Three headed goalie monster coming to an end?

[shrader]

19 hours ago, Eleven said:

We diverge here.  I think that's exactly what was happening.

My issue is at this point where they are trying to salvage their season, they need to be playing the guy who gives them the best chance at a win.  If they're playing someone else simply to showcase him, that's a mistake.  And if that best chance at a win is also the guy they're showcasing, he shouldn't be on the block at all.

[SabreFinn]

On 12/2/2025 at 11:11 PM, Porous Five Hole said:

Something I find interesting.  From Elliotte Friedman on Friday:

“Luukkonen has asked to play more.”

“You know, Luukkonen wanted to play more.”

While I don’t have a problem with a guy wanting the crease, it’s weird to me that Friedman reported this while talking about the  Sabres. Why is the player’s agent squawking to the media about playing time? What’s the motive?

It’s just weird to me.  

Luukkonen was asked about this by a finnish journalist. He answered that he don't know where Friedmann got it from.  He said that it is obvious every player wants icetime in NHL, and the irregular amount of games is difficult, but they just have to deal with the situation and be ready. He also commented on trade rumors that he like to be a Sabre and don't want a trade. 

[mjd1001]

The 3 goalie thing I think is an issue. You HAVE to move one, dont' sit around and wait for a good deal.

From most interviews over the years I have heard with Goalies, either during their career or after their career, they almost always mention as the #1 guy you want work, you want to play games to get into some kind of 'groove', and as a backup, you need to have a different mentality.  I think Biron even said a few times there are some guys who are BETTER as backups than they would be as #1's, and some #1's, that no matter how good of an attitude they had, simply would not play as well if they got infrequent starts.

Its kinda like with baseball pitchers. Some guys can be releif guys who go in whenver you want them, but other guys almost NEED to be starters. Mentally they want to know what days they will pitch and what days they will have off. Remove them from that role and the may not be as good, let alone they are going to be a lot unhappier with their role.

This isn't a video game where your goalies have 'ratings' and they will play to their ratings no matter how often or infrequently you play them. I think its hurting all 3 goalies, and the team, by prolonging this.

Sometimes I think this front office thinks they are plugging guys into a video game rather than playing 'real life' hockey.

This team, this management causes self-inflicted wounds.

[Archie Lee]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

The 3 goalie thing I think is an issue. You HAVE to move one, dont' sit around and wait for a good deal.

From most interviews over the years I have heard with Goalies, either during their career or after their career, they almost always mention as the #1 guy you want work, you want to play games to get into some kind of 'groove', and as a backup, you need to have a different mentality.  I think Biron even said a few times there are some guys who are BETTER as backups than they would be as #1's, and some #1's, that no matter how good of an attitude they had, simply would not play as well if they got infrequent starts.

Its kinda like with baseball pitchers. Some guys can be releif guys who go in whenver you want them, but other guys almost NEED to be starters. Mentally they want to know what days they will pitch and what days they will have off. Remove them from that role and the may not be as good, let alone they are going to be a lot unhappier with their role.

This isn't a video game where your goalies have 'ratings' and they will play to their ratings no matter how often or infrequently you play them. I think its hurting all 3 goalies, and the team, by prolonging this.

Sometimes I think this front office thinks they are plugging guys into a video game rather than playing 'real life' hockey.

This team, this management causes self-inflicted wounds.

Agreed. Adams often paints himself in a corner. I’m certain his biggest fear is that the goalie he moves goes on to thrive in another environment, while the two he keeps play to middling results. Also, unless he can clear Ellis through waivers, they are one injury away from Levi having to come up, and from the American’s season being turned over to a couple of rookies. 

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, shrader said:

My issue is at this point where they are trying to salvage their season, they need to be playing the guy who gives them the best chance at a win.  If they're playing someone else simply to showcase him, that's a mistake.  And if that best chance at a win is also the guy they're showcasing, he shouldn't be on the block at all.

We don’t know what is going on with the goaltending and neither do they.   We don’t know how the Sabres have them ranked or who is the most tradable.  

After signing Lyon, why did they pick up Georgiev and then Ellis?   UPL was hurt and they know Levi is not ready.  
 

It is going to be hard to evaluate a goalie with the team defense being so bad.  My biggest disappointment in Lindy Ruff has been the way his team plays defense.  They make too many errors,  they play too casual a game in their own end of the rink.  He and his staff have not fixed a root cause problem with this team.  

Edited Saturday at 02:04 PM by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Agreed. Adams often paints himself in a corner. I’m certain his biggest fear is that the goalie he moves goes on to thrive in another environment, while the two he keeps play to middling results. Also, unless he can clear Ellis through waivers, they are one injury away from Levi having to come up, and from the American’s season being turned over to a couple of rookies. 

The goalie he moves will very likely be serviceable on another team.  Bank on that. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

We don’t know what is going on with the goaltending and neither do they.   We don’t know how the Sabres have them ranked or who is the most tradable.  

After signing Lyon, why did they pick up Georgiev and then Ellis?   UPL was hurt and they know Levi is not ready.  
 

It is going to be hard to evaluate a goalie with the team defense being so bad.  My biggest disappointment in Lindy Ruff has been the way his team plays defense.  They make too many errors,  they play too casual a game in their own end of the rink.  He and his staff have not fixed a root cause problem with this team.  

The same guy that is instructing them in HOW to play D is the same guy that was doing so when Granato was the coach.  Granted, that guy's system when he gets adequate goaltending is actually GOOD on the PK (at least it has been through the 1st 1/3 of the season) which is something that wasn't apparent when he was getting below average goaltending.  But it is, has been, and likely always will be horrible at 5v5.

With Ruff only making 2 moves altering the coaching staff in 2 years (1 being demoting Ellis and elevating Appert, and the other being the canning of a S&C coach), totally get being disappointed in how they play in their own end, but when they're getting told by the same people what to do, it really is a bit on the Sabre fan side of things to expect anything different.  Sure, hope for something different, but to expect it, so, so, very Sabrey.

(And, yeah, had hoped things would change under Ruff and even expected them at the time he was hired, but since he didn't make any changes other than using line matchups when available at home, not much has changed.  He does have them playing better to start games than his predecessor did, but even that's not a huge change this year as they're tied for giving up the most 1st goals of the game w/ the Phlyers.  18 times in 28 games.)

Edited Saturday at 06:00 PM by Taro T

[Crusader1969]

So game tomorrow? 6 dmen on the roster and the team in Calgary, where a 7th dman won't get to if someone gets sick or is injured pregame 

That's the best thing that could happen to this team - playing a full game with 5dmen cause they have 3 goalies. 

hockey media across the league would have a field day with that. 

Maybe the laughter gets so loud Terry just has to act?  Probably not but maybe?

[pi2000]

9 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

The 3 goalie thing I think is an issue. You HAVE to move one, dont' sit around and wait for a good deal.

From most interviews over the years I have heard with Goalies, either during their career or after their career, they almost always mention as the #1 guy you want work, you want to play games to get into some kind of 'groove', and as a backup, you need to have a different mentality.  I think Biron even said a few times there are some guys who are BETTER as backups than they would be as #1's, and some #1's, that no matter how good of an attitude they had, simply would not play as well if they got infrequent starts.

Its kinda like with baseball pitchers. Some guys can be releif guys who go in whenver you want them, but other guys almost NEED to be starters. Mentally they want to know what days they will pitch and what days they will have off. Remove them from that role and the may not be as good, let alone they are going to be a lot unhappier with their role.

This isn't a video game where your goalies have 'ratings' and they will play to their ratings no matter how often or infrequently you play them. I think its hurting all 3 goalies, and the team, by prolonging this.

Sometimes I think this front office thinks they are plugging guys into a video game rather than playing 'real life' hockey.

This team, this management causes self-inflicted wounds.

Good post.

IMO Levi is already better than both Lyon and Ellis.

Ellis won't clear waivers?  So what, who cares, he's not the answer.

I'd prefer a Leinonen and Ratzlaff combo in Rochester, and UPL/Levi in Buffalo.

Adams is a moron.

[TheAud]

6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Maybe the laughter gets so loud Terry just has to act?  

[HumanSlinky39]

UPL - He is what he is. An average (at best) NHL backup. He had a pretty good two month stretch two years ago but is largely mediocre. Let's in too many soft goals. Lousy lateral movement and positioning. Horrific rebound control.

Lyon - Was a good story the first couple of weeks but has regressed back to the mean. He's a sub .900 guy who should be used very sparingly if you have ANYONE else.

Ellis - Need to see more. Last few starts haven't been good. Has some skill that is evident, but not sure he's a full-time NHL 'er yet. He should be getting steady starts.

Levi - At some point you need to see what he has. We know what UPL is. We know what Lyon is. Devon needs his chance soon.

[quill]

5 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

So game tomorrow? 6 dmen on the roster and the team in Calgary, where a 7th dman won't get to if someone gets sick or is injured pregame 

That's the best thing that could happen to this team - playing a full game with 5dmen cause they have 3 goalies. 

hockey media across the league would have a field day with that. 

Maybe the laughter gets so loud Terry just has to act?  Probably not but maybe?

Speaking of hockey media it would be nice if the sports media in Buffalo was half as tough as the media in the big market cities whenever the home team plays lousy for too many years. If a team like the Sabres was in a city like NY, Philly, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, etc, the media there wouldn't pull any punches in pressuring ownership to clean house and do it sooner than later.

[pastajoe]

3 minutes ago, quill said:

Speaking of hockey media it would be nice if the sports media in Buffalo was half as tough as the media in the big market cities whenever the home team plays lousy for too many years. If a team like the Sabres was in a city like NY, Philly, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, etc, the media there wouldn't pull any punches in pressuring ownership to clean house and do it sooner than later.

How do you propose the media pressure ownership? Paul Hamilton and Mike Harrington have been criticizing Pegula for years. And it’s been years since Terry had a press conference to answer their questions. Buffalo has one newspaper and one sports radio station. Everyone on there has said Pegula needs to clean house. The only people who can pressure Pegula are the people who keep buying tickets to see an inferior product.

[quill]

11 hours ago, pastajoe said:

How do you propose the media pressure ownership? Paul Hamilton and Mike Harrington have been criticizing Pegula for years. And it’s been years since Terry had a press conference to answer their questions. Buffalo has one newspaper and one sports radio station. Everyone on there has said Pegula needs to clean house. The only people who can pressure Pegula are the people who keep buying tickets to see an inferior product.

Pegula doesn't seem to be too worried about the huge number of empty seats in the arena lately. At the very least it's a tax write-off for him, so I'm not buying it that people not buying tickets are the only thing that will pressure him to clean house. I think you do make a good point about Hamilton and Harrington speaking up, though. 

[JohnC]

On 12/6/2025 at 9:07 AM, Pimlach said:

The goalie he moves will very likely be serviceable on another team.  Bank on that. 

I wouldn't be bothered if a dealt goalie is serviceable or even does well on another team. So what? The strategy that the shallow GM is taking with respect to determining which goalie or goalies to keep is self-defeating. By keeping three of them instead of the usual two goalies on the roster, he is putting all of them in a position to fail because of the lack of steady work. UPL has had enough time to demonstrate what level of goalie he is. There will be games where he will shine, just enough to tantalize you. Then he will revert into true his baseline level of being a pedestrian goalie. 

If I had to make a judgment on which goalie will turn out to be the best of the current trio, I would say Ellis. But I don't say it with much conviction. It should also be noted that Levi is in Rochester, and it appears he has recently been on a bumpy road. But even so, if the dullard GM keeps two instead of three goalies on the big club roster, he still has a fallback position of bringing up Levi if a goalie is hurt.

It shouldn't be a surprise that a third-rate organization with third-rate decision makers make third-rate decisions. When you shoot yourself in the foot it shouldn't be surprising that you limp. A lot of people don't know that the Sabres were the inspiration for the making of a movie. It was called: Dumb and dumber. And unsurprisingly, it had more box office success than the Sabres have had on the ice. 

Edited Sunday at 04:26 PM by JohnC

[John Tucker]

On 12/2/2025 at 1:52 PM, oddoublee said:

Is it that clear? Seems to me UPL faces far less shots per 60 which could indicate many things....one of which they place a less aggressive system in front of him. IDK for certain.

Lyon, outside his last 3 starts had a far better quality start rate than either of them. 

We have 3 good backup goalies...none of which have truly separated themselves as the best backup....UNLESS you factor in money....making UPL possibly the worst option. 

At first glance I thought this said feces... Would've been more fitting

[BullBuchanan]

Trade UPL
Marry Levi
**** Lyon

[BullBuchanan]

On 12/7/2025 at 9:29 AM, quill said:

Pegula doesn't seem to be too worried about the huge number of empty seats in the arena lately. At the very least it's a tax write-off for him, so I'm not buying it that people not buying tickets are the only thing that will pressure him to clean house.

You know you still lose at least 60% on a write-off, right? Usually a lot more too depending on the category.

Edited yesterday at 04:23 PM by BullBuchanan

[Doohickie]

On 12/4/2025 at 6:17 PM, pi2000 said:

I have no issue with them trading UPL, but only under certain conditions....

1. They're either out of the playoff race or a starting goalie is included in the return (or something else happens that nets them an actual starting goalie)
2. They don't retain any of UPL's salary
3. The offer is too good to refuse

...if they're still within reach of a playoff spot and UPL shows some consistency, then it's probably best they keep him.

One other thing... there's folks here worried about the possibility of Ellis getting claimed if Buffalo attempts to assign him to Rochester via waivers.    He's not that good, I just don't understand the concern there. 

Now, now, now, Kevyn....

[Pimlach]

On 12/2/2025 at 12:39 PM, pi2000 said:

League wide rankings since Nov 1st for goalies who have played at least 185 mins (66 goalies)....

UPL (416 min)
Sv% 21st
GAA 18th
HighDanger SV% 36th
MediumDanger SV% 15th
LowDanger SV% 13th
Goals Saved Above Expected/60 21st

Ellis (303 min)
Sv% 39th
GAA 52nd
High Danger SV% 58th
MediumDanger SV% 48th
LowDanger SV% 31st
Goals Saved Above Expected/60 39th

Lyon (185 min)
Sv% 59th
GAA 64th
High Danger SV% 50th
MediumDanger SV% 28th
LowDanger SV% 61st
Goals Saved Above Expected/60 61st

UPL has separated himself, he should be the clear #1 moving forward. 

A decision needs to be made on the backup. 

UPL has separated himself alright.  But not in the way you thought.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Pimlach

[St. Pete Gogolak]

Why not simply waive UPL?  If some team by some miracle claims him, you’ve cleared a bad contract off the books.  If he refuses to report to Rochester and decides to return to Finland, you’ve cleared a bad contract off your books (I assume that’s how it works).  Am I missing something here?

[Demoted]

So where is Levi at? How is he not ready for the NHL?

[Archie Lee]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

UPL has separated himself alright.  But in the way you thought.  

He has not been good enough and has flipped between average and downright bad. You can almost always find a mistake that led to the chance that led to a goal.  But a goalie can also make a save. Too often, UPL has not made the save that gives the team a chance 

That said, there is a pall that has set over the team that goes well beyond an underachieving goalie. It is reminiscent of how the team played prior to Krueger getting fired. I recall Granato telling the team when he took over, that being on a last place NHL team is not the worst thing that will happen in your life. Then he backed that up by setting a new path for how to play. The Sabres have needed that for some time now. There were moments this year where a change in coaching might have given new life and made a difference. Pegula and Adams are intent on punting this season though. 

[JoeSchmoe]

6 minutes ago, St. Pete Gogolak said:

Why not simply waive UPL?  If some team by some miracle claims him, you’ve cleared a bad contract off the books.  If he refuses to report to Rochester and decides to return to Finland, you’ve cleared a bad contract off your books (I assume that’s how it works).  Am I missing something here?

He's going to want the money and will stay. Without question.

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, Demoted said:

So where is Levi at? How is he not ready for the NHL?

He may never be?