GDT: Sabres @ Flames, Dec 8, 2025, 9pm. WGR, MSG, ESPN+(out of market)

[Archie Lee]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

A quick look at the analytics from the lines last night and a couple of things stand out... 

Even strength, I think it's the worst offensive performance from Tuck and Thompson all year. No official scoring chances... No official high danger chances... And that was with Greenway on their line. 

Other than Greenway sinking that top line last night, there were a bunch of different line combinations, but the next two worst combinations had one thing in common... Jack Quinn.

Both of them were signed to extensions and that was a mistake. But right now Quinn and Greenway are back to hurting this team compared to some of the younger guys who could be playing for them. But yet keep on playing them because we have to justify those bad contracts.

Thompson and Tuch have had their share of bad games this year without Greenway. 

[mjd1001]

31 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Thompson and Tuch have had their share of bad games this year without Greenway. 

Yes but they've also had some good games. 

Maybe it's because he's coming off the injury, but Greenway positionally has been much much worse this year than even in the past. 

Maybe last year it wasn't a disaster. Putting him with types in temporarily, with this year, with how he's playing, it made zero sense... And the results last night showed.

And remember, they were out there against Calgary. They're not back on their heels, playing Colorado's first line, or a healthy Panthers team. To not generate any offense... Any scoring chances at all... Versus Calgary is beyond unacceptable

Edited 4 hours ago by mjd1001

[eman]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Entirely disagree with this. They are playing to a 73 point pace right now; that’s below what they played in Granato’s 1st full season when their key players were younger and the line-up was dotted with Wil Butcher, Andres Bjork, John Hayton, Aaron Dell, and Dustin Tokarski. In Granato’s next two years, with a younger core than now, they played to two games below DeLuca .500 and had a goal differential of -2. In a season and a 1/3 under Ruff, the Sabres are 17 games below DeLuca .500 and have a -35 goal differential. 

We act sometimes like we have been embarrassingly bad year after year. For 3 seasons under Granato we either met or exceeded reasonable expectations, based on the roster, every year. Ruff was a terrible mistake. He has had precisely the opposite impact that he was brought in to provide. 

Pegula and Adams have been the terrible mistake.

[JohnC]

24 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

A quick look at the analytics from the lines last night and a couple of things stand out... 

Even strength, I think it's the worst offensive performance from Tuck and Thompson all year. No official scoring chances... No official high danger chances... And that was with Greenway on their line. 

Other than Greenway sinking that top line last night, there were a bunch of different line combinations, but the next two worst combinations had one thing in common... Jack Quinn.

Both of them were signed to extensions and that was a mistake. But right now Quinn and Greenway are back to hurting this team compared to some of the younger guys who could be playing for them. But yet keep on playing them because we have to justify those bad contracts.

It’s a futile exercise to go into detail about which players are not contributing to this poorly matched roster. The sabotaging problem isn’t about any particular player as it is the hollow organization led by the invisible owner and his handpicked clueless GM.
 
It doesn’t matter in what field of endeavor you are in. When the organization’s primary decision makers are grotesquely incompetent, the outcome is very predictable.

When you have an owner who doesn’t recognize his own hockey ignorance that is glaringly evident to everyone else, then you will continue to fail. 
 

The worst thing that happened to this franchise is that it was bought by Terry Pegula. He may own a big boat but ever since  he took over this franchise has been sinking.

You don’t have to make a deep analysis to come up with such an obvious conclusion. The owner’s obtuseness and stubbornness is enraging. 

[eman]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

It’s a futile exercise to go into detail about which players are not contributing to this poorly matched roster. The sabotaging problem isn’t about any particular player as it is the hollow organization led by the invisible owner and his handpicked clueless GM.
 
It doesn’t matter in what field of endeavor you are in. When the organization’s primary decision makers are grotesquely incompetent, the outcome is very predictable.

When you have an owner who doesn’t recognize his own hockey ignorance that is glaringly evident to everyone else, then you will continue to fail. 
 

The worst thing that happened to this franchise is that it was bought by Terry Pegula. He may own a big boat but ever since  he took over this franchise has been sinking.

You don’t have to make a deep analysis to come up with such an obvious conclusion. The owner’s obtuseness and stubbornness is enraging. 

Correct! No NHL ownership group or individual continues to employ a GM with the track record of Kevyn Adams. Only one: The Buffalo Sabres. It all starts there.

 

[mjd1001]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It’s a futile exercise to go into detail about which players are not contributing to this poorly matched roster. The sabotaging problem isn’t about any particular player as it is the hollow organization led by the invisible owner and his handpicked clueless GM.
 
It doesn’t matter in what field of endeavor you are in. When the organization’s primary decision makers are grotesquely incompetent, the outcome is very predictable.

When you have an owner who doesn’t recognize his own hockey ignorance that is glaringly evident to everyone else, then you will continue to fail. 
 

The worst thing that happened to this franchise is that it was bought by Terry Pegula. He may own a big boat but ever since  he took over this franchise has been sinking.

You don’t have to make a deep analysis to come up with such an obvious conclusion. The owner’s obtuseness and stubbornness is enraging. 

The problem is he has shown zero signs of changing. 

He wants things his way, he's probably more stubborn and less open to outside suggestions... It appears in even most other billionaire owners. 

And as long as he has the bills... He has one professional sports team that he can turn his head towards and look at when things are on fire with the Sabres he doesn't care. 

It's like... He would rather lose doing things his way with him involved in decisions... Rather than win but have to admit he's been wrong and do things where he has less control or input.

The guy won't even make a public appearance, he won't even do a press conference, for years. (Not that that's the worst thing in the world seeing how he bumbles and stumbles through them)

Accountability? Why should anyone in this franchise be accountable..from the coaches to the general manager to the scouts to the players... When the biggest coward with the least accountability is the guy signing the checks.

[SABRES 0311]

I didn’t stay up but I woke up to 7-4.

Nobody will probably agree but you gotta start this thing over.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I didn’t stay up but I woke up to 7-4.

Nobody will probably agree but you gotta start this thing over.

Idk if start it over is where I am at, but I think they need another rebuild. How much of a tear down is open to debate but this team is a spent force. 

[Archie Lee]

15 minutes ago, eman said:

Pegula and Adams have been the terrible mistake.

Sure. But the team was not awful in the Granato years. Which isn’t meant as a full-throated defence of Granato. I reject that this group of players is incapable of playing better, more structured and consistent hockey. The 3rd goal last night was a great example. The lack of situational awareness and attention to detail is startling. There is 8 seconds of 5v3 to kill and we immediately get out of position and chase, leaving Huberdeau for a back door tap in. Just continuous failures to execute basic strategies. It’s not all on Ruff, but he has been truly awful for this team. 

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes but they've also had some good games. 

Maybe it's because he's coming off the injury, but Greenway positionally has been much much worse this year than even in the past. 

Maybe last year it wasn't a disaster. Putting him with types in temporarily, with this year, with how he's playing, it made zero sense... And the results last night showed.

And remember, they were out there against Calgary. They're not back on their heels, playing Colorado's first line, or a healthy Panthers team. To not generate any offense... Any scoring chances at all... Versus Calgary is beyond unacceptable

What do you mean they generated NO offense?  They scored a goal.  Wait, goes back, checks notes, Greenway was offside and the goal was negated.  Eh, nevermind.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

The problem is he has shown zero signs of changing. 

He wants things his way, he's probably more stubborn and less open to outside suggestions... It appears in even most other billionaire owners. 

And as long as he has the bills... He has one professional sports team that he can turn his head towards and look at when things are on fire with the Sabres he doesn't care. 

It's like... He would rather lose doing things his way with him involved in decisions... Rather than win but have to admit he's been wrong and do things where he has less control or input.

The guy won't even make a public appearance, he won't even do a press conference, for years. (Not that that's the worst thing in the world seeing how he bumbles and stumbles through them)

Accountability? Why should anyone in this franchise be accountable..from the coaches to the general manager to the scouts to the players... When the biggest coward with the least accountability is the guy signing the checks.

You and I have the same view about this weird owner. His non-responsiveness is a demonstration of his contempt for the fans and paying customers. He’s essentially giving us the finger. His arrogance is tough to stomach. 

[Pimlach]

0-3-0 so far.  Three road games to go.
 

Last night was so aggravating to watch.  Two terrible teams were out there, but the Sabres were definitely worse.   Watching the interviews, they think they played good enough to win,  the problems run deep.  The coach and the “best players” don’t get it and are in denial.   

[SabresVet]

The 13 game winless streak last year started on 11/27.  Year before that it was a 5-9-2 stretch from 11/30 to the end of the year.  

Already looks like this year's downward spiral started on 12/3 with the Philadelphia loss. 

Nothing short of the GM getting fired AND some pieces need to be moved will move the needle.  

Because at this point, the owner can't motivate properly and they're largely blocked out Ruff. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

It’s a futile exercise to go into detail about which players are not contributing to this poorly matched roster. The sabotaging problem isn’t about any particular player as it is the hollow organization led by the invisible owner and his handpicked clueless GM.
 
It doesn’t matter in what field of endeavor you are in. When the organization’s primary decision makers are grotesquely incompetent, the outcome is very predictable.

When you have an owner who doesn’t recognize his own hockey ignorance that is glaringly evident to everyone else, then you will continue to fail. 
 

The worst thing that happened to this franchise is that it was bought by Terry Pegula. He may own a big boat but ever since  he took over this franchise has been sinking.

You don’t have to make a deep analysis to come up with such an obvious conclusion. The owner’s obtuseness and stubbornness is enraging. 

 

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

The problem is he has shown zero signs of changing. 

He wants things his way, he's probably more stubborn and less open to outside suggestions... It appears in even most other billionaire owners. 

And as long as he has the bills... He has one professional sports team that he can turn his head towards and look at when things are on fire with the Sabres he doesn't care. 

It's like... He would rather lose doing things his way with him involved in decisions... Rather than win but have to admit he's been wrong and do things where he has less control or input.

The guy won't even make a public appearance, he won't even do a press conference, for years. (Not that that's the worst thing in the world seeing how he bumbles and stumbles through them)

Accountability? Why should anyone in this franchise be accountable..from the coaches to the general manager to the scouts to the players... When the biggest coward with the least accountability is the guy signing the checks.

 

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

You and I have the same view about this weird owner. His non-responsiveness is a demonstration of his contempt for the fans and paying customers. He’s essentially giving us the finger. His arrogance is tough to stomach. 

I just don’t understand the need to see or hear Terry Pegula. He has without a doubt, bombed every press conference he’s had. He’s been ridiculed for it endlessly. What’s his motivation to talk to folks who just mock him subsequently after the conference. 
 

Additionally, nothing short of firing everyone will make fans happy. He’s clearly not going to do that, so what does he have to tell everyone?  I know we suck but I’m pinching pennies with the stadium overrun costs, so maybe next season?  I just don’t get fans obsession with hearing a business owner pass along corporate schlock.  

Edited 2 hours ago by inkman

[St. Pete Gogolak]

Serious question. Facing a one goal deficit, would this team be better off playing 5 v. 5 until the horn instead of pulling the goalie?  Are there any analytics on this?  I understand that it would be hockey blasphemy not to pull the goalie but there’s a lot of old school baseball, football and hockey that have been shown to be wrong. 

[mjd1001]

52 minutes ago, inkman said:

 

 

I just don’t understand the need to see or hear Terry Pegula. He has without a doubt, bombed every press conference he’s had. He’s been ridiculed for it endlessly. What’s his motivation to talk to folks who just mock him subsequently after the conference. 
 

Additionally, nothing short of firing everyone will make fans happy. He’s clearly not going to do that, so what does he have to tell everyone?  I know we suck but I’m pinching pennies with the stadium overrun costs, so maybe next season?  I just don’t get fans obsession with hearing a business owner pass along corporate schlock.  

When I say accountability from the owner, I don't mean him having very frequent long and rambling press conferences. 

I mean him not hiding behind the general manager When things go bad... I mean him making changes, not when it suits its pocketbook but when it's actually needed. (Which by the way, in the long term might actually be good for his pocketbook)

[mjd1001]

28 minutes ago, St. Pete Gogolak said:

Serious question. Facing a one goal deficit, would this team be better off playing 5 v. 5 until the horn instead of pulling the goalie?  Are there any analytics on this?  I understand that it would be hockey blasphemy not to pull the goalie but there’s a lot of old school baseball, football and hockey that have been shown to be wrong. 

The top lines on the sabres over the past couple of years, Tage and Tuch and guys like that, even strength score a goal about once every 16 to 18 minutes. 

If you are pressing but stay even strength, maybe it could be slightly better? Once every 15 minutes? 

If you go by the assumption that the average time when you're down that you pull the goalie is about 2 minutes, that would mean if you never pull the goalie but stay in that situation, you could score a goal once every 6 to 8 games. 

I do not believe Buffalo has scored a goal this entire year 6 on 5. They might have one 6 on 4. 

But to go to your original point, it might not be beyond the realm of possibility to actually say they'd be better off Just pressing really hard but not pulling the goalie.

In addition to that, if you don't pull your goalie, odds are you will not get scored on by the other team with the goalie in the net... And you have that full 2 minutes to press.  If you pull the goaltender though and the other team scores on you 30 seconds later, the game is basically effectively over at that point.

The more I think about it as I write this post, I'd almost say... Do not pull the goalie. Go with four four words and one defenseman, have everyone press the opposing team really hard, and if the puck does go into your zone towards then that have your goalie move it up the ice really quickly. With no empty net to shoot at, you might get more icings from the other team, or if they choose to not ice the puck, they might resort to more clutching and grabbing to protect their lead, which could get you a power play. I legitimately think you might be better off doing this then pulling the goalie.

Even take it one step further. If you have a goaltender that is extremely good at handling the puck, like Ellis, even if he's not starting, you put him in that so he can get the any Puck sent into your own zone back up the ice quicker.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by mjd1001

[Taro T]

57 minutes ago, St. Pete Gogolak said:

Serious question. Facing a one goal deficit, would this team be better off playing 5 v. 5 until the horn instead of pulling the goalie?  Are there any analytics on this?  I understand that it would be hockey blasphemy not to pull the goalie but there’s a lot of old school baseball, football and hockey that have been shown to be wrong. 

Considering how horrible this team is at entries with an outmanned situation, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing.  Personally, would still pull the goalie, but not until they have control of the puck in the other team's zone.

And would have to figure out just what the logistics of it would be, but might get the goalie back in the net when the other team dumps the puck down the ice and repull him after they have control in the other end again.  Would work it a bit like a lax line change, obviously you don't want the goalie being the one trying to retrieve the puck from coming off the bench, but have the 2nd or 3rd guy back into the zone go to the bench instead up near the F's door and as soon as he's off the ice have the goalie race out from the other door.  Let him come up ice towards the bench as the puck goes back up ice, but he doesn't actually go to the bench until they have control.  So, it'd be a hybrid goalie pull.

They'd still give up a fair # of ENGs, but not as many; and maybe the extra mechanics would add to the sense of urgency of the guys on the ice.  At this point am willing to watch them try almost anything provided Appert isn't drawing it up.

[JP51]

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I didn’t stay up but I woke up to 7-4.

Nobody will probably agree but you gotta start this thing over.

Gasoline and a match....