The Re-Litigation of... The Brayden McNabb Trade

[DarthEbriate]

It's summer (almost, it's the Cup Final and the Sabres aren't playing). It's Sabrespace. What else is there to do but to idly ponder things?

 

I merely commented (albeit snarkily) on McNabb's 3-assist game 1 of the Final and it led to some good discussions.

So here we are:

885 GP    38-153-191   +160
120 GP     6-27-33   +21 in the playoffs

Career 19:04 ATOI    (19:50 over the last nine years) and barely a spot of it on the powerplay. Top-4 stud. The perfect responsible, plays-the-right-way complement to: Ristolainen, Montour, Dahlin (who was playing the right side in Sweden), etc. The role model for a Mattias Samuelsson as an heir apparent.

[DarthEbriate]

10 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

And Buffalo drafted him, go figure. He was the type of player Buffalo needed all these years 

100% this.

I had some notes (over a year ago now... it must've come up in one GDT or another) about a McNabb Experiment --- what does the franchise look like without that trade. Just adding McNabb, who was on the cusp of rock-solid defending, to that roster. He was the right age, he was just a touch older than the forwards they were banking on getting (Reinhart/McEichel) as a result of the tank...  A young cornerstone. And they traded him with picks for futures.

3 hours ago, St. Pete Gogolak said:

The McNabb trade was so, so bad.  McNabb and two seconds (one of which was turned into Eric Cernak) for Hudson Fasching.  Always contended that former GMTM was the worst general manager in Buffalo history.  Maybe that’s an exaggeration but he’s in the running.

Hudson Fasching was an intriguing prospect at the time. All heart on the ice. Heartwarming backstory off the ice. Recently starting putting it together on the scoresheet. But he wasn't some can't miss prospect or top-round talent. He was a wildcard.

The 2nd picks, you could argue GMTM would've wasted anyway (see Karabacek, Cornel, ... um... Lemieux)

And what did Deslauriers add that Foligno didn't already provide?

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

GMs make a lot of personnel decisions that over time make you think: WTF were you thinking!  When you look back you say to yourself: What if we did this instead of that? Where would we now be? You and others are pointing out the McNabb deal to demonstrate your point. But in reality, not all deals work out as well as you would have wanted. The fairer way to look at an organization's performance is the body of work. If you add to the McNabb discussion the Eichel, Reinhart, and to a lesser extent Ullmark, then it becomes clear that the accumulation of compounding bad decisions set us back.  It was our own organizational ineptitude over an extended period of time that weighed this franchise down. 

The Sabres are now reasonably well situation from a roster standpoint. And it demonstrated that point from how it played last season. I just hope that this once rickety franchise recognizes where it is at and builds on it instead of outsmarting itself for the quick fix. Sometimes being prudent and cautious is better than trying to being bold and ending up outsmarting yourself. 

Yup. It took over a decade -- just to get back to a single playoff appearance. Yes, things appear positive, but given the Return of Barkov, the Sabres could just as easily miss the playoffs in 2026-2027 because of the insane strength of their own division.

Granted -- as soon as GMTM was out and JBott/Housley wanted to run a Nashville-styled run-and-gun d-corps such that we're running now, they'd have shipped McNabb out. But by then, maybe he fetches you a pretty good trade return. 1st and a young/blocked puck-moving D-man type. 

1 hour ago, inkman said:

I can’t keep reliving these failures. Moving out McNabb & Foligno set this franchise back an immeasurable amount. They took every fiber of a backbone and ripped it out of the franchise and never came close to replacing it. Every time I see their names, it gets me super irate. Why would any GM do this to a city that values blue collar players as much as Buffalo. Just maddening. 

Relitigation Thread!

And yes... it's like GMTM added glue guys in Fasching and Deslauriers. But he had them already in McNabb and Foligno.

JBott disemboweling the "right-way-to-play" guys later: Deslauriers traded for nothing. Foligno for the ghost of Pominville. Imagine if when folks jumped on Eichel it wasn't Reinhart being the only guy to help out.

54 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Foligno in particular is the one that just kills me.

They all add up.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://www.sabrespace.com/2014/03/06/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/hockey/2014/03/05/rochester-americans-brayden-mcnabb-nicolas-deslauriers-rostislav-klesla/6094553/

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:42 PM by \GoBillsInDallas/

[Eleven]

16 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

https://www.sabrespace.com/2014/03/06/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/hockey/2014/03/05/rochester-americans-brayden-mcnabb-nicolas-deslauriers-rostislav-klesla/6094553/

 

Ah the day that Cory Conacher came home and changed the trajectory of the team.

Anyone have the trade thread from when it happened?

[St. Pete Gogolak]

Wow. Had to look it up.  McNabb is 35 years old.  Time really flies when you miss the playoffs 14 years in a row.  I guess the moral of the story is if the Sabres get ahold of a McNabb, don’t trade him (for the old-timers)!

[DarthEbriate]

Just now, Eleven said:

Ah the day that Cory Conacher came home and changed the trajectory of the team.

Anyone have the trade thread from when it happened?

 
@LGR4GM , could you please lock that trade thread so we don't accidentally really, really re-open the past? (That's that this thread is for.)

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

100% this.

I had some notes (over a year ago now... it must've come up in one GDT or another) about a McNabb Experiment --- what does the franchise look like without that trade. Just adding McNabb, who was on the cusp of rock-solid defending, to that roster. He was the right age, he was just a touch older than the forwards they were banking on getting (Reinhart/McEichel) as a result of the tank...  A young cornerstone. And they traded him with picks for futures.

Hudson Fasching was an intriguing prospect at the time. All heart on the ice. Heartwarming backstory off the ice. Recently starting putting it together on the scoresheet. But he wasn't some can't miss prospect or top-round talent. He was a wildcard.

The 2nd picks, you could argue GMTM would've wasted anyway (see Karabacek, Cornel, ... um... Lemieux)

And what did Deslauriers add that Foligno didn't already provide?

Yup. It took over a decade -- just to get back to a single playoff appearance. Yes, things appear positive, but given the Return of Barkov, the Sabres could just as easily miss the playoffs in 2026-2027 because of the insane strength of their own division.

Granted -- as soon as GMTM was out and JBott/Housley wanted to run a Nashville-styled run-and-gun d-corps such that we're running now, they'd have shipped McNabb out. But by then, maybe he fetches you a pretty good trade return. 1st and a young/blocked puck-moving D-man type. 

Relitigation Thread!

And yes... it's like GMTM added glue guys in Fasching and Deslauriers. But he had them already in McNabb and Foligno.

JBott disemboweling the "right-way-to-play" guys later: Deslauriers traded for nothing. Foligno for the ghost of Pominville. Imagine if when folks jumped on Eichel it wasn't Reinhart being the only guy to help out.

They all add up.

Looking back at that trade thread, it doesn't look like too many considered McNabb a young cornerstone at the time.

In case anyone is interested in reliving it while relitigating it:

 

 

[Porous Five Hole]

@DarthEbriate, I’m struggling to relitigate this because I don’t know if McNabb’s Knights-era is even applicable. Yes the LA trade sucked for Buffalo, but the Vegas McNabb probably happens either way.

McNabb was an expansion draft selection from LA to Vegas. Even if the Sabres did not make the LA trade and he was in Buffalo in 2017, it stands the Sabres would have exposed him to Vegas just like LA did (he missed half of 2016-17 with an injury). 

[Drag0nDan]

8 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

@DarthEbriate, I’m struggling to relitigate this because I don’t know if McNabb’s Knights-era is even applicable. Yes the LA trade sucked for Buffalo, but the Vegas McNabb probably happens either way.

McNabb was an expansion draft selection from LA to Vegas. Even if the Sabres did not make the LA trade and he was in Buffalo in 2017, it stands the Sabres would have exposed him to Vegas just like LA did (he missed half of 2016-17 with an injury). 

I dunno... we protected nathan beaulieu in that one...

[Porous Five Hole]

Just now, Drag0nDan said:

I dunno... we protected nathan beaulieu in that one...

I would much rather relitigate the expansion draft! Hindsight is unkind to that decision.  
 

But the context at the time is that the Sabres acquired him hours before the protection lists were due. And he was thought to be a young system-fit defenseman for Housley’s system.  Kind of the opposite of McNabb. 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

 
@LGR4GM , could you please lock that trade thread so we don't accidentally really, really re-open the past? (That's that this thread is for.)

WOW.  There was a lot of positivity in that thread!  Including me.

[DarthEbriate]

44 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I dunno... we protected nathan beaulieu in that one...

2017 summer, JBott did the following:

• 6/15 HC Phil Housley hired
• 6/17 Trade 2017 3rd to MTL for D Nathan Beaulieu
• 6/18 Expansion Protected List: Tyler Ennis (F), Marcus Foligno (F), Zemgus Girgensons (F), Evander Kane (F), Johan Larsson (F), Ryan O'Reilly (F), Kyle Okposo (F), Nathan Beaulieu (D), Jake McCabe (D), Rasmus Ristolainen (D), Robin Lehner (G)
• 6/21 Lost F William Carrier + 2017 BUF 6th to LV in expansion draft (pick added to protect Ullmark)

If... this whole thread is IF...   McNabb had already established himself as a key contributor, you're not trading for Beaulieu just to protect him. But, with Housley new to the team, the whole "eliminate all grit and replace EVERYONE with a PMD" purge akin to an Adams "all RHD!" move was on.

Coincidentally, Vegas got Lehner anyway.  

[DarthEbriate]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

WOW.  There was a lot of positivity in that thread!  Including me.

Yeah. I think everyone was high on Ristolainen and Zadorov. Why do you need all these D-men, anyway? As opposed to letting them play until they're in their mid-20s when they start to get good before anointing them as anything.

We just saw it play out in real time for four seasons with Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson (and two with Byram) --- who... collectively are way better than anything Risto, Zadorov, McNabb, and.... Bogosian or Mmmm...Myers? have done in their careers individually. Even with a much better d-corps it still took 4 seasons to even build the semblance of a team around them while they grew into a force.    ... That's a different re-litigation thread, Adams!

44 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I would much rather relitigate the expansion draft! Hindsight is unkind to that decision.  

Different re-litigation thread -- Florida, Vegas, and the Collusion to Win Cups in Two Non-Hockey States. At least Nevada gets ice in the mountains.

[dudacek]

This was kinda the signature trade for the “Tim Murray always overpaid” crowd innit?

Basically every element in the deal was worth roughly a 2nd at the time. Murray gave up 3 and got 2.

I remember being real high on Fasching at the time. Like Murray, I was wrong.

For the record though, Fasching’s 175 games is more than the average 2nd rounder.

And Deslauriers has played 708 NHL games.

Edited Wednesday at 07:33 PM by dudacek

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

They all add up.

Adding "up" is a misnomer in this case.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

WOW.  There was a lot of positivity in that thread!  Including me.

We were so naive back then.  Now when the team is doing much better, roared into the playoffs, won a round, we're all jaded and cynical.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Yeah. I think everyone was high on Ristolainen and Zadorov. Why do you need all these D-men, anyway? As opposed to letting them play until they're in their mid-20s when they start to get good before anointing them as anything.

We just saw it play out in real time for four seasons with Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson (and two with Byram) --- who... collectively are way better than anything Risto, Zadorov, McNabb, and.... Bogosian or Mmmm...Myers? have done in their careers individually. Even with a much better d-corps it still took 4 seasons to even build the semblance of a team around them while they grew into a force.    ... That's a different re-litigation thread, Adams!

Different re-litigation thread -- Florida, Vegas, and the Collusion to Win Cups in Two Non-Hockey States. At least Nevada gets ice in the mountains.

Maybe it doesn't have ice; but Florida has "snow" all over; especially down in Miami which is only 45 minutes to an hour away from where the Swamp Cats play.  😉 

[...]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Maybe it doesn't have ice; but Florida has "snow" all over; especially down in Miami which is only 45 minutes to an hour away from where the Swamp Cats play.  😉 

"snow". Hee hee.

[PerreaultForever]

Ya, lots of mistakes. Consider how big and tough the Buffalo D would have been all these years had it consisted of McNabb, Zadorov, McCabe and even Risto in a proper role. Add a couple good puck movers to that core and it would have been an impressive unit for a decade. 

[pi2000]

The McNabb trade is one of the reasons I hope they hang on to Mrtka.   You can never have too many quality defensemen and Mrtka on a rookie deal could save them some cap as well for a few years of quality defense on the 3rd pair.