Jarmo presser thread

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

And last season they made the jump they did mostly due to internal growth: Mule, Byram, UPL, Benson, Quinn, Krebs, Power.

They lost a flashy talent in Peterka.

Their big acquisitions consisted of discovering untapped value in Lyon and Doan.

Why should we automatically assume they’ve made poor evaluations in their moves this summer, including their belief in youth?

 

My perspective…. Jarmo’s belief in the youth is more tempered than alot of the folks in here.  He did try to take some big swings, so that shows me an acknowledgment that the youth here is being asked to do more than Jarmo is comfortable with.

Helle wouldn’t have been a story if Jarmo believed in the 3 headed monster.

Thomas wouldn’t have been a story if Jarmo was comfortable with the kids replacing Tuch.

Kane wouldn’t have been a story if the answer to the PP and 2RW was comfortably found in house.

Obviously, none of those players were to be had at Jarmo’s price.  
 

I don’t think there is question that Jarmo is not fully comfortable with the roster on hand.  I think the only question really is, does Jarmo undervalue enriching the roster.

I think I know where Thorny stands. 🤣

 

 

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, Nacho Libre said:

WE don’t have to do anything. 

MY INITIAL POST LITERALLY SAID “I know I am in the minority” 

*I said I know I am in the minority*

This place is never beating the forced groupthink allegations. Leave me alone lmao 

Like, dear lord, honestly. I say I disagree with the philosophy and am met first with “no you don’t” 

then I prove my philosophy is different and it’s, “well why are you forcing that on us all”. Like, this is what actually happened lol

Winnipeg summers, eh?

If you know, you know

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

I still think Kulich should be blocked 

Is the priority Kulich’s development or ours? Way too much of a question mark to be counting on him for anything at all 

I see no difference between the approaches of either GM yet. The results are identical so far re: roster.

Biggest difference so far is that Adams was an atrocious communicator. I’d much rather have jarmo if only for that reason. He hasn’t been able to get anything done, but by all accounts other GMs are willing to talk to him. And that’s a start. It’s a start, boys! 

- - - 

the season Kulich had the season previous to Adams counting on him: 0 points 

the season Kulich had the season previous to Jarmo counting on him: 5 points 

progress 

How do you reconcile wanting Kulich blocked with your willingness to trade Norris and Östlund for Hellebuyck?

Edited July 24 by #freejame

[thewookie1]

32 minutes ago, Nacho Libre said:

And why should they be? Because you must conflate my argument as a rule? I said my EXPECTATION is perennial playoff team.  That is where my expectations are satisfied. You are confusing that aspect with approach 

As I’ve now stated a *truly ridiculous* amount of times: each season should be approached as if it is THE most important season

that is NOT what jarmo is saying, is he? Actually asking. Is that was jarmo is saying? That the coming season is the uttermost focus? Or is he preaching balance 

Frankly I understand that you want 100% every offseason to be put solely into the next season. You want effectively an all-in approach year after year and just hope that you can maintain it indefinitely.
 

This differs from the vast majority of fans here to varying degrees for different reasons individually but on a macro level it comes down to philosophy. You are firmly in the VGK/ LA Rams position which obviously can succeed for a time but, it doesn’t always. The San Diego Padres and New York Mets have also done this before in stretches but have almost always fallen flat on their face without accomplishing much of anything. (Mets made 1 WS and lost) (Padres never achieved more than the NLDS I believe) For it to work it requires immediate success, an almost perpetual state of easy to sign UFAs that can replace lost parts and a top tier GM and Coach who can find the illusive indentation to ride. The thing is, Buffalo fans on average have little to no faith in any of those happening regardless of the success of any other key conduits. UFAs, even when we have been good in years past, aren’t exactly keen on joining the Sabres in droves. Buffaluck as we might call it tends to lean to Murphy’s Law when we might go all in on a year. And lastly, we have a terribly hard time trusting any coach or GM to pull off such a cycle consistently. Buffalo will almost certainly have to rely at least some significant amount on drafting/developing as well as some timely trading to garner success. Trading however comes with both the immediate price tag and the rarity of good deals being available. 

[Nacho Libre]

7 minutes ago, #freejame said:

How do you reconcile wanting Kulich blocked with your willingness to trade Norris and Östlund for Hellebuyck?

- I already don’t count on anything from Norris and would happily trade his terrible contract

- I really like Östlund but I don’t think the value he brings is comparable to Hellebuyck 

- I still don’t think that necessitates Kulich having a meaningful spot on the roster. But, even if it did, the priority of maximizing the current season still supersedes the desire to block Kulich, or rather - the desire to “block” him falls under the priority: adding Hellebuyck and leaving Kulich unblocked still, in my evaluation, leaves us far better off re: the priority (maximizing this season) than keeping Östlund and not getting Hellebuyck would 

[Nacho Libre]

15 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Frankly I understand that you want 100% every offseason to be put solely into the next season. You want effectively an all-in approach year after year and just hope that you can maintain it indefinitely.
 

This differs from the vast majority of fans here to varying degrees for different reasons individually but on a macro level it comes down to philosophy. You are firmly in the VGK/ LA Rams position which obviously can succeed for a time but, it doesn’t always. The San Diego Padres and New York Mets have also done this before in stretches but have almost always fallen flat on their face without accomplishing much of anything. (Mets made 1 WS and lost) (Padres never achieved more than the NLDS I believe) For it to work it requires immediate success, an almost perpetual state of easy to sign UFAs that can replace lost parts and a top tier GM and Coach who can find the illusive indentation to ride. The thing is, Buffalo fans on average have little to no faith in any of those happening regardless of the success of any other key conduits. UFAs, even when we have been good in years past, aren’t exactly keen on joining the Sabres in droves. Buffaluck as we might call it tends to lean to Murphy’s Law when we might go all in on a year. And lastly, we have a terribly hard time trusting any coach or GM to pull off such a cycle consistently. Buffalo will almost certainly have to rely at least some significant amount on drafting/developing as well as some timely trading to garner success. Trading however comes with both the immediate price tag and the rarity of good deals being available. 

Ya maybe. I don’t believe we couldn’t succeed under the philosophy of maximizing the current season at all times, but in my initial post I was pretty darn clear I am open to the possibility it can’t work that way. Which is why I said I’m beginning to hate the game, and not the player. Again, I was candid about this at the beginning. The only thing that matters to me is good faith argument. Being in the minority isn’t uncomfortable or unfamiliar ground for me. Neither is what I write getting ignored the first (and second and third) go round 

Edited July 24 by Nacho Libre

[Weave]

48 minutes ago, Nacho Libre said:

Neither is what I write getting ignored the first (and second and third) go round 

Me, and me only, but I doubt I am alone here.

I read every damn post on this forum.  The volume of text is insane, really.  I’m lucky if I can recall my own position on alot of these topics, let alone someone else’s.  Yeah, your output is prodigious, but I’m certainly not able to catalog nuances in even your prodigious takes.  You’re not getting ignored.  It all gets blended in the mix, like a fly caught in the time machine.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

How do you reconcile wanting Kulich blocked with your willingness to trade Norris and Östlund for Hellebuyck?

Not speaking for @Nacho Libre, for this kid, the hope/plan was to have at the end of the day Hellebucyk, Trochek, & Kane upgrading and backfilling (as appropriate) UPL, Norris/McLeod, & Quinn.

They'd still be down Tuch, but the other holes created would've been backfilled and there'd still be Kulich/Östlund & Helenius available to backfill the guys backfilling Tuch's role.

And w/ the Skinner cap hit, that's probably about the best you can do THIS season, but you can still be about what you were on paper and you have a great base point to start looking for improvements for the following season.

That ISN'T happening, but hopefully something to raise the on  paper floor still happens this summer.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Weave said:

My perspective…. Jarmo’s belief in the youth is more tempered than alot of the folks in here.  He did try to take some big swings, so that shows me an acknowledgment that the youth here is being asked to do more than Jarmo is comfortable with.

Helle wouldn’t have been a story if Jarmo believed in the 3 headed monster.

Thomas wouldn’t have been a story if Jarmo was comfortable with the kids replacing Tuch.

Kane wouldn’t have been a story if the answer to the PP and 2RW was comfortably found in house.

Obviously, none of those players were to be had at Jarmo’s price.  
 

I don’t think there is question that Jarmo is not fully comfortable with the roster on hand.  I think the only question really is, does Jarmo undervalue enriching the roster.

I think I know where Thorny stands. 🤣

 

 

Which ultimately makes Jarmo the same as Adams. 

There was obviously some interest from some players in coming to Buffalo. The door has opened a crack, but if you don't improve the roster, and don't reward the players who worked hard to make the playoffs with an improved roster how long before that crack in the door slams right shut again? 

[GHOST OF KEVYN ADAMS]

16 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

good post 

Personally, what I want is for them to chase playoffs every year. My only goal and expectation (and I have maintained a consistency of argument on this for a decade) is being a perennial playoff team. That’s it - I still don’t see a team that feels it needs to commit to winning in the now as a priority 

I believe what I’m seeing is still the thinking under Adams - they expect the playoffs in the now to be a bi-product of prioritizing the future 

I despise the mindset. Hubristic and impossible to root for. It’s hard to root for the team I love when they deserve to lose.

Somebody clearly said glass half empty the first time they were asked that question.

[Nacho Libre]

4 hours ago, GHOST OF KEVYN ADAMS said:

Somebody clearly said glass half empty the first time they were asked that question.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm not gonna start a new thread to report the following: I just glossed over the 3rd consecutive recent deep dive report on a Sabres prospect (this one concerned Kulich) that heavily featured the thoughts of Jerry Forton.

I feel quite conflicted about that.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm not gonna start a new thread to report the following: I just glossed over the 3rd consecutive recent deep dive report on a Sabres prospect (this one concerned Kulich) that heavily featured the thoughts of Jerry Forton.

I feel quite conflicted about that.

According to some on here, Forton hates puppies. 

[That Aud Smell]

20 minutes ago, kas23 said:

According to some on here, Forton hates puppies. 

lol. i think my fear is that he's the sort of guy who loves them too much.

in the latter days of the Adams' regime, i spent some time and energy building up an image of forton as part of (a veritable poster child for) the incompetence that  seemed to pervade the franchise.

now he's front and centre in multiple media interviews. it seems weird.

[tom webster]

47 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

lol. i think my fear is that he's the sort of guy who loves them too much.

in the latter days of the Adams' regime, i spent some time and energy building up an image of forton as part of (a veritable poster child for) the incompetence that  seemed to pervade the franchise.

now he's front and centre in multiple media interviews. it seems weird.

Anyone paying attention could tell that Forton’s only crime was being a friend of TPEGS. He’s been very good at his job proving the point that hiring someone because he’s your friend is sometimes worse then not hiring someone that is your friend.

Forton has done a great job heading the amateur scouting division and being able to merge analytics with old school scouting 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Anyone paying attention could tell that Forton’s only crime was being a friend of TPEGS. He’s been very good at his job proving the point that hiring someone because he’s your friend is sometimes worse then not hiring someone that is your friend.

Forton has done a great job heading the amateur scouting division and being able to merge analytics with old school scouting 

We’re finally far enough into the Forton era to start passing judgement:

How good are Power, Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Östlund, Benson, Helenius compared to their other options?

In a few years we can add Mrtka, Rudolph Morozov and the 2nd rounders to that judgement.

Power and Benson look like great choices to me, but it’s the ceilings of Konsta, Jiri and Noah that will really make or break him.

[shrader]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

We’re finally far enough into the Forton era to start passing judgement:

How good are Power, Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Östlund, Benson, Helenius compared to their other options?

In a few years we can add Mrtka, Rudolph Morozov and the 2nd rounders to that judgement.

Power and Benson look like great choices to me, but it’s the ceilings of Konsta, Jiri and Noah that will really make or break him.

I’ve been thinking of one other thing with this scouting department lately. If we trust them, at least when it comes to the first round, they just landed who they believed to be the top defenseman in each of the last two drafts. That could be huge. 

Edited July 30 by shrader

[tom webster]

18 minutes ago, shrader said:

I’ve been thinking of one other thing with this scouting department lately. If we trust them, at least when it comes to the first round, they just landed who they believed to be the top defenseman in each of the last two drafts. That could be huge. 

Your point is taken but I’m one hundred percent sure they had Schaefer rated ahead of Mrtka

[shrader]

17 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Your point is taken but I’m one hundred percent sure they had Schaefer rated ahead of Mrtka

Ha, I completely forget about him all the time since he’s on a list all by himself. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Anyone paying attention could tell that Forton’s only crime was being a friend of TPEGS. He’s been very good at his job proving the point that hiring someone because he’s your friend is sometimes worse then not hiring someone that is your friend.

Forton has done a great job heading the amateur scouting division and being able to merge analytics with old school scouting 

i was paying attention. that was clear as mud to me.

his résumé prior to joining the Sabres was pretty middling. intensely local.

Edited July 30 by That Aud Smell

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

i was paying attention. that was clear as mud to me.

his résumé prior to joining the Sabres was pretty middling. intensely local.

Yeah, I know better to imply you weren’t. My point was, however, that while his resume was light and his relationship solid, it was clear he was a sharp administrative mind. Initially he was put in the wrong position but like most people of ability, he found his niche. Some of the best hires people make are out of the box.

[#freejame]

If we listened to Forton we’d have McAvoy

[shrader]

17 minutes ago, #freejame said:

If we listened to Forton we’d have McAvoy

So he would have assaulted his own teammate with that nasty two hander?

[#freejame]

12 minutes ago, shrader said:

So he would have assaulted his own teammate with that nasty two hander?

I like to think he would have been giving his teammates a different kind of nasty two hander

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

it was clear he was a sharp administrative mind. Initially he was put in the wrong position but like most people of ability, he found his niche.

fair to say that this is a take that would need to be informed by second hand information, at a minimum?