Konsta Helenius: To what level will the Hell Moose be unleashed in 26/27?

[pi2000]

If he stays healthy and sees meaningful power play minutes he could put up 50-60pts.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

Maybe if the goal was having a decent shot of breaking even re: last year. Where possible, I’d strive for a *good* shot to be *improved*. Get a little bit better every day is a motto I’ve heard used that I’ve liked. Might have rang hollow as a basement team but as a playoff team, it’s a good place to start.

This, again, seems like a plausible way to maintain a status quo, but one relying on non-guaranteed growth and thus risky. Presumably acceptable to Jarmo because we haven’t torpedoed the future in fact we’ve, on paper, strengthened it 

I think his philosophy makes intrinsic sense. His moves seems intrinsically appropriate to it, he may have even excelled at it owing to taking advantage of a sellers market where a team was willing to pony a first for Byram. So far a fair bit of the strategy is rubbing me the wrong way, as strategies that place a high priority on the future usually do. But that’s my bias. Upon separating it from the narrative of KA and to a lesser but still substantial degree Botterill, there’s no objective reason it needs to fail

I think I'm kinda with @Weave on the way the summer unfolded. 

What happened is less a strategy and more making the decisions he thought were best given the situations with Tuch, Byram and Hellebuyck and what he has on his roster.

Still think he wants to flip futures for an upper roster piece if and when a deal he likes presents itself.

[Nacho Libre]

Just now, dudacek said:

I think I'm kinda with @Weave on the way the summer unfolded. 

What happened is less a strategy and more making the decisions he thought were best given the situations with Tuch, Byram and Hellebuyck and what he has on his roster.

Still think he wants to flip futures for an upper roster piece if and when a deal he likes presents itself.

The more things change 

WCJHED

[dudacek]

Just now, Nacho Libre said:

The more things change 

WCJHED

i know this was rhetorical, but looking around the league:

• He could have signed Tuch and let Krebs and Malenstyn walk
• He could have kept Bo Byram
• He could have (probably) traded Jack Quinn and pick 20 and a sweetener for Jordan Kyrou
• He could have (probably) traded pick 20 for Marcus Petterson
• He could have (probably) traded pick 20 and a moderate asset for Vincent Trochek
• He could have traded a 3rd and a B prospect for Brandon Carlo
• He could have (probably) traded pick 4 for Mason McTavish or William Eklund
• He could have (probably) traded two firsts for JJ Peterka or Pavel Dorofeyev

Among other opportunities. In case anyone is really wondering

[Nacho Libre]

Just now, dudacek said:

i know this was rhetorical, but looking around the league:

• He could have signed Tuch and let Krebs and Malenstyn walk
• He could have kept Bo Byram
• He could have (probably) traded Jack Quinn and pick 20 and a sweetener for Jordan Kyrou
• He could have (probably) traded pick 20 for Marcus Petterson
• He could have (probably) traded pick 20 and a moderate asset for Vincent Trochek
• He could have traded a 3rd and a B prospect for Brandon Carlo
• He could have (probably) traded pick 4 for Mason McTavish or William Eklund
• He could have (probably) traded two firsts for JJ Peterka or Pavel Dorofeyev

Among other opportunities. In case anyone is really wondering

Nice. I do think at the end of the day it can be that he didn’t address the team in all the ways he wanted to because of more than one thing. I think some things were probably unrealistically possible and some things went, or have gone incomplete because of an adherence to the balanced approach he’s talked about 

Little from column A little from column B 

[Doohickie]

9 hours ago, inkman said:

10 hours ago, K-9 said:

Hellonwheels 

But they play on skates...

 

[SabreFinn]

8 hours ago, Big Guava said:

I'm in Scandanavia right now and have been looking for moose all over the place and have been striking out.

I also drove by Dahlin's hometown of Trollhåttan, apparently it's like Manhattan for trolls 😂

What are your Scandinavia plans except mooses and trolls?

[Big Guava]

4 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

What are your Scandinavia plans except mooses and trolls?

Most of the trip is already done, back in Stockholm for the last 2 days before flying home.

Stockholm -> Linkoping -> Oslo -> Fjords -> Gothenburg -> Copenhagen -> Hamburg -> Vaxjo -> Stockholm was the trip over 3 weeks.

[...]

This is tiring. No matter what the topic is, it devolves into a debate over whether the Sabres made the right moves over the summer, with the undertone that Sabres fans are stupid for accepting the situation. 

At least evolve the tangent and discuss how fans ought to respond to the outrage that this summer has become. Boycott? Email campaign? Billboards? Pitchforks and torches?

[SabreFinn]

8 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

Most of the trip is already done, back in Stockholm for the last 2 days before flying home.

Stockholm -> Linkoping -> Oslo -> Fjords -> Gothenburg -> Copenhagen -> Hamburg -> Vaxjo -> Stockholm was the trip 

Hope you enjoyed your trip. Haven't been to all of those cities myself but Gothenburg and Hamburg I liked a lot. Stockholm is beautiful but too much people for me. 

[Big Guava]

1 hour ago, SabreFinn said:

Hope you enjoyed your trip. Haven't been to all of those cities myself but Gothenburg and Hamburg I liked a lot. Stockholm is beautiful but too much people for me. 

Stockholm is actually quite a bit smaller than Hamburg. Metro is around 2.2 million versus 5.1 million for Hamburg.

[SabreFinn]

9 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

Stockholm is actually quite a bit smaller than Hamburg. Metro is around 2.2 million versus 5.1 million for Hamburg.

I know, but the inner city felt more crowded in Stockholm, it might be because of what time I've visited, Hamburg was in spring, Stockholm mostly summertime.

[Weave]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

i know this was rhetorical, but looking around the league:

• He could have signed Tuch and let Krebs and Malenstyn walk
• He could have kept Bo Byram
• He could have (probably) traded Jack Quinn and pick 20 and a sweetener for Jordan Kyrou
• He could have (probably) traded pick 20 for Marcus Petterson
• He could have (probably) traded pick 20 and a moderate asset for Vincent Trochek
• He could have traded a 3rd and a B prospect for Brandon Carlo
• He could have (probably) traded pick 4 for Mason McTavish or William Eklund
• He could have (probably) traded two firsts for JJ Peterka or Pavel Dorofeyev

Among other opportunities. In case anyone is really wondering

Yeah, saying Jarmo is making a silk purse out of a pigs ear isn’t absolving him.  Its acknowledging that he didn’t succeed in making the moves he wanted.  There were other moves he could have made.  We’ll see soon enough if his decision to stand pat after missing on at least 2 swings hurts the team.

[Big Guava]

3 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I know, but the inner city felt more crowded in Stockholm, it might be because of what time I've visited, Hamburg was in spring, Stockholm mostly summertime.

Well, Stockholm has a ton of tourists in the summer so it's possible that was a lot of it too.

We are going on the Stockholm Ghost Tour in Gamla Stan tonight and I'm pretty pumped!

[ska-T Chitown]

17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

one of these things is not like the other

 

Careful, or that Broons fan who lurks here will get upset and tell you both how tough and up and coming they AND why they are not so good (so we don't think the Broons are his #1)

[GASabresIUFAN]

I’m not expecting him to make the team out of camp.  He’ll be the first call up when injury hits and stay the rest of the season, like Östlund last year or Pommers back in the day.  
 

That said, if he makes the team, he’ll likely be in a middle six role.  I think we are looking at a 35 - 40 pt season with most of the points coming in the second half as he becomes more comfortable.  

As a reference Östlund had 27 pts in 60 games as a rookie (age 21), JJP had 32 in 77 games (age 20), Quinn 37 in 75 games (age 21) and Kulich 24 pts in 60 games (age 20).  Benny had his 20 year old season, his 3rd in the NHL, last year and put up 43 pts in 65 games.  He had 30 pts as a rookie.  

Is he a better prospect than the 4 guys who debuted recently around his age who played at a 30-40 pt pace over a full season as rookies?  I don’t think he is, but he is playing on a more skilled team and his speed is a huge weapon.  

FYI: Vanek had 48 pts as a rookie at age 21 twenty-one years ago.  Roy had 19 pts in 49 games at age 20.  Max had 34 pts in 65 games as a 20 year old rookie. 

 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m not expecting him to make the team out of camp.  He’ll be the first call up when injury hits and stay the rest of the season, like Östlund last year or Pommers back in the day.  
 

That said, if he makes the team, he’ll likely be in a middle six role.  I think we are looking at a 35 - 40 pt season with most of the points coming in the second half as he becomes more comfortable.  

As a reference Östlund had 27 pts in 60 games as a rookie (age 21), JJP had 32 in 77 games (age 20), Quinn 37 in 75 games (age 21) and Kulich 24 pts in 60 games (age 20).  Benny had his 20 year old season, his 3rd in the NHL, last year and put up 43 pts in 65 games.  He had 30 pts as a rookie.  

Is he a better prospect than the 4 guys who debuted recently around his age who played at a 30-40 pt pace over a full season as rookies?  I don’t think he is, but he is playing on a more skilled team and his speed is a huge weapon.  

FYI: Vanek had 48 pts as a rookie at age 21 twenty-one years ago.  Roy had 19 pts in 49 games at age 20.  Max had 34 pts in 65 games as a 20 year old rookie. 

 

That would mean we are talking about Quinn, Peterka, Kulich, Östlund. I suppose we should rank them. 

Quinn, as much as I think this is divisive he was the most talented of the 5 players mentioned. I really wish we knew what his career would be to date with that Achilles injury. I still believe there is a 30g, 40a player in there. Quinn has the best shot of the group. 

Helenius, he really is 2nd for me in terms of talent. There is so much evidence at the WJ, AHL, and Liiga level that he is a cut above the rest of the list. He has the best well rounded game in this group. He is going to be a handful for teams on the cycle and rush.

Peterka, he put up 68pts in his AHL season. I thought he and Quinn were going to light the league on fire. So far it has been a mixed bag. Rush offense for days.

Kulich, was great in the AHL and probably would have had a breakout year without blood clots. Curious how he bounces back. That shot is ever so close to Quinn's but he's a bit of a mystery right now. Going off of previous stuff, he need some more variety in his game. 

Östlund, gotta get bigger and stronger still but everything we saw from him down the stretch is great. Still I would have considered him a touch below the rest of this list at the same age-ish. Probably the best playmaker of the group, if the body ever matures he could be special. 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

That would mean we are talking about Quinn, Peterka, Kulich, Östlund. I suppose we should rank them. 

Quinn, as much as I think this is divisive he was the most talented of the 5 players mentioned. I really wish we knew what his career would be to date with that Achilles injury. I still believe there is a 30g, 40a player in there. Quinn has the best shot of the group. 

Helenius, he really is 2nd for me in terms of talent. There is so much evidence at the WJ, AHL, and Liiga level that he is a cut above the rest of the list. He has the best well rounded game in this group. He is going to be a handful for teams on the cycle and rush.

Peterka, he put up 68pts in his AHL season. I thought he and Quinn were going to light the league on fire. So far it has been a mixed bag. Rush offense for days.

Kulich, was great in the AHL and probably would have had a breakout year without blood clots. Curious how he bounces back. That shot is ever so close to Quinn's but he's a bit of a mystery right now. Going off of previous stuff, he need some more variety in his game. 

Östlund, gotta get bigger and stronger still but everything we saw from him down the stretch is great. Still I would have considered him a touch below the rest of this list at the same age-ish. Probably the best playmaker of the group, if the body ever matures he could be special. 

 

Given that list I’d questimate that Konsta’s rookie year would be similar to Quinn and Peterka with somewhere between 35-40 pts.  

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

That would mean we are talking about Quinn, Peterka, Kulich, Östlund. I suppose we should rank them. 

Quinn, as much as I think this is divisive he was the most talented of the 5 players mentioned. I really wish we knew what his career would be to date with that Achilles injury. I still believe there is a 30g, 40a player in there. Quinn has the best shot of the group. 

Helenius, he really is 2nd for me in terms of talent. There is so much evidence at the WJ, AHL, and Liiga level that he is a cut above the rest of the list. He has the best well rounded game in this group. He is going to be a handful for teams on the cycle and rush.

Peterka, he put up 68pts in his AHL season. I thought he and Quinn were going to light the league on fire. So far it has been a mixed bag. Rush offense for days.

Kulich, was great in the AHL and probably would have had a breakout year without blood clots. Curious how he bounces back. That shot is ever so close to Quinn's but he's a bit of a mystery right now. Going off of previous stuff, he need some more variety in his game. 

Östlund, gotta get bigger and stronger still but everything we saw from him down the stretch is great. Still I would have considered him a touch below the rest of this list at the same age-ish. Probably the best playmaker of the group, if the body ever matures he could be special. 

 

Great time to relive Konsta’s golden goal in the world championships this summer 

 

[#freejame]

I’d be surprised if he is 61-70 pts this season but I voted for it anyway because who cares. He’s going to be very good one way or the other

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That would mean we are talking about Quinn, Peterka, Kulich, Östlund. I suppose we should rank them. 

Quinn, as much as I think this is divisive he was the most talented of the 5 players mentioned. I really wish we knew what his career would be to date with that Achilles injury. I still believe there is a 30g, 40a player in there. Quinn has the best shot of the group. 

Helenius, he really is 2nd for me in terms of talent. There is so much evidence at the WJ, AHL, and Liiga level that he is a cut above the rest of the list. He has the best well rounded game in this group. He is going to be a handful for teams on the cycle and rush.

Peterka, he put up 68pts in his AHL season. I thought he and Quinn were going to light the league on fire. So far it has been a mixed bag. Rush offense for days.

Kulich, was great in the AHL and probably would have had a breakout year without blood clots. Curious how he bounces back. That shot is ever so close to Quinn's but he's a bit of a mystery right now. Going off of previous stuff, he need some more variety in his game. 

Östlund, gotta get bigger and stronger still but everything we saw from him down the stretch is great. Still I would have considered him a touch below the rest of this list at the same age-ish. Probably the best playmaker of the group, if the body ever matures he could be special. 

 

One nice thing about all the players is that they all skate so well with Helenius being the fastest.  

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One nice thing about all the players is that they all skate so well with Helenius being the fastest.  

Sabres under Forton/Ventura seem to gravitate to a type: smart, relentless forwards and big, smooth defencemen

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Great time to relive Konsta’s golden goal in the world championships this summer 

 

He had a great tourney for Finland and it didn’t take him long to get first line minutes with Barkov. Good company to say the least. 

[SabreFinn]

7 hours ago, Big Guava said:

Well, Stockholm has a ton of tourists in the summer so it's possible that was a lot of it too.

We are going on the Stockholm Ghost Tour in Gamla Stan tonight and I'm pretty pumped!

Hope you get to meet some ghosts. Don’t know what sort of music you are in to, but to all fans of harder rock I recommend swedish band Ghost, a bit darker sort of rock.

The archipelago in Stockholm is beautiful by the way if you haven't already visited.

[Big Guava]

21 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

Hope you get to meet some ghosts. Don’t know what sort of music you are in to, but to all fans of harder rock I recommend swedish band Ghost, a bit darker sort of rock.

The archipelago in Stockholm is beautiful by the way if you haven't already visited.

We went to Vaxholm, if that is the area you were talking about?