Layout Your Offseason Plan

[mjd1001]

I'm not really intersted in Hellebuyck. Not for what it would probably cost.  Yes, I want the team to get better, but I am enjoying the 'ride up' with seeing the current guys get better.

Now, if Winnipeg and Hellebuyck would do something crazy like trade him for UPL, a 2nd, and one of the lower level prospects, AND Hellebuyck is willing to sign a 2-3 year extension for no more than $7..then sure do it. But if it cost more than that (and i'm pretty sure it WOULD cost more than that), I'm Ok with staying on the current path.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

4-6 years is a tad overkill. I’m not interested in paying a goalie 7mil +

top goalies cost that much, going cheaper is not the answer, and going forward it's not going to get cheaper

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/positional/goaltender/

 

not sure why 4  to 6 years is overkill for a top quality net minder

Edited May 16, 2023 by ddaryl

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Would you be willing to trade for Helly if you can't get him to sign an extension? I wouldn't. It's just my opinion that I believe that our GM is invested in Levi being his #1 goalie this upcoming season. And again, it is my opinion that the GM is willing to stick with the trio of goalies that he has under contract. We'll just have to wait and see how this unfolds. The focus of my attention this offseason will be on the blueline.

I happen to agree with everything you say here. I would only want him for the year, it certainly can't hurt the Sabres any to have Hellebyuck/Levi net tandem for 1 yr, imo. The cost should be measured to such. That year affords 30 to 35 games of Levi, allowing him not to be over burdened early on. But yes, the blueline most definitely should take precedence, I concur.

[Weave]

37 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I happen to agree with everything you say here. I would only want him for the year, it certainly can't hurt the Sabres any to have Hellebyuck/Levi net tandem for 1 yr, imo. The cost should be measured to such. That year affords 30 to 35 games of Levi, allowing him not to be over burdened early on. But yes, the blueline most definitely should take precedence, I concur.

What is your plan for the following year if Levi proves not ready for #1 duty?

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 minutes ago, Weave said:

What is your plan for the following year if Levi proves not ready for #1 duty?

Correct, which is why a 1-year contract doesn't work.  I would like a 3-year deal for the veteran partner with Levi.  I'd like the Sabres to draft another goalie this draft to have two solid prospects coming up through the system to hopefully be ready to be Levi's backup when the vet's contract expires.

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://theathletic.com/4522861/2023/05/16/nhl-playoffs-free-agency-ufas/

Interesting discussion on which players helped their UFA status with their playoff performance.  

Some notes on players of interest to us.

Compher - stock down.  Great in a 3rd line role, but wasn't effective as a top 6 forward

Barbashev - stock up.  Hard-nosed player who has played great on Eichel's line.  Type of grinder teams need in the playoffs to succeed.

Damon Severson - stock neutral - excellent in the regular season suppressing opponent offense 5 on 5, but had a spotty playoffs.

Dmitry Orlov - stock up.  "Time in Boston really highlighted his play in transition and offensive ability in addition to the defense he's become known for."

Vladislav Gavrikov - stock up.  Shut down D who has very effective in the playoffs when slotted correctly.

Luke Schenn - stock up. "Schenn’s underlying numbers were stellar and the Leafs outscored opponents 10-2 during his five-on-five minutes in the playoffs."

Joonas Korpisalo - stock down.  Had a great regular season with a .913 save % on a terrible defensive CBJ team. Solid for the Kings after a deadline deal, but struggled in the playoffs after a hot start.

Adin Hill - stock up - Solid regular season and has been great in the playoffs with Brossoit injured.

 

I thought at the end of the season that Orlov is the right guy to add to this D group.  Transition play, solid defense, veteran Cup winning leadership, and the Russian factor to help mentor our bushel of young Russian prospects.

Edited May 16, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://theathletic.com/4522861/2023/05/16/nhl-playoffs-free-agency-ufas/

Interesting discussion on which players helped their UFA status with their playoff performance.  

Some notes on players of interest to us.

Compher - stock down.  Great in a 3rd line role, but wasn't effective as a top 6 forward

Barbashev - stock up.  Hard-nosed player who has played great on Eichel's line.  Type of grinder teams need in the playoffs to succeed.

Damon Severson - stock neutral - excellent in the regular season suppressing opponent offense 5 on 5, but had a spotty playoffs.

Dmitry Orlov - stock up.  "Time in Boston really highlighted his play in transition and offensive ability in addition to the defense he's become known for."

Vladislav Gavrikov - stock up.  Shut down D who has very effective in the playoffs when slotted correctly.

Luke Schenn - stock up. "Schenn’s underlying numbers were stellar and the Leafs outscored opponents 10-2 during his five-on-five minutes in the playoffs."

Joonas Korpisalo - stock down.  Had a great regular season with a .913 save % on a terrible defensive CBJ team. Solid for the Kings after a deadline deal, but struggled in the playoffs after a hot start.

Adin Hill - stock up - Solid regular season and has been great in the playoffs with Brossoit injured.

 

I thought at the end of the season that Orlov is the right guy to add to this D group.  Transition play, solid defense, veteran Cup winning leadership, and the Russian factor to help mentor our bushel of young Russian prospects.

What do you think Orlov's contract will look like? Just something to consider: Would it be better to sign two 4/5 defensemen at a moderate cost or spend heavy on a #4 and second pairing defenseman. I lean toward quantity over quality in our situation. I prefer two new players on that unit rather than one. 

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

What is your plan for the following year if Levi proves not ready for #1 duty?

That is something I thought of as well. I admit, the answer is elusive if Levi isn't ready by the turn of the next off season. And yes, I'm full aware Adam's looks long term. If the rumor is true and the Sabres are interested in Hellebyuck, I did surmise a long term contract could be in the cards. He'll be 30 at the start of the season, I'm guessing he's looking at his sunset contract, 7 years? 37 at the end of it maybe? I can't see him wanting a 2 or 3 year deal. It's a great question though Weave, and 1 that does eat at me, especially with that median age I posted on earlier about goalies taking the reigns. I also asked myself if there was a better option out there, that would be in the Sabres rumor mill as interested as well. But again, your question is a real conversation for pros and cons, and admittedly, I haven't an answer. So many variables, will Helle stay peak through his 30's? Can a contract have an out option say at yr 4, a limited NMC/NTC and so on? Great conversation to be had.

[GASabresIUFAN]

52 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What do you think Orlov's contract will look like? Just something to consider: Would it be better to sign two 4/5 defensemen at a moderate cost or spend heavy on a #4 and second pairing defenseman. I lean toward quantity over quality in our situation. I prefer two new players on that unit rather than one. 

The better question is what is a top 4 D worth to the Sabres that can skate, aid the transition game while also playing solid in zone D, mentor a young D group, provide Cup Winning experience, and be an ambassador to our pipeline of young Russians?  The answer is probably 6 mill a year for 5 years.  I'd sign him to that tomorrow if he'll come.

We can easily afford that contract and another contract for an 8th D.

Edited May 16, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, ddaryl said:

top goalies cost that much, going cheaper is not the answer, and going forward it's not going to get cheaper

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/positional/goaltender/

 

not sure why 4  to 6 years is overkill for a top quality net minder

 

From an advanced stats perspective, how does Hill compare to Helleybuyck?

[LabattBlue]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

I have no problem with it. The main driver of improvement is going to come from the young players already on the roster. My main concern is to add talent to the blueline this offseason. That's where my attention will be. The model that we seem to be following is the Jersey Devil formula. That team took a major leap forward because the accumulation of highly drafted players matured as a group. There is no reason why we can't have that same success next season with our young and talented group.

So how did Timo Meier, Ondrej Palat, Dougie Hamilton, Eric Haula, Vitek Vanacek become “key” parts of the Devils roster on a team built from developing prospects?

 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

 

From an advanced stats perspective, how does Hill compare to Helleybuyck?

someone else would have to figure that out... Not even sure what advanced metrics we would be looking at

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

So how did Timo Meier, Ondrej Palat, Dougie Hamilton, Eric Haula, Vitek Vanacek become “key” parts of the Devils roster on a team built from developing prospects?

 

Are you denying that the number of accumulated first round picks were the main reason why that team made that leap forward? 

[Thorny]

On 5/15/2023 at 5:14 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

To acquire Helle wouldn’t make sense without an extension, but would go against his stated goal of not blocking a prospects.  Levi is KA’s guy.  

If Helle he 2-3 years left on his deal, I’d be all for acquiring him and we’d have our Ullmark/Swayman type tandem, but without cost certainty and more than one season guaranteed I wouldn’t make the deal.

People take the “block” thing way too far. Not in the sprit of the statement. What it means is you don’t want to block out a prospect with a work-a-day player who represents minimal improvement at the expense of LT gain. it does mean, “I don’t want this all star because it’ll stop me from developing this second liner” etc

Hellebuyck is a top 3 goalie in the world.

”a Ferrari is a Ferrari, but this mystery box could be anything! It could even be a Ferrari!” 

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Are you denying that the number of accumulated first round picks were the main reason why that team made that leap forward? 

List all the 1st round picks drafted by the Devils, and I will let you know. 

[thewookie1]

10 hours ago, ddaryl said:

top goalies cost that much, going cheaper is not the answer, and going forward it's not going to get cheaper

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/positional/goaltender/

 

not sure why 4  to 6 years is overkill for a top quality net minder

We don’t need an issue to arise where we sign Helle to a 5x8mil contract and Levi plays well enough to be the starter and suddenly you have Levi being a offer-sheet candidate after his two years.  

[Thorny]

Why do people always name drop Hasek in this sense? He’s the greatest goalie *of all time.* Yes, he’d look good everywhere 

[Marvin]

Just now, ScorpionZero said:

Here's the problem with goaltenders and Thier perceived greatness. 

There's many things to consider what makes them great, who's the defenders in front of them, what type of system does the team play, and the level of competition they face. 

Do you think Hasek would've been as great as he was if he wasn't playing behind a tight checking, aggressive, defensive philosophy that was employed at the time he was here. I doubt it, I'm not bashing on Hasek but all things are relative and need to be taken into consideration.

 

 

Huh?  I had season tickets from 1995-2004.  In most of Hasek's years, the Sabres played an all-out offence because they could trust Hasek to cover their ***** while the forwards cheated towards offence because our top scorers got HALF of what other teams' scorers got.  I used to laugh at how many odd-man rushes and how much zone time that the Sabres would concede -- particularly in the 2nd period on the road.

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, ScorpionZero said:

Here's the problem with goaltenders and Thier perceived greatness. 

There's many things to consider what makes them great, who's the defenders in front of them, what type of system does the team play, and the level of competition they face. 

Do you think Hasek would've been as great as he was if he wasn't playing behind a tight checking, aggressive, defensive philosophy that was employed at the time he was here. I doubt it, I'm not bashing on Hasek but all things are relative and need to be taken into consideration.

 

 

Hasek looked just fine when the team in front of him included LaFontaine, Mogilny and Hawerchuck too.

[Hank]

I want VO traded for D help and Girgs and OK gone. I'd like to see them start the year with -

 

Skinner -Tage - Quinn

Savoie - Cusins - Tuch

Peterka - Mitts - Kulich

Rousek -Krebs - Greenway

Jost

[Taro T]

41 minutes ago, ScorpionZero said:

Here's the problem with goaltenders and Thier perceived greatness. 

There's many things to consider what makes them great, who's the defenders in front of them, what type of system does the team play, and the level of competition they face. 

Do you think Hasek would've been as great as he was if he wasn't playing behind a tight checking, aggressive, defensive philosophy that was employed at the time he was here. I doubt it, I'm not bashing on Hasek but all things are relative and need to be taken into consideration.

 

 

F### Yes.

He was the greatest goaltender of all time and he dominated in the 3rd best league in the world when he was young.  He dominated at every level he played.  Not his fault Belfour had one of the best rookie seasons ever right when he was getting into the Blackhawks organization keeping him from getting a true shot at their top job nor his fault that Muckler couldn't look past the playing style and simply look at the results.

He played pretty d*mn well in Detroit and in Otterland too.

[ddaryl]

11 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

We don’t need an issue to arise where we sign Helle to a 5x8mil contract and Levi plays well enough to be the starter and suddenly you have Levi being a offer-sheet candidate after his two years.  

That could come into play....never gave that mucht hought as I just figured Levi is an RFA... but you are correct someone can offer a large contract....

 

[Pimlach]

21 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://theathletic.com/4522861/2023/05/16/nhl-playoffs-free-agency-ufas/

Interesting discussion on which players helped their UFA status with their playoff performance.  

Some notes on players of interest to us.

Compher - stock down.  Great in a 3rd line role, but wasn't effective as a top 6 forward

Barbashev - stock up.  Hard-nosed player who has played great on Eichel's line.  Type of grinder teams need in the playoffs to succeed.

Damon Severson - stock neutral - excellent in the regular season suppressing opponent offense 5 on 5, but had a spotty playoffs.

Dmitry Orlov - stock up.  "Time in Boston really highlighted his play in transition and offensive ability in addition to the defense he's become known for."

Vladislav Gavrikov - stock up.  Shut down D who has very effective in the playoffs when slotted correctly.

Luke Schenn - stock up. "Schenn’s underlying numbers were stellar and the Leafs outscored opponents 10-2 during his five-on-five minutes in the playoffs."

Joonas Korpisalo - stock down.  Had a great regular season with a .913 save % on a terrible defensive CBJ team. Solid for the Kings after a deadline deal, but struggled in the playoffs after a hot start.

Adin Hill - stock up - Solid regular season and has been great in the playoffs with Brossoit injured.

 

I thought at the end of the season that Orlov is the right guy to add to this D group.  Transition play, solid defense, veteran Cup winning leadership, and the Russian factor to help mentor our bushel of young Russian prospects.

Barbashev is an intriguing guy to add, especially of Girgs is not retained.  

Orlov was good with Boston but not sure he is the right guy for a young team.  What do you know about him to think he will work mentor prospects in Rochester when he is in playing in Buffalo?  

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Barbashev is an intriguing guy to add, especially of Girgs is not retained.  

Orlov was good with Boston but not sure he is the right guy for a young team.  What do you know about him to think he will work mentor prospects in Rochester when he is in playing in Buffalo?  

The same way Lyubushkin mentored Kisakov this summer as outlined in the Athletic today.   It’s not like Rochester is 3000 miles from Buffalo.  
 

Orlov understands from his time in Washington what it means to help young Russians settle in in NA and how to create an environment where these guys can thrive.  With so many Russian prospects coming we need a Russian veteran who will be here more than two years to be a resource for them. 

[Pimlach]

On 5/16/2023 at 7:37 AM, JohnC said:

I'm not giving away Kulich or Savoie in such a trade, especially if you don't have a goalie such as Helly signed to an extension. If the GM was going to trade away its first pick, I would rather see it dealt for a second pairing defenseman. 

Our GM has been very transparent in how he operates. I'm understating the obvious that he is very reluctant to depart with high end prospects such as Savoie and Kulich. When he pursued a Chycrun deal at the trade deadline he was willing to give up a first round pick for him but wouldn't also give up one of those prized prospects. It should be noted that he was willing to pursue a Chycrun deal because it had specific aspects to it. The young defenseman was playing under a reasonable contract that also had term. 

I strongly believe that our GM is going to stick with the trio of goalies that he has in his system i.e., Levi, UPL and Comrie. Is it a risk? Yes. If you want to improve the goaltending, then a backdoor approach to accomplish that might be to bulk up the blueline. 

 

Your point is taken, Adams did not trade Savoie or Kulich for Chyckrun who had term, so why would he trade either one of them for Hellebyuck and no term.  Beside we have Levi.  At most he will look for a stop gap proven vet that can be a 1B/2 (that was supposed to be Comrie), or he sticks with UPL.  

Improving the blueline will help the goaltending, but only to a point.  

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Pimlach