaeth said:

Informal polls:

Do we think Helenius starts with the Sabres or Rochester?

Where does Kulich start?  If on the Sabres, which line?

I think injuries will ultimately be the biggest factor for Helenius.

If everyone is healthy and Kulich picks up where he left off, then Konsta to Rochester.

But Konsta will be the first injury replacement and I suspect once he’s playing he won’t go back down.

Lindy will almost certainly try Kulich with Tage and Benny to start. As I said elsewhere, he is on the team unless he sucks.

Edited August 17 by dudacek

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I think injuries will ultimately be the biggest factor for Helenius.

If everyone is healthy and Kulich picks up where he left off, then Konsta to Rochester.

But Konsta will be the first injury replacement and I suspect once he’s playing he won’t go back down.

Lindy will almost certainly try Kulich with Tage and Benny to start. As I said elsewhere, he is on the team unless he sucks.

Yep.  Kulich and Östlund have spots pencilled in that they might lose.  Helenius has to beat somebody in the top 9 out and only has training camp and 2-4 preseason games to do so.  It's a tall ask for any of the 3 to alter their status with that little runway.

But when Helenius comes back up, he'll put his name in the lineup in magic marker.

[JohnC]

Just now, dudacek said:

I think injuries will ultimately be the biggest factor for Helenius.

If everyone is healthy and Kulich picks up where he left off, then Konsta to Rochester.

But Konsta will be the first injury replacement and U suspect once he’s playing he won’t go back down.

Lindy will almost certainly try Kulich with Tage and Benny to start. As I said elsewhere, he is on the team unless he sucks.

If Kulich plays on the first line, is he going to be on the wing with Tage at center or Kulich at center with Tage at wing? 

Another option at the 1C position is having Norris starting at the 1C slot with Tage at wing. 

Lindy has a challenge figuring out what his line combinations will be. That's what make this upcoming season so intriguing. 

[JohnC]

Just now, Taro T said:

Yep.  Kulich and Östlund have spots pencilled in that they might lose.  Helenius has to beat somebody in the top 9 out and only has training camp and 2-4 preseason games to do so.  It's a tall ask for any of the 3 to alter their status with that little runway.

But when Helenius comes back up, he'll put his name in the lineup in magic marker.

Helenius has experience playing with older players. When I watched him at the end of the last season he played as if he belonged. Seeing how this young trio plays makes me look forward to this upcoming season.  

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

If Kulich plays on the first line, is he going to be on the wing with Tage at center or Kulich at center with Tage at wing? 

Another option at the 1C position is having Norris starting at the 1C slot with Tage at wing. 

Lindy has a challenge figuring out what his line combinations will be. That's what make this upcoming season so intriguing. 

When Thompson and Kulich have been together, can't recall a single instance of it where Tage was the C and Jiri was the W.  Fully expect Kulich the C if he's on Tage's line.

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Kulich plays on the first line, is he going to be on the wing with Tage at center or Kulich at center with Tage at wing? 

Another option at the 1C position is having Norris starting at the 1C slot with Tage at wing. 

Lindy has a challenge figuring out what his line combinations will be. That's what make this upcoming season so intriguing. 

Lindy has shown his preference to be Kulich C, Tage RW, don’t you think?

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Lindy has shown his preference to be Kulich C, Tage RW, don’t you think?

The issue for me is that Kulich is more of a shooter than a passer, as is Tage. That's why Helenius might be a better fit as the center. The issue then becomes is Helenius ready for that heightened role? Right now, I can't say. Although Norris might be more of a shooting center than a distributing center, he's a more experienced player for a first line role. There are so many combinations to consider. And that is a testament to the accumulated talent on the roster. At least on paper, a lot of line combinations make sense. 

[#freejame]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Lindy has shown his preference to be Kulich C, Tage RW, don’t you think?

Seems like every opportunity Lindy gets to move Tage from center he takes it. I don’t think Ruff views him as a center at all. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The issue for me is that Kulich is more of a shooter than a passer, as is Tage. That's why Helenius might be a better fit as the center. The issue then becomes is Helenius ready for that heightened role? Right now, I can't say. Although Norris might be more of a shooting center than a distributing center, he's a more experienced player for a first line role. There are so many combinations to consider. And that is a testament to the accumulated talent on the roster. At least on paper, a lot of line combinations make sense. 

Tage may be more of a shooter than a passer, but he had 41 assists last year.

Only 18 NHL centres had more.