Roster Construction Ideas & Workshopping

[JohnC]

29 minutes ago, ... said:

Are you saying the option to trade Tuch at the deadline would not have been a "hard and unavoidable" choice? And how would dealing Tuch be "unserious"? Seems like that would be a pretty dang serious choice.

They were in the playoffs by the deadline, the only question was which slot. If Tuch walks, he walks for nothing.

So strange. Other teams get praised for going hard with the roster. If the Sabres go hard it's unserious, despite the expectation for hard and unavoidable choices. 

I would not have traded Tuch during the season no matter what his contract status was at the time. The organization was all in to maximize the season. And that was the right thing to do.

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why wouldn't Byram take the same route as Tuch and let his contract ride out until he is a free agent? From a financial standpoint it would make sense. What I see Byram doing is betting on himself with a high-performance season and then auctioning himself off to the highest bidder on the market. In the sports business it is not easy to put oneself in a position with a lot of leverage. And when you do get in that favorable situation, you maximize it to get the highest market value you can get.  

This has to be rhetorical, right?

If Buffalo offers him a fair deal and he likes playing in Buffalo, obviously.

There’s a reason that’s the decision most pending NHL free agents make when offered extensions.

You’ve heard of the bird in the hand, right?

Byram has just come off the best season of his career and has a history of concussions.

If someone offers you $70M  (stop and think about that number) to stick around, is it really that easy to say “nah, I’m good, I’m going to stay healthy and have an even better season and get an even better contract in an even better situation?”

Don’t make it sound like this is an obvious path, it’s not even close.

Turning down an offer like that takes either balls of steel, or a serious discomfort with the status quo.

 

Edited June 12 by dudacek

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This has to be rhetorical, right?

If Buffalo offers him a fair deal and he likes playing in Buffalo, obviously.

There’s a reason that’s the decision most pending NHL free agents make when offered extensions.

You’ve heard of the bird in the hand, right?

Byram has just come off the best season of his career and has a history of concussions.

If someone offers you $70M  (stop and think about that number) to stick around, is it really that easy to say “nah, I’m good, I’m going to stay healthy and have an even better season and get an even better contract in an even better situation?”

Don’t make it sound like this is an obvious path, it’s not even close.

Turning down an offer like that takes either balls of steel, or a serious discomfort with the status quo.

 

Don't forget to add, if Buffalo decides they're going to hold onto him after September 16th come heck or high water until July 1, 2027, then that $70MM has to be earned over 6 years instead of 8 to have the total $'s match.  (Yeah, there'd be 2 more years at the end to earn more to get closer to that $70MM over the life of the deal; but as you mentioned, he came to Buffalo with concussion issues.  It isn't a guarantee he'll get a deal after this one.  It's likely, but is isn't a dead set certainty).

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This has to be rhetorical, right?

If Buffalo offers him a fair deal and he likes playing in Buffalo, obviously.

There’s a reason that’s the decision most pending NHL free agents make when offered extensions.

You’ve heard of the bird in the hand, right?

Byram has just come off the best season of his career and has a history of concussions.

If someone offers you $70M  (stop and think about that number) to stick around, is it really that easy to say “nah, I’m good, I’m going to stay healthy and have an even better season and get an even better contract in an even better situation?”

Don’t make it sound like this is an obvious path, it’s not even close.

Turning down an offer like that takes either balls of steel, or a serious discomfort with the status quo.

 

No it’s not a rhetorical comment. He’s going to make a judgment as to what his market value is and will be. Would he be open to sign with Buffalo before his contract expires?. Of course he would assuming that it is within the range of what he believes his market value will be. 

Tuch will be making a decision based on what he believes will be in his best interest. And the richness of the contract will be a big factor. And I’m sure that will be the same mindset/approach that Byram will take.
 

 

[nfreeman]

4 hours ago, ... said:

Because, if Jarmo is smart, he won't be caught in the same situation as he is with Tuch. The Tuch situation was allowed to slide to now for whatever reason. They should have known by the trade deadline whether he was going or staying and then traded his ass if he wasn't staying. (I get the "local rental" justification - I don't buy it.)

Jarmo needs to set a drop-dead date for Byram signing an extension. If he does not by that date, the damage is done, and Byram gets traded as soon as the right deal comes up. The date ought to be June 25, 2026, so Jarmo knows what kind of a package he can offer as trade bait. No more messing around with these players trying too eek out ~9% more pay.

So, if Byram takes the same route as Tuch - he's gone now.

Your point is fair but I’m glad they kept Tuch.  They might’ve missed the playoffs and they probably wouldn’t have beaten Boston in round 1 without him.

I also think keeping Tuch was a deliberate choice by Jarmo that I think was the right choice.

Having said that, I think the situation is different with Byram and I agree that Jarmo should trade him by the deadline if he doesn’t extend by then.  

[#freejame]

Logan Stanley is going to sign for at least $4m per year and it’s not going to be in Buffalo

[dudacek]

32 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Logan Stanley is going to sign for at least $4m per year and it’s not going to be in Buffalo

I’ve seen even more.

People need to think about that when they say Owen Power is overpaid.

I really curious how the market is going to adjust to having so much money available and such limited talent to spend it on.

Lot of talk that internal caps will increasingly become a thing for more teams, and player worth is poised to rapidly change.

[SabreFinn]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’ve seen even more.

People need to think about that when they say Owen Power is overpaid.

I really curious how the market is going to adjust to having so much money available and such limited talent to spend it on.

Lot of talk that internal caps will increasingly become a thing for more teams, and player worth is poised to rapidly change.

It might be that the wise guys can buy low by mid-season. The -27 group of UFAs is also more interesting imo. 

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Your point is fair but I’m glad they kept Tuch.  They might’ve missed the playoffs and they probably wouldn’t have beaten Boston in round 1 without him.

I also think keeping Tuch was a deliberate choice by Jarmo that I think was the right choice.

Having said that, I think the situation is different with Byram and I agree that Jarmo should trade him by the deadline if he doesn’t extend by then.  

With Tuch, and even Byram next season, the return in a trade is severely diminished due to their impending free agent status. That doesn't mean that there will be no return if the organization allows the player/s to ride out their contracts. Both of these players are quality players whose salary slots will certainly be on the high-end. If the players depart their salary slots can then be used for players procured in a trade or from the free agent market. 

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

With Tuch, and even Byram next season, the return in a trade is severely diminished due to their impending free agent status. That doesn't mean that there will be no return if the organization allows the player/s to ride out their contracts. Both of these players are quality players whose salary slots will certainly be on the high-end. If the players depart their salary slots can then be used for players procured in a trade or from the free agent market. 

Tuch yes but I don't think so with Byram. There's still a full year there and I think you can easily trade him to somebody like Philly, especially if it's for picks and prospects. Now I'm not advocating doing that but if there are other big moves and it's necessary then fine. 

The one thing I would do though is I would trade him now if there's no extension. If he wants to follow the Tuch path it's better to move him now than later or lose him for nothing later. 

Now does anybody want Stanley signed or have we all moved on already?

[JohnC]

50 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Tuch yes but I don't think so with Byram. There's still a full year there and I think you can easily trade him to somebody like Philly, especially if it's for picks and prospects. Now I'm not advocating doing that but if there are other big moves and it's necessary then fine. 

The one thing I would do though is I would trade him now if there's no extension. If he wants to follow the Tuch path it's better to move him now than later or lose him for nothing later. 

Now does anybody want Stanley signed or have we all moved on already?

I understand your position in moving Byram sooner rather than later but disagree with it. I would rather keep him and be more concerned with the present than worry about the future.

The issue associated with Stanley is what will his salary be. And don’t forget that we still have Kesserling to replace Stanley. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I understand your position in moving Byram sooner rather than later but disagree with it. I would rather keep him and be more concerned with the present than worry about the future.

The issue associated with Stanley is what will his salary be. And don’t forget that we still have Kesserling to replace Stanley. 

I'm trading Kesselring because it's clear Lindy doesn't like something about him and I think you can get good value with teams thinking he still has upside. Which he might. 

Now remember one trade or one non trade depends on who else gets traded or not traded. At the moment there are too many bodies and not enough roster spots. I don't think you want to be sending guys like Helenius back to the AHL so some moves are going to have to happen. 

[Scottysabres]

Robertson out of Dallas is intriguing, although cost of the new contract might be a touchy subject.

[thewookie1]

If we are forced to move Byram, I might have interest in a McLeod for Pelech swap in principle at least. 

[thewookie1]

https://puckgm.puckpedia.com/rosters/1683741

 

Here I play a less aggressive but still effective idea

 

Trocheck and Pelech, NYI's 4th in 26

for 

20, our 4th and McLeod between 2 trades

[Hoss]

Not really sure where to put this, but this will have an impact on future roster building.

 

[dudacek]

So based on what the Sabres have said and done am I wrong to think this is the most likely starting point for a healthy roster?

Benson Kulich Thompson

Östlund Norris Doan

Zucker McLeod Quinn

Krebs Carrick Malenstyn

Samuelsson Dahlin

Zellweger Power

Crevier Timmins

With Crevier and Timmins rarely actually playing with each other, just rotating in with the top 3.

Metsa the spare defenceman, Helenius the offensive extra forward, Danforth the defensive extra forward and Krebs the guy who gets moved into the top 9 when Lindy thinks somebody doesn’t have it that night.

Not necessarily what I’d do, but it seems to be what fits with the trends we’ve seen.

[dudacek]

PK:

Benson Mcleod

Malenstyn Carrick

Mule Timmins

Power Crevier

PP:

Benson Doan

Thompson Dahlin Norris

Östlund Zucker

Quinn Power Kulich

[dudacek]

Assuming the Hellebuyck rumours get real and at least one of Östlund or Helenius is available to add to this roster, do you see it contending for a division title?

Benson Kulich Thompson

Doan Norris Kane

Krebs McLeod Quinn

Danforth Carrick Malenstyn

Samuelsson Dahlin

Power Zellweger

Crevier Timmins

Hellebuyck

Ellis

[SabreFinn]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Assuming the Hellebuyck rumours get real and at least one of Östlund or Helenius is available to add to this roster, do you see it contending for a division title?

Benson Kulich Thompson

Doan Norris Kane

Krebs McLeod Quinn

Danforth Carrick Malenstyn

Samuelsson Dahlin

Power Zellweger

Crevier Timmins

Hellebuyck

Ellis

Depends on if we get Hellebuyck from last season or two seasons ago. It should be a 100pt team and make the playoffs, that's what matters to me.

[Night Train]

Too many players with the Krebs deal. 

If they stand pat, Helenius and Östlund will be sent down ( since they don't have to clear waivers ).  

I'd rather see both with the Sabres now. 

 

[Hoss]

I'm not advocating for any of the following, but I keep seeing people try to float the idea that completing a Hellebuyck deal would get Larkin to expand his list to include Buffalo thanks to Tage & Helle. But, what would that even look like?

Say the Helle deal becomes Quinn, Mrtka, UPL, and a 2028 1st

Then you flip Michigan native Josh Norris along with Östlund, Kleber, and two firsts (2027 & 2029) for Larkin

I don't think the Larkin deal is the right mix (I think they'd want something more definitive from the big club), but add in a Kane signing and you're left with:

Benson - Tage - Doan

Zucker - Larkin - Kane

Kulich - McLeod - Helenius

Krebs - Carrick - Malenstyn

Samuelsson - Dahlin

Power - Zellweger

Crevier - Timmins

Hellebuyck

Lyon/Ellis (sell the other for a pick)

[That Aud Smell]

7 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Then you flip Michigan native Josh Norris along with Östlund, Kleber, and two firsts (2027 & 2029) for Larkin

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I wasn't really putting a ton of thought into it or advocating for it, as I said. I just know it's going to cost a ton, and realistically, Detroit's not going to want just a jumbled mix of futures unless they feel like it's an overpay. It might be a piece too much, but it's not an insane concept.

Edited Tuesday at 01:44 PM by Hoss

[That Aud Smell]

17 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I just know it's going to cost a ton, and realistically, Detroit's not going to want just a jumbled mix of futures unless they feel like it's an overpay.

It would?

The player has the franchise in a tough spot. 

I gave the Ice Cube stoned gif because what you were spit-balling struck me as an insane overpay.