Here we go again…..Kevyn

[PromoTheRobot]

49 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The Sabres facilities are not substandard. Are they the very best? No, but one thing Terry gets the minimalist of credit for is renovating the locker room and player areas. Having an entire hotel with 2 ice rinks connected to your home arena is pretty sweet. 

Harborcenter is only 11 years old and was the state of the art when it opened. It was nice enough for the entire league to hold their combine there. To act like it's an eyesore is just expressing frustration. Are you saying better places were built in the last 11 years? I'm shocked!  

Edited 2 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[FrenchConnection44]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The problem with the Sabres revolves around talent and roster construction. The origin of those deficiencies has to do with the GM and staffing in general. 
 

The caliber of the facilities has nothing to do with this failed franchise. Pervasive organizational ineptitude, starting with the non- talking owner , is the sole reason why this franchise has been sunk for a generation. It should be noted that the players who worked their way out of this sad-sack franchise cited a chance to win and not the quality of the facilities as the reason to get out of dodge.

Not just talent and roster construction. 

Culture. Talent is important but culture is even bigger, imo. You don't have to have a McDavid to win. You can bring in talent to this culture and it loses. You let talent go to a better culture and it wins. That starts with a president / GM who can dictate what that culture will be and build talent geared toward that. You see that in Florida (kind of a revision of the broad street bullies). You've seen it, generally, in Boston, the Avalanche (Sakic is the rare ex star player who makes a good exec but he has developed a solid winning culture for going on 9 years now), and a few other organizations. 

You see it in the NFL. The Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Eagles, and a few other teams for shorter periods (e.g., Rams, Niners, Bills -- though I think Josh Allen is the real factor) have had long standing cultures and team identities in place. While those teams may have down years, they have an identity. If they get a decent QB they are going to be good. Generally, you know if you are going to play the Steelers or Ravens it's going to be physical. So with the Eagles. And the Packers are going to run an efficient, balanced offense, generally. 

 

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Anyone buying the Sabres will be moving them. No one is spending a billion-plus to keep the team here.

True, I guess this is something I have to say 'be careful what we wish for'

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Palm Trees And Taxes said:

True, I guess this is something I have to say 'be careful what we wish for'

What we really want is for Terry to hire a (please, God) competent PoHO and then spend money but get out of flippin' the way. And if finances are tight because of the new stadium or what have you, sell some minority stakes in the Sabres. There's probably an easy $400MMM right there.

Edited 2 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What we really want is for Terry to hire a (please, God) competent PoHO and then spend money but get out of flippin' the way. And if finances are tight because of the new stadium or what have you, sell some minority stakes in the Sabres. There's probably an easy $400MMM right there.

Brendan Shanahan?

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Palm Trees And Taxes said:

Brendan Shanahan?

That's a name being floated. Baker and Fairburn said as bad as the Sabres are, there are people who'd still come here to run the team.

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's a name being floated. Baker and Fairburn said as bad as the Sabres are, there are people who'd still come here to run the team.

Sabres are an attractive option in that it can't get any worse and one can really make a name for themselves in Buffalo if they get us turned around into a perennial playoff team. It's all about Terry allowing the POHO to do their thing, give him full reign and be in the background.

[Thorny]

Kevyn Adams woke up today and got back to the grind

An inexorable force of raw nature. If you have the ability to perceive anything at all, you can rest assured that Kevyn Adams is still relentlessly employed, pushing the boundaries of ineptitude further in the role than they have ever been pushed

“Greatness inspires envy, envy engenders spite, spite spawns lies. You must know this, poor Sabres fan.” 

“You call it ‘greatness,’ what you have been doing, do you?” asked the Sabres fan delicately.

“Certainly,” said Adams, and his eyes seemed to burn red.

“I have experimented; I have pushed the boundaries of evaluation years and team building further, perhaps, than they have ever been pushed -”

 “Of some kinds of team building,” the fan corrected him quietly. “Of some. Of others, you remain…forgive me…woefully ignorant.”

[Thorny]

43 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Not just talent and roster construction. 

Culture. Talent is important but culture is even bigger, imo. You don't have to have a McDavid to win. You can bring in talent to this culture and it loses. You let talent go to a better culture and it wins. That starts with a president / GM who can dictate what that culture will be and build talent geared toward that. You see that in Florida (kind of a revision of the broad street bullies). You've seen it, generally, in Boston, the Avalanche (Sakic is the rare ex star player who makes a good exec but he has developed a solid winning culture for going on 9 years now), and a few other organizations. 

You see it in the NFL. The Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Eagles, and a few other teams for shorter periods (e.g., Rams, Niners, Bills -- though I think Josh Allen is the real factor) have had long standing cultures and team identities in place. While those teams may have down years, they have an identity. If they get a decent QB they are going to be good. Generally, you know if you are going to play the Steelers or Ravens it's going to be physical. So with the Eagles. And the Packers are going to run an efficient, balanced offense, generally. 

 

The sad irony that Adams essential mandate was fixing the culture and he’s made it oh so much worse than it ever was 

that’s what a long form rebuild tacked on to 9 years already missing will do

for the record, no sabres GM has missed the playoffs more than 3 times in a row, all time, besides Adams. Who’s on track to double it  

definitively the worst sabres GM of all time 

Edited 1 hour ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's a name being floated. Baker and Fairburn said as bad as the Sabres are, there are people who'd still come here to run the team.

Baker is a total knob but he’s correct here I think. There will always be Alphas who are intrigued by the challenge 

27 minutes ago, Palm Trees And Taxes said:

Sabres are an attractive option in that it can't get any worse and one can really make a name for themselves in Buffalo if they get us turned around into a perennial playoff team. It's all about Terry allowing the POHO to do their thing, give him full reign and be in the background.

That’s a good point too 

[JohnC]

49 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Not just talent and roster construction. 

Culture. Talent is important but culture is even bigger, imo. You don't have to have a McDavid to win. You can bring in talent to this culture and it loses. You let talent go to a better culture and it wins. That starts with a president / GM who can dictate what that culture will be and build talent geared toward that. You see that in Florida (kind of a revision of the broad street bullies). You've seen it, generally, in Boston, the Avalanche (Sakic is the rare ex star player who makes a good exec but he has developed a solid winning culture for going on 9 years now), and a few other organizations. 

You see it in the NFL. The Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Eagles, and a few other teams for shorter periods (e.g., Rams, Niners, Bills -- though I think Josh Allen is the real factor) have had long standing cultures and team identities in place. While those teams may have down years, they have an identity. If they get a decent QB they are going to be good. Generally, you know if you are going to play the Steelers or Ravens it's going to be physical. So with the Eagles. And the Packers are going to run an efficient, balanced offense, generally. 

 

In general, we are in accord. Roster construction is inextricably linked to the culture on the team. As you point out, it is not simply about accumulating talent as it is getting the right talent/people in the room. In any line of work, getting the wrong mix of people can become detrimental to the atmosphere that also takes away from the production of the right people in the room. Having the right mix also applies to the staffing within the organization. If not, you are going to have internal conflict that affects the output of the franchise. There will be too much push/pull instead of everyone understanding the necessity of moving in the same direction. 

The problem with the Sabres is that it is headed by a third-rate owner who put together a third-rate organization. Until the organization is properly staffed with the right people, it will continue to falter. It isn't about luck or unluck ---- it's about competency. There should be no surprise that a hollowed-out organization staffed by feebly talented people results in failure. It starts with the owner!

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

There should be no surprise that a hollowed-out organization staffed by feebly talented people results in failure. It starts with the owner!

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

 If you check out youtube, there are videos on 'practice facilities' showing a lot of this.

-Florida, Salt Lake, Seattle.

https://www.nhl.com/news/utah-arena-practice-facility-crazy-nice

There are spacious locker, training, equipment and meeting rooms, of course. There is natural light in the rinks, and there are glass walls and collaborative spaces in the offices. The flow creates what Tourigny calls "constant collisions," people naturally running into each other, coming together.

There is a recovery lounge, including massage chairs, an infrared bed and a sensory deprivation room. There is a hydrotherapy area, including a pool with reverse currents and an underwater treadmill. Guenther said he has used it -- not for rehab, just to try it out. Apparently, the guys, being guys, have had swim meets.

The weight room alone is 8,000 square feet. It's so big, Chris Armstrong said, a player asked, "What other team are we sharing this with?" It has a strip of black artificial turf long enough to run 40-yard dashes.

Just off the weight room is a barber shop. That's right. A barber shop. There are two barber chairs, and the team will bring in a barber a couple of days a week.

"I was visiting another team, and they had one in their facility, and it was just another great point of camaraderie," Chris Armstrong said. "You've got a guy in the chair, a couple guys waiting, a couple guys in the doorway, and they're shooting the [bull]. Hey, this is another congregating point, another reason to stay here longer and be more invested in what we're all doing."

CNBC did the segment a couple months ago saying how pro sports teams all over the world are adding these things (pools, Massage areas, private parking facilities with services to take care of your car as you take a golf cart to practice)

Its not all hockey facilities that have them, some colleges (Nebraska), and some Europen league soccer teams. Its all in an effort to attract the best players and coaches.

Seattle has multiple videos of theirs where it is open Kraken family members, and even some public events.

As for the pools, Utah has a smaller one.  The Lakers along with other NBA teams have ones that are larger. The Lakers even have the facilities open for community events. 

This is what new, rich, (generally) younger owners are doing.

If you watch enough of the below videos, Youtube AI should figure out you are watching this stuff and recommend a lot more like them.

 

 

 

So it's mostly basketball and football? 

What is it you want Terry to build is my question?

Buffalo could build the Taj Mahal and they'd still be behind NYC, Toronto, Boston, Tampa, as destinations. Geography and size is what it is. 

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So it's mostly basketball and football? 

What is it you want Terry to build is my question?

Buffalo could build the Taj Mahal and they'd still be behind NYC, Toronto, Boston, Tampa, as destinations. Geography and size is what it is. 

It's not basketball and football. I'm not sure why you're not reading my post. The ones I know about are Florida, salt lake City, and Seattle that I posted videos for. 

I don't have the link of it but the CNBC money in ports special talked about all sports and they said that all owners, including NHL owners, are looking to put more money into this in the future.

I'm not saying winning. Doesn't matter, but Buffalo trails those other cities in winning... And weather... And market size.... So if you want to be successful this is one area that you would think they actually can exploit and not fall behind. 

Darren draeger was just on a appearance in Canada.. yesterday I believe and he mentioned the sabers building... I assume the key Bank center.. is becoming a liability. 

Facilities aren't everything, but they matter. The sabers training facilities, and the arena where they play are becoming a liability. Is it a small liability? Maybe, but this franchise can't fall any further behind... Especially when you have a multi-billionaire owner.

[EM88]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

It's not basketball and football. I'm not sure why you're not reading my post. The ones I know about are Florida, salt lake City, and Seattle that I posted videos for. 

I don't have the link of it but the CNBC money in ports special talked about all sports and they said that all owners, including NHL owners, are looking to put more money into this in the future.

I'm not saying winning. Doesn't matter, but Buffalo trails those other cities in winning... And weather... And market size.... So if you want to be successful this is one area that you would think they actually can exploit and not fall behind. 

Darren draeger was just on a appearance in Canada.. yesterday I believe and he mentioned the sabers building... I assume the key Bank center.. is becoming a liability. 

Facilities aren't everything, but they matter. The sabers training facilities, and the arena where they play are becoming a liability. Is it a small liability? Maybe, but this franchise can't fall any further behind... Especially when you have a multi-billionaire owner.

I do not have any videos to post, but I also have seen some shorts on social media with various franchises, including NHL cities, where owners are pouring money into training facilities to make them nicer and more appealing to players and employees.

The common theme is it can give a team an advantage when it comes to recruiting free agents and coaches and convincing them to stay.  

If every time you go to work, you could hang out in a place where everything looks new, is nice, has great food and near spa like facilities, those things would or could be a deciding factor in how much you like your work environment.