Is this defence for real?

[dudacek]

Should we be surprised that Byram, Power and Samuelson all appear to be taking a step in the season that each passes the 250 games played mark?

I mean, I've been preaching that as a signpost for months, so I guess i shouldn't be.

But this is the Sabres, so I kind of am.

I know this is cherry picking a month of hockey — and the best month of hockey this team has played in 15 years. I know that defence is a team stat, often made or broken by goaltending. (Their team SV% of .925 leads the league)

But in the past month, the team has also led the league in defence by a clear margin, with 2.15 GAA. Only one other team is under 2.50.

They are 5th in blocked shots/60, and 2nd in takeaways/60.

And this is happening without giving away any offence (the Sabres are 6th).

The aforementioned 3 have played hard minutes and put up impressive stat lines over 13 games:

• Power 0/5/5 TOI: 21:06 SA%: 50  ESG%: 65.0 xG%: 50.8 Hits: 6 BS: 14
• Byram 3/7/10 TOI: 23:06 SA%: 44 ESG%: 73.1 xG%: 51.5 Hits: 13 BS: 17
• Samuelsson 2/8/10 TOI: 24:16 SA%: 42 ESG%: 64.7 xG%: 46.7 Hits: 21 BS: 30

All 3 have started significantly more shifts in the defensive end than the offensive — 2 1/2 times more in Mule's case.

They've taken 2 penalties — total — between them.

And they continue to pass the eye test.

In his introductory conference, Jarmo said this team had one of the most talented defence corps in the league. Was he right? Do we we finally have some complements to Dahlin?

Is this a blip, or are they taking a real step here?

Edited January 10 by dudacek

[Sabres73]

Yes, they're real. And talk of trading Power is ridiculous. The geniuses here already traded Sammy in the offseason.

[Porous Five Hole]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Should we be surprised that Byram, Power and Samuelson all appear to be taking a step in the season that each passes the 250 games played mark?

I mean, I've been preaching that as a signpost for months, so I guess i shouldn't be.

But this is the Sabres, so I kind of am.

I know this is cherry picking a month of hockey — and the best month of hockey this team has played in 15 years. I know that defence is a team stat, often made or broken by goaltending. (Their team SV% of .925 leads the league)

But in the past month, the team has also led the league in defence by a clear margin, with 2.15 GAA. Only one other team is under 2.50.

They are 5th in blocked shots/60, and 2nd in takeaways/60.

And this is happening without giving away any offence (the Sabres are 6th).

The aforementioned 3 have played hard minutes and put up impressive stat lines over 13 games:

• Power 0/5/5 TOI: 21:06 SA%: 50  ESG%: 65.0 xG%: 50.8 Hits: 6 BS: 14
• Byram 3/7/10 TOI: 23:06 SA%: 44 ESG%: 73.1 xG%: 51.5 Hits: 13 BS: 17
• Samuelsson 2/8/10 TOI: 24:16 SA%: 42 ESG%: 64.7 xG%: 46.7 Hits: 21 BS: 30

All 3 have started significantly more shifts in the defensive end than the offensive — 2 1/2 times more in Mule's case.

They've taken 2 penalties — total — between them.

And they continue to pass the eye test.

In his introductory conference, Jarmo said this team had one of the most talented defence corps in the league. Was he right? Do we we finally have some complements to Dahlin?

Is this a blip, or are they taking a real step here?

[LGR4GM]

Sabres have 2.39xGA/60

That means they are fancy stat allowing 2.4 goals a game. Obviously real world results aren't the same but it's good to see they are able to really cut down on those good chances against.  I said a bunch about how they needed a 14% reduction in goals against, they might just get there. 

[kas23]

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, kas23 said:

That kid just graduated high school.

[Crusader1969]

41 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

Yes, they're real. And talk of trading Power is ridiculous. The geniuses here already traded Sammy in the offseason.

I was definitely once of the "geniuses" and I'm glad to admit I was totally wrong 

I agree with you about Power.  I keep him with hopes that he continues to improve.   In another year or two We keep them all together, add Kesselring and 2 more high end guys (Mrtka and another by trade ), they might have by far the best defensive core in the league 

one where we don't just dream of making the playoffs 

[pi2000]

It has more to do with the team buying into the system than individual development.

[Doohickie]

10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

It has more to do with the team buying into the system than individual development.

Hasn't Lindy had a season and a half to institute His System?  Has it taken that long?

[oddoublee]

9 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Hasn't Lindy had a season and a half to institute His System?  Has it taken that long?

The last 5 years tells me the players were young and stubborn. Maybe they are finally maturing and willing to listen to their older, yet wiser leaders? 

[pi2000]

15 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Hasn't Lindy had a season and a half to institute His System?  Has it taken that long?

It's not necessarily "Lindy's" system.   It's learning how to play the right way to win in the NHL.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

It's not necessarily "Lindy's" system.   It's learning how to play the right way to win in the NHL.

I will repeat this again because these words came true.  I was told by a friend who happens to be an assistant coach in the NHL, to feel sorry for whoever replaces Granato as coach.   His point was that the young players were not learning an NHL system and how to play in the NHL.  His point, the next coach was bound to have a tough time.  

Lindy had a rough first year and said he has “never seen such a hard fix”.    This year, once they got healthy, they are now showing they are getting it.  

[Big Guava]

Defensively this team has been just crazy good...other teams usually get nothing in terms of scoring chances...pretty much everything is kept to the outside.

Most times the Sabres get the puck, win the board battle and out it goes.

Back checking by the forwards has been exceptional, often taking trailers out and getting sticks on any passes that come into the middle...

Essentially other teams are often forced into the "shoot from anywhere" mentality the Sabres used to have because they couldn't generate any offense other than just throwing pucks on goal and hoping for the best.

 

Edited January 10 by Big Guava

[Weave]

I think last season I came out early as saying I was more comfortable with our defense than our forwards.  The talent was there.  The potential seemed outstanding.  I haven’t watched much real time play so I can’t comment on what I think changed. Maybe its simply games and experience, I don’t know.   But I knew a season ago that this group had way more ability than we were seeing on the ice.

Its not a 1970’s Canadiens level defense , but could it be a 1980s Capitals level defense?

[French Collection]

Maturation has been a part of this.

Former university student Owen Power finally realized that someone 6’6” 230lbs can separate another player from the puck. I doubt he was a physics major.

Matthias Samuelsson realized that physical fitness leads to improved performance in pro sports. Confidence is important too.

Bowen Byram realized his skills well were above average and how to use them properly. He probably has an eye on his next contract, which could be a doozy.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I think last season I came out early as saying I was more comfortable with our defense than our forwards.  The talent was there.  The potential seemed outstanding.  I haven’t watched much real time play so I can’t comment on what I think changed. Maybe its simply games and experience, I don’t know.   But I knew a season ago that this group had way more ability than we were seeing on the ice.

It’s not a 1970’s Canadiens level defense , but could it be a 1980s Capitals level defense?

You hit on it when you cited getting more experience. What has changed is younger players getting better as they gain experience and become more physically developed. Power is clearly playing better. In another year or two, he will be even better. And the same improvement process is evident with Byram. 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Hasn't Lindy had a season and a half to institute His System?  Has it taken that long?

Apparently 

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I will repeat this again because these words came true.  I was told by a friend who happens to be an assistant coach in the NHL, to feel sorry for whoever replaces Granato as coach.   His point was that the young players were not learning an NHL system and how to play in the NHL.  His point, the next coach was bound to have a tough time.  

Lindy had a rough first year and said he has “never seen such a hard fix”.    This year, once they got healthy, they are now showing they are getting it.  

I agree with you about the differences between Granato and Ruff in how they did not and did teach an NHL system. But to be fair to Granato, his primary mission at the time was developing young players at the expense of forcing them to play a system. The organization took an approach of over relying on young players and force feeding them game experience. Compare that to Krueger, who chained his players to his rigid system at the expense of developing players. Compare Dahlin under Krueger to Dahlin under Granato? Dahlin went from being a more robotic and limited player under Krueger to a more free-flowing and unleashed player who was able to manifest his multifaceted talents.  

[Dr. Who]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you about the differences between Granato and Ruff in how they did not and did teach an NHL system. But to be fair to Granato, his primary mission at the time was developing young players at the expense of forcing them to play a system. The organization took an approach of over relying on young players and force feeding them game experience. Compare that to Krueger, who chained his players to his rigid system at the expense of developing players. Compare Dahlin under Krueger to Dahlin under Granato? Dahlin went from being a more robotic and limited player under Krueger to a more free-flowing and unleashed player who was able to manifest his multifaceted talents.  

Didn't Granato push offense with the rather insane idea that he'd install a defensive system later? Of course, he was an improvement and welcomed by the players after the complete fraud of Krueger. Nonetheless, seems to me the evident and really nearly commonsense answer is maturation of defensive players with high potential wed to a genuine defensive system has suddenly synched up. It should be sustainable, and there's still room for improvement.

Edited January 10 by Dr. Who

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Didn't Granato push offense with the rather insane idea that he'd install a defensive system later? Of course, he was an improvement and welcomed by the players after the complete fraud of Krueger. Nonetheless, seems to me the evident and really nearly commonsense answer is maturation of defensive players with high potential wed to a genuine defensive system has suddenly synched up. It should be sustainable, and there's still room for improvement.

As you noted, his priority was offense and then following it up at a later time with more attention to the defensive system. The Sabres had a roster loaded with young players. It was far from being a balanced roster. Granato's first challenge was to undue the shackles that Krueger placed on this team. You can make a case that Granato went too far the other way, but I'm sympathetic to the situation he was in at the time. As I stated in my prior post, his first priority was more directed toward player development than to instituting a defensive system. Another way of looking at the comparison between Granato and Ruff is that each of them was the right coach at the right time. If Ruff would have followed Krueger as a coach, I don't think it would have worked. The coaching issue with the Sabres is related to the time and place. The Granato handoff to Ruff seems to me to be the right sequencing of coaches. 

[Jorcus]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you about the differences between Granato and Ruff in how they did not and did teach an NHL system. But to be fair to Granato, his primary mission at the time was developing young players at the expense of forcing them to play a system. The organization took an approach of over relying on young players and force feeding them game experience. Compare that to Krueger, who chained his players to his rigid system at the expense of developing players. Compare Dahlin under Krueger to Dahlin under Granato? Dahlin went from being a more robotic and limited player under Krueger to a more free-flowing and unleashed player who was able to manifest his multifaceted talents.  

 

I will add this about Granato. They did not give him the time to continue to teach an NHL defensive system. We seem to forget how improved the defense was in the second half of his last season. Good enough to get UPL the label of the hottest goalie in the NHL. Good enough to get UPL a nice contract. He not only did this with younger personnel but players of much lower quality. Where would we be if Joker, Connor Clifton, and Jacob Bryson/Ryan Johnson were making up half the defense?

Then there is the defensive play of the forwards. We have replaced Cozens for Norris, Peterka for Doan, Skinner for Zucker. Lindy came in an changed what was working from the end of the Granato era and the team got worse. That was on him. I have pointed out the change in style about zone exits before but they are not hammering pucks out of the zone anymore hoping for a stretch pass breakaway. This only changed after the first 20 games of the season. 

The scout may have been correct for most of Granato's time, but he had one hand tied behind his back with the squad and was not given the time and better players to fully implement his plan. 

Edited January 10 by Jorcus

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Jorcus said:

 

I will add this about Granato. They did not give him the time to continue to teach an NHL defensive system. We seem to forget how improved the defense was in the second half of his last season. Good enough to get UPL the label of the hottest goalie in the NHL. Good enough to get UPL a nice contract. He not only did this with younger personnel but players of much lower quality. Where would we be if Joker, Connor Clifton, and Jacob Bryson/Ryan Johnson were making up half the defense?

Then there is the defensive play of the forwards. We have replaced Cozens for Norris, Peterka for Doan, Skinner for Zucker. Lindy came in an changed what was working form the end of the Granato era and the team got worse. That was on him. I have pointed out the change in style about zone exits before but they are not hammering pucks out of the zone anymore hoping for a stretch pass breakaway. This only changed after the first 20 games of the season. 

The scout may have been correct for most of Granato's time, but he had one hand tied behind his back with the squad and was not given the time and better players to fully implement his plan. 

You make an important point that whenever there is a coaching change, there usually is an adjustment period to the new coach. Sometimes the change in coaching and systems take time for the players to adjust, and sometimes the change is more immediate. You never know. For me, I'm more sympathetic toward the challenges Granato faced than many are here. Even in hindsight, I consider him to be the right person at the time to takeover. And with respect to Krueger, my view of him is that he set back the rebuilding process by the stifling way he handled his roster. It was the obtuse owner who hired him.

[Night Train]

Playing better but still have usual suspects who won't move out traffic in front of their goalie and abhor physical play. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you about the differences between Granato and Ruff in how they did not and did teach an NHL system. But to be fair to Granato, his primary mission at the time was developing young players at the expense of forcing them to play a system. The organization took an approach of over relying on young players and force feeding them game experience. Compare that to Krueger, who chained his players to his rigid system at the expense of developing players. Compare Dahlin under Krueger to Dahlin under Granato? Dahlin went from being a more robotic and limited player under Krueger to a more free-flowing and unleashed player who was able to manifest his multifaceted talents.  

 

Granato worked for Krueger, and was a much better coach than Krueger, but neither was right for the job.   How Terry ever became enamored with Krueger is exactly why Terry should hire proven and experienced executives to run his hockey operations.   

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

Granato worked for Krueger, and was a much better coach than Krueger, but neither was right for the job.   How Terry ever became enamored with Krueger is exactly why Terry should hire proven and experienced executives to run his hockey operations.   

It's not difficult to understand why our befuddled owner became enamored with Krueger in an interview setting. Krueger was a talented on-stage communicator. I'm not going to go so far as saying he was a huckster because he did have some core beliefs on how to coach. The problem was that they didn't fit for where this team was at and where it hoped to go. The source of the Krueger mistake was not Krueger. It was an owner who was seduced by his own hockey shallowness.