Kevyn Adams Speaks

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not sure why this issue is being re-litigated here after this was all made clear in December. And another thing, since when does a HC not have a say in day to day roster management? The Östlund decision simply wasn’t GMKA’s decision alone to make. 

The coach has a say, but the final decision of who is on the roster is the GM's.

And the final decision as to which of the players on the roster are dressed for any particular game should be the coach's decision.  And THAT was the ultimate issue in the Muckler Nolan feud.  Muckler wanted Satan in the lineup and Nolan kept putting Ronan in instead.

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not sure why this issue is being re-litigated here after this was all made clear in December. And another thing, since when does a HC not have a say in day to day roster management? The Östlund decision simply wasn’t GMKA’s decision alone to make. 

Because these things take on a life of their own. They get repeated over and over and taken as gospel. And you end up with a bizarre alt reality.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The coach has a say, but the final decision of who is on the roster is the GM's.

And the final decision as to which of the players on the roster are dressed for any particular game should be the coach's decision.  And THAT was the ultimate issue in the Muckler Nolan feud.  Muckler wanted Satan in the lineup and Nolan kept putting Ronan in instead.

Lindy wanted a 7th defenseman to take West. So why would he be upset when he asked his GM to do it?

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

Östlund was never sent back to Rochester again.

Because we never needed to make room on the roster afterwards.

Edited May 21 by PromoTheRobot

[TageMVP]

Shouldn't have been fired. Jarmo is in over his head 

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Adams didn't address the goaltending situation? Does the name Alex Lyon ring a bell? Sabres were 10th in fewest goals allowed. All three goalies were .903, .907 and .910.

And one more time to the Östlund issue. Lindy wanted a 7th Dman for the Western trip. Östlund was the only waiver exempt player on the roster. Why would Lindy have a problem with a move he asked for???

And one more time to the Calgary game / Östlund issue.  If that combination of events wasn't the final straw in making the decision to relieve Adams of his duties, why was he relieved of his duties when that road trip ended and they were on a 3 game winning streak?

You say it's because the team had lost the fans; but that was true before they left for the road trip.  Why wasn't that decision made after then NJ game?  That was the point where fan anger was at its peak.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Taro T said:

And one more time to the Calgary game / Östlund issue.  If that combination of events wasn't the final straw in making the decision to relieve Adams of his duties, why was he relieved of his duties when that road trip ended and they were on a 3 game winning streak?

You say it's because the team had lost the fans; but that was true before they left for the road trip.  Why wasn't that decision made after then NJ game?  That was the point where fan anger was at its peak.  

Coincidence. What you are describing isn't proof. It's coincidence. And don't forget the rumors of Adams dismissal were already floating before that trip west. 

And why are you ignoring Lindy's ask for a 7th defenseman which made the Östlund move necessary?

[K-9]

36 minutes ago, Mango said:

Östlund was never sent back to Rochester again.

That’s why it’s being re-litigated after all this time? Because Östlund was never sent back? I just don’t buy that. It was just a temporary roster move necessitated by the need to call up an extra D man at the time, which Lindy fully understood. And that need didn’t reappear later on the season, anyway. 

[K-9]

35 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The coach has a say, but the final decision of who is on the roster is the GM's.

And the final decision as to which of the players on the roster are dressed for any particular game should be the coach's decision.  And THAT was the ultimate issue in the Muckler Nolan feud.  Muckler wanted Satan in the lineup and Nolan kept putting Ronan in instead.

True. But Kevyn “gotta have consensus” Adams never did anything without Lindy’s buy in when it came to roster decisions. 

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Coincidence. What you are describing isn't proof. It's coincidence. And don't forget the rumors of Adams dismissal were already floating before that trip west. 

And why are you ignoring Lindy's ask for a 7th defenseman which made the Östlund move necessary?

No, the rumors of Adams dismissal WEREN'T floating before the trip.  Those who try to say Adams dismissal had nothing to do with their rise LOVE to point out that the rumor of his dismissal leaking out to the masses started the day AFTER the game in Edmonton.

No, am not ignoring that Ruff wanted an extra D-man on the trip.  You are ignoring that the world isn't binary and that even though you only see 1 way for that move to have been made, there were and are other ways it could've been made.  You risk losing Josh Dunne if you really need a 7th D-man for the trip.  Or if you're afraid you'll lose Dunne, you risk losing Tyson Kozak.  You're trying to get back into the playoff race.  You don't remove your 4th best forward from the roster to get back into the playoff race.

And personally like both of them.  But they are 4th liners and there was a redundancy of 4th liners on the roster after sending Östlund back down.  And 4th liners are easily replaceable.  They needed to have the best lineup possible available and they didn't because they were afraid of losing Josh Friggin' Dunne.  And Ruff definitely came across as being unhappy Noah was sent down.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

True. But Kevyn “gotta have consensus” Adams never did anything without Lindy’s buy in when it came to roster decisions. 

It sure didn't sound like Ruff had bought into the decision to send Östlund down.  He may have accepted it but he certainly sounded like he didn't agree with it.  And there is a difference between the 2.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No, the rumors of Adams dismissal WEREN'T floating before the trip.  Those who try to say Adams dismissal had nothing to do with their rise LOVE to point out that the rumor of his dismissal leaking out to the masses started the day AFTER the game in Edmonton.

No, am not ignoring that Ruff wanted an extra D-man on the trip.  You are ignoring that the world isn't binary and that even though you only see 1 way for that move to have been made, there were and are other ways it could've been made.  You risk losing Josh Dunne if you really need a 7th D-man for the trip.  Or if you're afraid you'll lose Dunne, you risk losing Tyson Kozak.  You're trying to get back into the playoff race.  You don't remove your 4th best forward from the roster to get back into the playoff race.

And personally like both of them.  But they are 4th liners and there was a redundancy of 4th liners on the roster after sending Östlund back down.  And 4th liners are easily replaceable.  They needed to have the best lineup possible available and they didn't because they were afraid of losing Josh Friggin' Dunne.  And Ruff definitely came across as being unhappy Noah was sent down.

 

Just now, Taro T said:

It sure didn't sound like Ruff had bought into the decision to send Östlund down.  He may have accepted it but he certainly sounded like he didn't agree with it.  And there is a difference between the 2.

You are impervious to evidence.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I don't think Adams moves on from Savoie/Cozens if he GMKA is the loudest voice in the room. 

Kevyn was never the loudest voice in the room.  He spoke often about the need for consensus with his coaches and scouts.  He was not a leader, he was a poll taker, and never had a clear vision for the team.

I agree that when Lindy arrived a vision started to become more apparent, and the moves started to prune players that were not fulfilling their potential while bringing in players that addressed the holes in the lineup.  The team had talent but little toughness; since Lindy showed up it's more balanced.  Jarmo seems to share Lindy's vision thus far.

Kevyn brought in very talented players but didn't really build a team.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I think the straw that broke the camels back was Östlund. Lindy was public he didn't like moving him back to Rochester. Adams was gone one week later. 

Very interesting thought.  The writing was on the wall for his departure; the hiring of Jarmo, the Palm trees, another bad start, but the disagreement with Ruff on Östlund (Ruff was correct) could very well have been the last straw.  In Terry’s world, I think he’d trust Ruff’s judgement over Adams.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It sure didn't sound like Ruff had bought into the decision to send Östlund down.  He may have accepted it but he certainly sounded like he didn't agree with it.  And there is a difference between the 2.

Like Lindy said, it was a numbers game. And he shouldn’t have been happy about it. What sucked was Östlund having to wait a few days to satisfy the requirement of having to play at least one game with the Amerks before he could be recalled. The Sabres played three games in the interim before he returned. 

I wonder how Lindy felt when sending Östlund down previously in October to make room for Greenway. 

Bottom line is, it was all explained previously and while nobody liked it, the need to carry the extra D man made perfect sense at the time. Won’t be the last time one of our waiver-exempt good young players gets sent down temporarily for similar reasons. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

wonder how Lindy felt when sending Östlund down previously in October to make room for Greenway. 

If I remember correctly Lindy wanted Greenway in this lineup, especially for the playoffs.

[JP51]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Adams was fired because he failed to make the playoffs 5 years running, was trending toward a 6th, and he had lost the fan base and quite possibly the room.

This ain’t one of the great mysteries of the world people.

And it’s OK to acknowledge that he laid a lot of the groundwork that helped set the team up for the success that he absolutely failed to deliver in the significant time allotted to him.

He’s not a villain or a martyr, just a guy forced to learn on the job after being dropped into a difficult situation that he was unqualified for.

Adams had become such a liability the fan base was in utter revolt, Pegula was taking in vitriolic waters, the team was losing and making no progress... I dont know what turned it around when he was fired.. like were they miraculously on the road to winning the division and every one knew it? I am not sure I can buy that... When Adams left something happened... did it shake them up, did they decide to listen to Lindy and execute his system, I dont know... but I do feel this... something happened mentally to that team when Adams left... I just dont buy it was a coincidence... Maybe it was the absolute consistent negativity being gone, maybe it was the focus on other people... maybe they leaned on Lindy... I dont know... but sometimes a shake up is in order... I do not think sending Östlund down got him fired... I think anything he did at that point was going to be met with disgust... over 5 years of poor choices in the personnel and PR area led to 5 years in the abyss... that is why he was fired. IMO

[dudacek]

As far as the timing goes, there was a pretty clear gap between Pegula making the decision and announcing the decision that was in part tied to the death of Jarmo’s dad.

I’d say Terry entered the season with the idea that he would pull the trigger if not enough progress was shown and that he was test-driving Jarmo as a replacement.

IMO it’s NOT at all clear when he decided he was going to fire Kevyn, only that he did not do so immediately upon reaching that conclusion.

[...]

We'll never get the real story, but a few themes in Jarmo's presser were "listening", and, more by implication rather than using the specific words, "working together". As enumerated in the prior posts, the chain forged by Adyms by the time he was near being fired was a heavy and ponderous chain.

It could very well be Lindy wasn't happy with the Östlund decision and bitched, not expecting it to be the hammer blow to Adyms' employment. I think the way Lindy mentions Adyms in this last presser could indicate a little guilt. Again, just building out a narrative here.

Looking at it from the outside, the only consensus Adyms seems to have sought, ever, was consensus that served the goal of preserving his job.

The team, other than settling internal strife during the leader meeting we've heard a lot about, may simply not have liked Adyms' GMing. Maybe he was too stubborn, maybe he didn't listen very well, maybe what the team leaders wanted and/or wanted to do was being ignored, and toward the end, thought Adyms made them all look like clowns. Once he was gone and Jarmo came in quickly marked his territory, the team bought into the idea that "okay, we're actually getting serious here". You see this happening in any organization of people. Hockey teams/organizations aren't exempt from this phenomenon.

 

 

[DarthEbriate]

I said at the time that it was the Trevor Kuntar contract that was the final straw.

We seem to be made to suffer talk about Sheevyn. It's our lot in life. I could be another voice of reason in that it was the leadership and overall performance of 6 years, but I say the real impact was this:

Ruff was hired by Pegula and had to be convinced (by his own admission in one of those Sabres videos) to take the job. Adams wanted Appert and ensured Appert was part of the staff. This is well-reported and documented.

You cannot convince me that Appert would've requested/demanded the changes that Ruff with his 700+ career wins made to the roster. Ruff came in and demanded speed in the bottom 6 -- give up a Savoie, give up a 2nd, no matter --, buy out Skinner, and get a guy maybe even an overpay for someone like a Zucker. Those are Ruff-roster shopping list moves. 

If Adams/Appert had been in charge it would've been the continued "Wait for Power" approach. Savoie, Skinner, Cozens, Bryson. They're likely all still here.

You could argue Adams' best transaction was to trade for Doan (and Kesselring), but that wasn't even his decision. That was forced upon him by JJP refusing to sign an RFA extension.

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

He’s not a villain or a martyr, just a guy forced to learn on the job after being dropped into a difficult situation that he was unqualified for.

Too reasonable! 😇

Still a villain for me.

 

Footage of Adams Speaks:

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

As far as the timing goes, there was a pretty clear gap between Pegula making the decision and announcing the decision that was in part tied to the death of Jarmo’s dad.

I’d say Terry entered the season with the idea that he would pull the trigger if not enough progress was shown and that he was test-driving Jarmo as a replacement.

IMO it’s NOT at all clear when he decided he was going to fire Kevyn, only that he did not do so immediately upon reaching that conclusion.

I guess wallowing in last place in the conference wasn’t showing enough progress. 

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I said at the time that it was the Trevor Kuntar contract that was the final straw.

We seem to be made to suffer talk about Sheevyn. It's our lot in life. I could be another voice of reason in that it was the leadership and overall performance of 6 years, but I say the real impact was this:

Ruff was hired by Pegula and had to be convinced (by his own admission in one of those Sabres videos) to take the job. Adams wanted Appert and ensured Appert was part of the staff. This is well-reported and documented.

You cannot convince me that Appert would've requested/demanded the changes that Ruff with his 700+ career wins made to the roster. Ruff came in and demanded speed in the bottom 6 -- give up a Savoie, give up a 2nd, no matter --, buy out Skinner, and get a guy maybe even an overpay for someone like a Zucker. Those are Ruff-roster shopping list moves. 

If Adams/Appert had been in charge it would've been the continued "Wait for Power" approach. Savoie, Skinner, Cozens, Bryson. They're likely all still here.

You could argue Adams' best transaction was to trade for Doan (and Kesselring), but that wasn't even his decision. That was forced upon him by JJP refusing to sign an RFA extension.

Good points all around. KA may have acquired the players, but this is Lindy’s roster. 

[Cranky old man]

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

 

Edited May 21 by Cranky old man

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Cranky old man said:

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  KA taking credit for the Sabre success is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

[Sabrejak]

22 minutes ago, Cranky old man said:

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  His taking credit for the Sabre succes is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

The unanswered question: what is it about Kevyn Adams firing that the Buffalo Sabres players found so inspiring?  KA taking credit for the Sabre success is like a guy who brought a load of bricks to a job site, and then 12 months later says to everybody look at the beautiful brick house I built. 

 

I chose to read the third one and ignored the others.