What Would It Take to Obtain Thomas and Parayko?

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I also question is Thomas THAT good. I don't watch the blues play much, so I can't answer. 

Last year 64GP and 64 points and a carer .80 ppg player,so the stats look decent, the WAR chart that was posted looked good too. 

Intangibles? Face off, toughness, I have no clue. 

Thomas would become 1C.  

His production is good at .8 ppg and the thought is he could exceed that because he is a playmaker first center and the Sabres have finishers. Very good two way game and a high hockey IQ. 

[Fansince70]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

So who is this goalie to go get? Hellebuyck was the drizzling 💩 this season. Are they mortgaging the future to acquire a guy whose save % dropped 30 points?

Goaltending is absolute voodoo. The Canes were carried by Bussi this season who crashed out down the stretch. They turned to Andersen who has failed them every season in the playoffs and he finally put it together this season. 
 

Saros, Hellebuyck, Sorokin, Shersterkin, Bobrosky, Binnington all missed the playoffs.

Vasilevsky, Swayman, Ottienger got bounced in the first round. Colorado can’t have any confidence in their goaltending right now.

The days of getting a Belfour or CuJo or Dom or Brodeur to carry a team is done. 
 

Play a strong defensive system, score and hope your goaltending keeps you in games. Sabres goaltending was solid all season. They struggled at times in the playoffs as did Swayman and Dobes. 

As I've said before, analytics.  Find goalies on underachieving/just plain bad teams and see if their numbers rise above the team's record. If they're not a "name" goalie, they won't break the bank.  It's easy to say "we can't".   Hart is lightning in a bottle, but he's in Vegas's bottle because they tried. 

[Fansince70]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Sabres save% was around .905 while Vegas was around .880. And how would people reacted if the Sabres signed Hart with his , ahem, history?

The problem with this is it wasn't his history- it was Hill's.   Once Hart recovered from injury and found himself on a good team, he caught fire.  

[Flashsabre]

Just now, Fansince70 said:

As I've said before, analytics.  Find goalies on underachieving/just plain bad teams and see if their numbers rise above the team's record. If they're not a "name" goalie, they won't break the bank.  It's easy to say "we can't".   Hart is lightning in a bottle, but he's in Vegas's bottle because they tried. 

Is bringing up Levi an option to you?

Im not looking to argue with you  it’s just the position is so unstable across the league that just making changes to make changes isn’t a priority to me when the goaltending was solid all season.

[Fansince70]

5 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Is bringing up Levi an option to you?

Im not looking to argue with you  it’s just the position is so unstable across the league that just making changes to make changes isn’t a priority to me when the goaltending was solid all season.

You know as well as I do that Lyon and UPL played way better than their career averages all season.  It caught up to them against Montreal.  That's the past.  The future should be better as this team has an open window.   Levi is just one option across the league, but yes give him a shot.   Beat the bushes and don't be complacent is my point.  Ellis should also have every opportunity as he looked fantastic in a few games late in the year.  Unorthodox but so was Dom.  

Edited June 1 by Fansince70

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, Fansince70 said:

The problem with this is it wasn't his history- it was Hill's.   Once Hart recovered from injury and found himself on a good team, he caught fire.  

He was referring to the legal issues that were the impetus for the Phlyers releasing him.

He, and the other defendants were found not guilty and thus were allowed to return to the NHL.

But that wouldn't necessarily mean all 32 teams were looking to welcome him.

And not putting words in his mouth but expect he believed that Buffalo wouldn't have welcomed him.

[Fansince70]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He was referring to the legal issues that were the impetus for the Phlyers releasing him.

He, and the other defendants were found not guilty and thus were allowed to return to the NHL.

But that wouldn't necessarily mean all 32 teams were looking to welcome him.

And not putting words in his mouth but expect he believed that Buffalo wouldn't have welcomed him.

We'll never know, but money talks.  Why wouldn't Buffalo welcome him if he was cleared?  

[Porous Five Hole]

5 hours ago, tom webster said:

It’s actually not out of the question. Parayko admitted that it was a tough decision and the fact that it was mid-season factored into his ultimate decision. He spoke very positively about his conversations with Jarmo. It is plausible that he reconsiders in the offseason.

That’s fine. But I’m still not bringing in a guy who hesitated to come here once already. Invest in Byram and let the third pair be what it is.  It’ll be a lot cheaper than bringing in Byram’s replacement (Parayko) via trade. 

[Mr Peabody]

Have to believe to get Thomas it would have to be a blockbuster trade with he and Tage being the major pieces.   

[Nacho Libre]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Thomas would become 1C.  

His production is good at .8 ppg and the thought is he could exceed that because he is a playmaker first center and the Sabres have finishers. Very good two way game and a high hockey IQ. 

He’s be our best forward immediately yea

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

That’s fine. But I’m still not bringing in a guy who hesitated to come here once already. Invest in Byram and let the third pair be what it is.  It’ll be a lot cheaper than bringing in Byram’s replacement (Parayko) via trade. 

So, when the USFL folded, you were trading away the rights to Jim Kelly?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Fansince70 said:

The problem with this is it wasn't his history- it was Hill's.   Once Hart recovered from injury and found himself on a good team, he caught fire.  

As if that was guaranteed.

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, Fansince70 said:

We'll never know, but money talks.  Why wouldn't Buffalo welcome him if he was cleared?  

Don't know.  Maybe the team and the town would've welcomed him. 

But Cole Beasley was essentially run out of town.  And Matt Azaria was essentially run out of town.  Heck going back much further, Pat O'Toole was essentially run out of town.

Would've been quite surprised had the Sabres made a play on Hart.

[French Collection]

Thomas would help the Sabres, he is a 1C in his prime. The Blues want to get as much as possible so they call him elite. He is a mid tier 1C, not elite. He’s been around a point per game for the last 5 seasons, very good but not elite. Elite to me is a 100 point scorer.

Byram + one good piece is all I would offer and obviously more if Parayko is coming back.

[Night Train]

Parayko may have a year left at his age. That doesn't make sense. No. 

[Second Line Center]

As mentioned before the new GM was teammates with Thomas.  WGR had a Blues reporter on, mentioned this, and that he doesn’t believe Thomas is being dealt. 

 

I’m not even considering this anymore. 
 

What I think the front office has to consider:

1. Priority 1A and 1B - extend Benson and Byram. 

2. Can we keep Tuch?

3. Can Norris be counted on as a 1C.  Is Tage a wing?  The answers to those questions should steer whether we try and trade for a center.   

4. Goaltending 

[Rasmus_]

Acquiring Thomas, would signal a clear indication to me that Buffalo is moving on from Tuch.  It clearly is an indicator that we'd be done w/ Alex.  Between trading for his 8.25M dollar contract, and the need to re-sign Benson, I'm pretty sure he'd be gone.

[Mr. MVP]

I don’t know man.  I’m seeing a couple people including Helenius in a package for Thomas and I’m starting to think Helenius is going to become better than him in 2-3 years. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

No interest in Parayko.

I like Thomas and thought his acquisition at the deadline might have helped us do deep in the playoffs with his high end playmaking ability and faceoff skills.   Those are certainly skills you can argue we continue to need, but I’m no longer sure that’s true.  Benson, Östlund and Helenius’ development adds the necessary playmaking without the high cost of Thomas. 

Under no circumstance would I include Östlund, Benson or Helenius in any deal for Thomas or anyone else.  Helenius’ elite speed can’t be easily replaced.  Östlund has the playmaking skills to give us, short and long-term, the impact Thomas does without the high current cap cost and without moving out key assets.  We saw the immediate impact of Östlund in playoffs.  We beat Montreal imho with Östlund.  I also don’t think we can trade both Norris and Quinn. Our 5 on 5 scoring could withstand the loss of one of the two, but not both, especially with Zucker coming off the books after next season and possibly losing Tuch this off-season.

Right now the forward group, with Benson the only sure FA to be re-signed, looks like Thompson, Norris, Doan, Benson, Mcleod, Östlund, Zucker, Quinn, Helenius, Kulich (if healthy), Greenway, Carrick and Danforth.   That’s a pretty good place to start, even without, Tuch, Krebs and Malenstyn.  Honestly, if we just re-sign Malenstyn, we’d have 4 solid lines and have long-term cap space to keep Byram and the kids.
 

 

[Apollo]

11 hours ago, Taro T said:

So, when the USFL folded, you were trading away the rights to Jim Kelly?

Remember Tom Cousineau? The Bills traded him to Cleveland after his stint in the CFL for a first round pick which the Bills then used on Jim Kelly who decided to go to the USFL. 

Edited June 2 by Apollo

[Broken Ankles]

6 hours ago, transient said:

I think the swing for the fences with Parayko was Jarmo leaning into the perfect storm of last season and was specifically aimed at bringing in leadership, skill and experience for a deep run in the playoffs. I don’t know that it makes as much sense to make an offseason deal for him. I wouldn’t revisit it until midseason if the Sabres are having another great year. 

This is where I am.  If the playoffs taught us anything it’s that our defensive corps while inexperienced, dominated some games with Harlem Globetrotteresque passing and while not overly physical, competed and more importantly transitioned to offense much better than expected.  And that Östlund and Helanius held their own at forward and should be zero confirmed for trade consideration.   So unless there is a consideration for McD coming and we are losing Power, then Parayko is not needed. 

 

[Second Line Center]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No interest in Parayko.

I like Thomas and thought his acquisition at the deadline might have helped us do deep in the playoffs with his high end playmaking ability and faceoff skills.   Those are certainly skills you can argue we continue to need, but I’m no longer sure that’s true.  Benson, Östlund and Helenius’ development adds the necessary playmaking without the high cost of Thomas. 

Under no circumstance would I include Östlund, Benson or Helenius in any deal for Thomas or anyone else.  Helenius’ elite speed can’t be easily replaced.  Östlund has the playmaking skills to give us, short and long-term, the impact Thomas does without the high current cap cost and without moving out key assets.  We saw the immediate impact of Östlund in playoffs.  We beat Montreal imho with Östlund.  I also don’t think we can trade both Norris and Quinn. Our 5 on 5 scoring could withstand the loss of one of the two, but not both, especially with Zucker coming off the books after next season and possibly losing Tuch this off-season.

Right now the forward group, with Benson the only sure FA to be re-signed, looks like Thompson, Norris, Doan, Benson, Mcleod, Östlund, Zucker, Quinn, Helenius, Kulich (if healthy), Greenway, Carrick and Danforth.   That’s a pretty good place to start, even without, Tuch, Krebs and Malenstyn.  Honestly, if we just re-sign Malenstyn, we’d have 4 solid lines and have long-term cap space to keep Byram and the kids.
 

 

 

Agreed. 
 

All I currently see right now as the best path to Cup contender is a roster that includes Tuch.  
 

To free up the money that will be needed to both extend Benson and sign Tuch that means we have to get rid of Greenways contract.  And I’m good with trading McCleod - I’d rather keep Zucker over him.  This team does need another grown man body.    
 

In trading McCleod I’d like to get back another D man that’s on a rookie deal or prospect.

 

Then consider a UPL plus mid prospects for a goalie also on a cap friendly deal.   
 

All potential big moves are probably involving one of our top prospects, Norris, Byram, and maybe Power.  I haven’t seen any names rumored to be available at the moment - unless there is something there with McDavid.   

Edited June 2 by Second Line Center

[Carmel Corn]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Has Hambone ever broke a story about anything?

 

6 hours ago, inkman said:

Not even close 

Frankly, I'm still waiting for him to ask a "meaty" question to either the GM or HC.  I think the only possibly controversial question he's ever asked with earlier this year about putting Malenstyn on the PP....which Ruff scoffed at.  He doesn't ask TOUGH questions....let alone break a story.

[Porous Five Hole]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

So, when the USFL folded, you were trading away the rights to Jim Kelly?

I mean, that’s not applicable because Kelly was already “property” of the Bills via the draft. 

[Fansince70]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Don't know.  Maybe the team and the town would've welcomed him. 

But Cole Beasley was essentially run out of town.  And Matt Azaria was essentially run out of town.  Heck going back much further, Pat O'Toole was essentially run out of town.

Would've been quite surprised had the Sabres made a play on Hart.

That's too bad.  On the other hand if he played on this level for the Blue and Gold, they'd name a village after him.