What Would It Take to Obtain Thomas and Parayko?

[Cranky old man]

There’s an article in the athletic talking about the blues and it doesn’t sound like they’re all that convinced that Thomas is gonna go out the door and given the fact that he wasn’t moved at the deadline, I get the impression that it’s Sabre fans that think they know more than they do. If the blues wanted to move Thomas they would’ve moved him. this Intel that says that Norris was the sticking point. I don’t believe it for three seconds—- Jarmo wanted to hang on to this injured centre, come on. let’s talk about Elias Petterson. And why should I trade for an old defenseman when I’ve got one of the best defense corps on my team?

Edited Tuesday at 05:40 PM by Cranky old man

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What pairing would you put him on? Right now it seems that the top two pairs are established. A Parayko deal might make sense if Byram was dealt to fill another need. 

They came close to acquiring either no intention of trading any of the top four. I think they envisioned kind of a mix-match of all of them depending on the game situation. It also gives them some protection in case Bo decides to move on.

They really like their top four and if it’s their call, none of them are moving. Parayko though would give them an interesting option,  although I think someone like Jake McCabe is a better fit.

[Kristian]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

lol Parayko already turned us down via NTC. But “no issues?”

I thought that was Thomas?

[PromoTheRobot]

28 minutes ago, Fansince70 said:

Vegas kept trying to get a goalie even before Hill failed, and signed Hart, who was exonerated.  The point is to try, and not stand pat like the Sabres seem set to do next year.  No use running back a position of failure if you're serious about the Cup. If the Sabres had outbid Vegas for Hart, they'd be in the Finals and VGK would be out.  

The Sabres save% was around .905 while Vegas was around .880. And how would people reacted if the Sabres signed Hart with his , ahem, history?

Edited June 1 by PromoTheRobot

[RPop]

As noted by others Thomas per StL media is very unlikely to be moved. Paratko has already said no to Buffalo. At this juncture the Sabres dodged a bullet on him rejecting the trade imho. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Kristian said:

I thought that was Thomas?

Both

[That Aud Smell]

The Sabres' biggest need, imo, is a play-driving 1C. (Which would allow Tage to move to wing on the top line.)

I don't (yet) trust any of Kulich, Östlund, or Helenius to be the team's 1C.

But the franchise's hockey people know a hell of a lot more than I do. And they may well decide that next year's 1C is already a Sabre. (Gulp.)

[transient]

I think the swing for the fences with Parayko was Jarmo leaning into the perfect storm of last season and was specifically aimed at bringing in leadership, skill and experience for a deep run in the playoffs. I don’t know that it makes as much sense to make an offseason deal for him. I wouldn’t revisit it until midseason if the Sabres are having another great year. 

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, tom webster said:

They came close to acquiring either no intention of trading any of the top four. I think they envisioned kind of a mix-match of all of them depending on the game situation. It also gives them some protection in case Bo decides to move on.

They really like their top four and if it’s their call, none of them are moving. Parayko though would give them an interesting option,  although I think someone like Jake McCabe is a better fit.

His contract is too hefty for me if he is not on one of the top two pairs.

[Kristian]

24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Both

Well, I should think that answers OP’s question then - A miracle.

[sabrefanday1]

22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Sabres save% was around .905 while Vegas was around .880. And how would people reacted if the Sabres signed Hart with his , ahem, history?

Yep our goaltending was actually pretty darn good and should get better next year...goalies take time to develop so to give any one of them away now is crazy. I do not thikn goaltending alone was our downfall...rather Tuch was MIA and Tage really needs to be on the wing. We also should have brought boy-wonder up at the start of the playoffs not when we were desperate (although in fairness we were the bettr team in game 7 and should have won and yes UPL let in that weak winner but I still think our goaltending is fine and we cannot afford to trade for someone overpaid (like so many are). If Bo aint staying (re-signed) then we need to trade him NOW and not lose him for nothing like we will do with Tuch  when he leaves this summer...

[inkman]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And who replaces one or the other? I don't get weakening your team for a player.

I'd assume Parayko would be the short-term replacement for whichever D you ship out.  Until one of Mrkta, McCarthy, Strbak, Kleber are ready to step in.  

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

If either Byram or Power would be part of the deal, Jarmo should be summarily dismissed for felonious incompetence. Hell no!

You need to give up talent to get a first line center.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, inkman said:

I'd assume Parayko would be the short-term replacement for whichever D you ship out.  Until one of Mrkta, McCarthy, Strbak, Kleber are ready to step in.  

That to me feels like shuffling the deck and maybe losing a card or two. I don't see the point.

[inkman]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

That to me feels like shuffling the deck and maybe losing a card or two. I don't see the point.

Like I said, I wouldn't do it. Although I'm curious what Bowen wants to do at this point.  Paul Hamilton is still suggesting Bo may want to be a "number 1" dman somewhere in the league. Not that I'd take anything he has to say without a huge grain of salt.  

[Eleven]

Let's please remember that Parayko turned the Sabres down because he has deep ties to the Saint Louis community and commercial deals there that wouldn't be available to him here.  That's an extra one or two million in his bank account that he loses if he goes ANYWHERE else.   

That said, I don't see how he would improve the team anyway.  

I'm not sure about Thomas, either.  Certainly he can 1C and move Thompson to wing.  There are cap issues coming up, though, so count on losing Tuch as well as whatever assets are traded for Thomas if that happens.  I can't see Saint Louis giving him away.  It's going to cost a lot, like a Helenius/Östlund and Power a lot.  And I'm not sure I want that.  I think I don't.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

Like I said, I wouldn't do it. Although I'm curious what Bowen wants to do at this point.  Paul Hamilton is still suggesting Bo may want to be a "number 1" dman somewhere in the league. Not that I'd take anything he has to say without a huge grain of salt.  

Has Hambone ever broke a story about anything?

[transient]

9 minutes ago, sabrefanday1 said:

Yep our goaltending was actually pretty darn good and should get better next year...goalies take time to develop so to give any one of them away now is crazy. I do not thikn goaltending alone was our downfall...rather Tuch was MIA and Tage really needs to be on the wing. We also should have brought boy-wonder up at the start of the playoffs not when we were desperate (although in fairness we were the bettr team in game 7 and should have won and yes UPL let in that weak winner but I still think our goaltending is fine and we cannot afford to trade for someone overpaid (like so many are). If Bo aint staying (re-signed) then we need to trade him NOW and not lose him for nothing like we will do with Tuch  when he leaves this summer...

Uhhh, Lyon is 34. He just had a career season. It’s much more likely that he regresses to his mean next season. UPL is who he is. We’ve seen enough of him to know he’s prone to lapses at the worst possible moment. They played well in the regular season, and each had his moment in the playoffs, but cumulatively for the postseason they were below average and neither one looks particularly good in terms of their advanced statistics. 

[JohnC]

44 minutes ago, inkman said:

 

You need to give up talent to get a first line center.  

Move Norris to 1C and Helenius to 2C. When you have young talent that can play now and know will continue to get better you stay the course.  Recognize what you got and embrace it. 

[inkman]

55 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Has Hambone ever broke a story about anything?

Not even close 

[inkman]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Move Norris to 1C and Helenius to 2C. When you have young talent that can play now and know will continue to get better you stay the course.  Recognize what you got and embrace it. 

To be fair, this sounds a lot like what we did during the drought. I like Östlund and Helenius as much as anyone, I would only include them in what can be considered a major upgrade. IMHO, Robert Thomas is right at the line of whether or not I’d make the deal. If Power or Byram are included, ***** no I’m not giving up any of the prospects. That deal should be nearly one for one with maybe some mid round picks or prospects (lower tier) exchanged. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

I can't see Saint Louis giving him away.  It's going to cost a lot, like a Helenius/Östlund and Power a lot.  And I'm not sure I want that.  I think I don't.

Hmm. I think there was a time when Power + Top Prospect (Östlund or Helenius) would have been on the table for Rob Thomas + a 2nd rounder (just spitballing).

But I think that time's past. Power and those two Top Prospects have each played their way out of that deal, I think. Unless St. Louis is adding another legitimate NHL'er.

28 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Move Norris to 1C and Helenius to 2C. When you have young talent that can play now and know will continue to get better you stay the course.  Recognize what you got and embrace it. 

Penciling in Norris as next season's 1C would be planning to fail.

8 minutes ago, inkman said:

To be fair, this sounds a lot like what we did during the drought. I like Östlund and Helenius as much as anyone, I would only include them in what can be considered a major upgrade. IMHO, Robert Thomas is right at the line of whether or not I’d make the deal. If Power or Byram are included, ***** no I’m not giving up any of the prospects. That deal should be nearly one for one with maybe some mid round picks or prospects (lower tier) exchanged. 

Yessir. Recency bias being what it is, I favour Helenius over Östlund at this point. But I think one of them would need to go in a deal for Rob Thomas #orelseforgetaboutit .

Power is the anchor of an elite second pairing, so I'd be averse to including him in that Östlund/Helenius deal.

Byram, though? I might get down with that.

[shrader]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Parayko is not going to be happy as a bottom 3 guy, he is 33, and he already turned down Buffalo.  Most of all he is not good enough to make the top 4 unless we trade one of them for Parayko which to me is not a smart  move at all.  The Blues will want Mrkta who is a guy I prefer to keep over Parayko.  

Thomas is worth pursuing but I am not sure Buffalo has all the goods or even the willingness to pay for him when they have Östlund and Helenius emerging. 

St Louis will probably want 3 equivalent 1's in the form of pick (our 1st rounder is #27 and not that attractive), a player ready now (Norris is a salary swap with Thomas  but is injury prone) , and a prospect (Helenius or Östlund most likely). 

Dealing with Armstrong is not something I would do.  

This is going to sound ultra-conservative but I would not trade Helenius or Östlund.  

  

Steen is taking over the job. Armstrong is going into the front office. I’m not really sure how much continuity there is from any discussions the blues had with teams last year. It’s a new GM. 

[steveoath]

We need Östlund and Helenius on their ELC to give us performers on cheapest deals. The skinner buyout is a PITD. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Steen is taking over the job. Armstrong is going into the front office. I’m not really sure how much continuity there is from any discussions the blues had with teams last year. It’s a new GM. 

True that Steen is taking over but Armstrong will be helping him.  That’s  the scuttlebutt. Steen will probably lean on him for awhile. 

[Flashsabre]

4 hours ago, Fansince70 said:

Vegas kept trying to get a goalie even before Hill failed, and signed Hart, who was exonerated.  The point is to try, and not stand pat like the Sabres seem set to do next year.  No use running back a position of failure if you're serious about the Cup. If the Sabres had outbid Vegas for Hart, they'd be in the Finals and VGK would be out.  

So who is this goalie to go get? Hellebuyck was the drizzling 💩 this season. Are they mortgaging the future to acquire a guy whose save % dropped 30 points?

Goaltending is absolute voodoo. The Canes were carried by Bussi this season who crashed out down the stretch. They turned to Andersen who has failed them every season in the playoffs and he finally put it together this season. 
 

Saros, Hellebuyck, Sorokin, Shersterkin, Bobrosky, Binnington all missed the playoffs.

Vasilevsky, Swayman, Ottienger got bounced in the first round. Colorado can’t have any confidence in their goaltending right now.

The days of getting a Belfour or CuJo or Dom or Brodeur to carry a team is done. 
 

Play a strong defensive system, score and hope your goaltending keeps you in games. Sabres goaltending was solid all season. They struggled at times in the playoffs as did Swayman and Dobes. 

Edited June 1 by Flashsabre