GDT: Rangers at Sabres, Saturday, March 11, 2023, 5:07 p.m., MSG

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Right. Just a reminder that the 23/24 Sabres could be another rookie-heavy roster.

No, it won't be. There may be rookies who will be called up due to injuries. But I doubt any rookie will make the opening day roster. If you think otherwise, who do you think will make the opening day roster? Our roster is starting to fill-up to the point where there will be competition for roster spots that won't include rookie players. That's how I see it. 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

We’ll certainly have to keep expectations reasonable, then 

Something this place is known for.

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No, it won't be. There may be rookies who will be called up due to injuries. But I doubt any rookie will make the opening day roster. If you think otherwise, who do you think will make the opening day roster? Our roster is starting to fill-up to the point where there will be competition for roster spots that won't include rookie players. That's how I see it. 

You don't think Kulich or Rosen will stick with the varsity roster next year?

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No, it won't be. There may be rookies who will be called up due to injuries. But I doubt any rookie will make the opening day roster. If you think otherwise, who do you think will make the opening day roster? Our roster is starting to fill-up to the point where there will be competition for roster spots that won't include rookie players. That's how I see it. 

Savoie has a real chance to start the year in Buffalo, but would be mildly surprised if he plays beyond that 9th game.  (And actually could see him sent packing after 6 or so games to get a look see at the end of the year without burning a year of the ELC.)

If no goalie is brought in from the outside this summer, Levi has a small chance of starting the year in Buffalo.  Those are the 2 rookies IMHO that have the best chance of starting the year in Buffalo.

Would be surprised if Rousek doesn't get an injury callup next year.  Kulich will likely get a short look too.  (But expect they want that ELC to slide another year too.  So, if he makes the team, he's going to be taking Olofsson's spot, not bumping Greenway for Okposo's slot.)

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Savoie has a real chance to start the year in Buffalo, but would be mildly surprised if he plays beyond that 9th game.  (And actually could see him sent packing after 6 or so games to get a look see at the end of the year without burning a year of the ELC.)

If no goalie is brought in from the outside this summer, Levi has a small chance of starting the year in Buffalo.  Those are the 2 rookies IMHO that have the best chance of starting the year in Buffalo.

Would be surprised if Rousek doesn't get an injury callup next year.  Kulich will likely get a short look too.  (But expect they want that ELC to slide another year too.  So, if he makes the team, he's going to be taking Olofsson's spot, not bumping Greenway for Okposo's slot.)

As you point out if Savoie does make the roster at the beginning of the season it probably will be done for introductory purposes. You also make the point that Levi has a small chance of starting in Buffalo. In my opinion he needs a bulk amount of playing time. And after he gets that force feed exposure we will see where it leads to. 

I'm not dismissing players being called up due to injuries. But it is the often-stated view of the GM that it is better for young players to play a lot, even at a lower league, than to get intermittent play in the big league. If you look at how our GM handles prospects, he is more inclined to bring up a more prepared player a little later than a less prepared player too soon. 

If you considered what the GM did this year, he added a number of youngish, experienced players, such as Jost, Greenway and Stillman players to the roster during the season instead of bringing up prospects. Added to that group is Lyubushkin who is a veteran player who he brought in during the offseason. My point is that based on how the GM handles prospects he is going to error on the side of not rushing them. And that is the right approach to take. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Something this place is known for.

You don't think Kulich or Rosen will stick with the varsity roster next year?

No. And that will be a good thing for the organization and the players. 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you point out if Savoie does make the roster at the beginning of the season it probably will be done for introductory purposes. You also make the point that Levi has a small chance of starting in Buffalo. In my opinion he needs a bulk amount of playing time. And after he gets that force feed exposure we will see where it leads to. 

I'm not dismissing players being called up due to injuries. But it is the often-stated view of the GM that it is better for young players to play a lot, even at a lower league, than to get intermittent play in the big league. If you look at how our GM handles prospects, he is more inclined to bring up a more prepared player a little later than a less prepared player too soon. 

If you considered what the GM did this year, he added a number of youngish, experienced players, such as Jost, Greenway and Stillman players to the roster during the season instead of bringing up prospects. Added to that group is Lyubushkin who is a veteran player who he brought in during the offseason. My point is that based on how the GM handles prospects he is going to error on the side of not rushing them. And that is the right approach to take. 

 

 

No. And that will be a good thing for the organization and the players. 

We're generally in agreement on the rookies.  But the question was who might make the opening day roster.  And Savoie, due to circumstances beyond his playing abilities, will have a real chance to play a handful of games starting opening night.  But to stay, he's going to have to actually beat somebody out of a roster spot.  They have 14 NHLers at F right now.  12 of them will be back next year, and wouldn't be surprised if another Hinostroza and Sheahan type get brought in too to play in Ra-cha-cha but also to be in Buffalo should a kid or 2 falter.  Next year winning is the priority (but not at the sacrifice of LT winning).

As for Levi, the expectation is though he gets some games this year, that he starts in Ra-cha-cha.  But it isn't a given.  If he outplays UPL and whomever else gets brought in to partner with UPL then he gets the net.  It really is that simple, as next year winning becomes the focus.  Heck, winning is the focus today (recall Granato's statement earlier this past week that lineups are being crafted to give the team the best opportunity to win now.  They haven't moved on from development but at this point winning will breed development.

[Thorny]

44 minutes ago, Taro T said:

We're generally in agreement on the rookies.  But the question was who might make the opening day roster.  And Savoie, due to circumstances beyond his playing abilities, will have a real chance to play a handful of games starting opening night.  But to stay, he's going to have to actually beat somebody out of a roster spot.  They have 14 NHLers at F right now.  12 of them will be back next year, and wouldn't be surprised if another Hinostroza and Sheahan type get brought in too to play in Ra-cha-cha but also to be in Buffalo should a kid or 2 falter.  Next year winning is the priority (but not at the sacrifice of LT winning).

As for Levi, the expectation is though he gets some games this year, that he starts in Ra-cha-cha.  But it isn't a given.  If he outplays UPL and whomever else gets brought in to partner with UPL then he gets the net.  It really is that simple, as next year winning becomes the focus.  Heck, winning is the focus today (recall Granato's statement earlier this past week that lineups are being crafted to give the team the best opportunity to win now.  They haven't moved on from development but at this point winning will breed development.

That’s not winning as priority, then 

but could definitely see that being an Adams selected loop hole 

I’m sure even this year they’d say winning games was a secondary priority. The “winning is priority but not at the expense of long term winning” is more less the same thing. 

not dealing futures, not acquiring a “block” of Levi, prioritizing development..all of those can be done under the prism of prioritizing the more important FUTURE winning 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

That’s not winning as priority, then 

but could definitely see that being an Adams selected loop hole 

You seem to be splitting hairs there.

They definitely are going to switch the goal to winning in October (if it isn't already the goal for the next 17 games).

That said, they aren't trading Savoie away for a guy who's a UFA in a year to improve the chances of winning JUST next year.  

[JohnC]

59 minutes ago, Taro T said:

We're generally in agreement on the rookies.  But the question was who might make the opening day roster.  And Savoie, due to circumstances beyond his playing abilities, will have a real chance to play a handful of games starting opening night.  But to stay, he's going to have to actually beat somebody out of a roster spot.  They have 14 NHLers at F right now.  12 of them will be back next year, and wouldn't be surprised if another Hinostroza and Sheahan type get brought in too to play in Ra-cha-cha but also to be in Buffalo should a kid or 2 falter.  Next year winning is the priority (but not at the sacrifice of LT winning).

As for Levi, the expectation is though he gets some games this year, that he starts in Ra-cha-cha.  But it isn't a given.  If he outplays UPL and whomever else gets brought in to partner with UPL then he gets the net.  It really is that simple, as next year winning becomes the focus.  Heck, winning is the focus today (recall Granato's statement earlier this past week that lineups are being crafted to give the team the best opportunity to win now.  They haven't moved on from development but at this point winning will breed development.

If there isn't a serious commitment to winning next year the fandom, including me, will tune out. And rightly so. The seriousness of this organization's commitment will be demonstrated this offseason. Most of the roster is set for next year. Our top two line are assembled. The necessity is to bring in a couple to three players to round out the roster i.e. quality over quantity. It's time to become serious. 

[dudacek]

I don’t get what people mean by needing to see “serious commitment to winning”.

Because I don’t think most of them define “serious commitment” as in overpaying for free agents, or trading Matt Savoie’s for  Patrick Kane’s. 

I don’t think playing JJ Peterka this year instead signing David Perron represents not being committed to winning. It represents an attempt at smart long-term player development and cap management 

I don’t think signing Eric Comrie instead of Ville Husso or Jack Campbell represents not being committed to winning. It represents a poor reading of Eric Comrie’s ability.

I don’t think trading a 2nd-round pick for Jordan Greenway represents not being committed. It represents dealing from a position of depth (picks/young players) to address a flaw on the NHL roster. Same with trading for Stillman.

I don’t think Granato’s offence-first system represents not being committed. It represents their philosophy on how to make this team better.

You can’t fall back on the excuse of “oh, it’s a development year” if the team doesnt show any development. I can accept the results this year because there clearly was development. I’m not sure how we can show continued development next year without making the playoffs.

Not upgrading the goaltending won’t mean they aren’t “committed,” it will mean that they think UPL, Comrie and Levi will be good enough to win.

If the Sabres don’t improve next year, it won’t mean they weren’t committed to winning, it will mean they miscalculated about how to get there.

It will mean the guys they are counting on to improve them: Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Power, Samuelsson, UPL, Greenway, Stillman, and whatever other adds they might make between now and October didn’t do what was expected of them..

Not improving next year wouldn't mean they werent committed, it would mean they were wrong.

Edited March 13, 2023 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don’t get what people mean by needing to see “serious commitment to winning”.

Because I don’t think most of them define “serious commitment” as in overpaying for free agents, or trading Matt Savoie’s for  Patrick Kane’s. 

I don’t think playing JJ Peterka this year instead signing David Perron represents not being committed to winning. It represents an attempt at smart long-term player development and cap management 

I don’t think signing Eric Comrie instead of Ville Husso or Jack Campbell represents not being committed to winning. It represents a poor reading of Eric Comrie’s ability.

I don’t think trading a 2nd-round pick for Jordan Greenway represents not being committed. It represents dealing from a position of depth (picks/young players) to address a flaw on the NHL roster. Same with trading for Stillman.

I don’t think Granato’s offence-first system represents not being committed. It represents their philosophy on how to make this team better.

You can’t fall back on the excuse of “oh, it’s a development year” if the team doesnt show any development. I can accept the results this year because there clearly was development. I’m not sure how we can show continued development next year without making the playoffs.

Not upgrading the goaltending won’t mean they aren’t “committed,” it will mean that they think UPL, Comrie and Levi will be good enough to win.

If the Sabres don’t improve next year, it won’t mean they weren’t committed to winning, it will mean they miscalculated about how to get there.

It will mean the guys they are counting on to improve them: Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Power, Samuelsson, UPL, Greenway, Stillman, and whatever other adds they might make between now and October didn’t do what was expected of them..

Not improving next year wouldn't mean they werent committed, it would mean they were wrong.

Hold up. How can you say this when Husso was acquired via trade and signed by Detroit? I'm so tired of this narrative that Adams is such a moron with goalies or doesn't want to add anyone good or whatever crap gets said. He tried to add 2 other goalies, that we know of!, before getting Comrie. I don't think it represents a poor reading of *****,it represents getting the best they could after other stuff failed. Now they gotta improve past him

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Hold up. How can you say this when Husso was acquired via trade and signed by Detroit? I'm so tired of this narrative that Adams is such a moron with goalies or doesn't want to add anyone good or whatever crap gets said. He tried to add 2 other goalies, that we know of!, before getting Comrie. I don't think it represents a poor reading of *****,it represents getting the best they could after other stuff failed. Now they gotta improve past him

If you're reading this as another mindless rant of "that idiot Adams should have acquired Husso" (or Jack Campbell) you're reading it wrong.

It was simply a reference to other goalies who were available on the market last summer.

Do you think Adams expected this Eric Comrie when he signed him, or do you think he expected more from him?

Edited March 13, 2023 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Just now, dudacek said:

If you're reading this as another mindless rant of "that idiot Adams should have acquired Husso" (or Jack Campbell) you're reading it wrong.

It was simply a reference to other goalies who were available on the market last summer.

Do you think Adams expected this Eric Comrie when he signed him, or do you think he expected ore from him?

I read it exactly how you wanted me to. That Adams "it represents a poor reading of Eric Comrie’s ability." as opposed to the reality of what happened. Husso wasn't available and Campbell didn't want to come to Buffalo. Probably because this team hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years. I think they obviously hoped Comrie would be better but I don't believe for a second they were convinced he would be, if they were, why did they spend so much energy trying to get other goalies? 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I read it exactly how you wanted me to. That Adams "it represents a poor reading of Eric Comrie’s ability." as opposed to the reality of what happened. Husso wasn't available and Campbell didn't want to come to Buffalo. Probably because this team hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years. I think they obviously hoped Comrie would be better but I don't believe for a second they were convinced he would be, if they were, why did they spend so much energy trying to get other goalies? 

So this is what people mean by not taking winning seriously?

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So this is what people mean by not taking winning seriously?

No idea, I am at odds with your portrait of why the comrie move was made instead of Husso/Campbell. 

[PASabreFan]

43 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So this is what people mean by not taking winning seriously?

Which coaches will get fired for the atrocious D/PK?

Edited March 13, 2023 by PASabreFan

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

No idea, I am at odds with your portrait of why the comrie move was made instead of Husso/Campbell. 

I think we both think Comrie was signed last summer because Adams thought that was the "best"move available to him given market circumstances.

If I'm reading you correctly, where we differ is that I think Adams "targeted" him and, you think he "settled".

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Which coaches will get fired for the atrocious D/PK?

I have no idea. I'm not well-versed enough in PK strategy to offer a tactical breakdown as to why it's failing.

I also don't know who is responsible for those tactics and what else he is succeeding/failing in.

Certainly gets underplayed around here as an issue though.

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think we both think Comrie was signed last summer because Adams thought that was the "best"move available to him given market circumstances.

If I'm reading you correctly, where we differ is that I think Adams "targeted" him and, you think he "settled".

I'd be in the targeted camp; especially after Husso's rights was traded to Detroit

I doubt Adams had much if any interest in either Campbell or Kuemper. Their contractual demands were huge for their caliber of player.

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think we both think Comrie was signed last summer because Adams thought that was the "best"move available to him given market circumstances.

If I'm reading you correctly, where we differ is that I think Adams "targeted" him and, you think he "settled".

He definitely wasn't plan A.  But after Murray nixed the trade and Gibson did likewise (if he even got to the point of having worked out a deal with Anaheim), Comrie sure seems to have been next on their list.

The question is, would he still have been on the list had the Murray trade happened?  Am hoping he would've been and they've brought both in house (which would've left Anderson on the outside), but am guessing that they would've just brought Murray in and either Anderson or somebody left on the market 4 or so days into FA.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

He definitely wasn't plan A.  But after Murray nixed the trade and Gibson did likewise (if he even got to the point of having worked out a deal with Anaheim), Comrie sure seems to have been next on their list.

The question is, would he still have been on the list had the Murray trade happened?  Am hoping he would've been and they've brought both in house (which would've left Anderson on the outside), but am guessing that they would've just brought Murray in and either Anderson or somebody left on the market 4 or so days into FA.

My point was simply that Adams thought Comrie could supply capable goaltending this year.

To me the fact that he hasn't even been NHL calibre means Adams poorly read his ability. @LGR4GMdisagrees.

[Sidc3000]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:09 AM, LGR4GM said:

 

Sorry, after I said the refs won the game my friend took my phone to read the gdt. I didn't realize he posted until this morning. I apologize. 

So is that the reason why I was given a warning and given a 24 hour suspension for posting by spndnchz?

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Sidc3000

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Sidc3000 said:

So is that the reason why I was given a warning and given a 24 hour suspension for posting by spndnchz?

Idk. I hope not. 

[Sidc3000]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Idk. I hope not. 

Well I can’t seem to find any other reason. The link the email provided too me to my post about Dahlin.  I’ve send emails and just sent a message to the mod who gave me the warning for “abusive behavior” without any explanation. I hold no grudge about any of it, i just want an explanation 

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

Well I can’t seem to find any other reason. The link the email provided too me to my post about Dahlin.  I’ve send emails and just sent a message to the mod who gave me the warning for “abusive behavior” without any explanation. I hold no grudge about any of it, i just want an explanation 

Maybe it was meant for me and by accident they tagged you. Again, I apologize for that comment. It wasn't mine but it still came from my account so I'm responsible. 

[Flashsabre]

Granato and Adams are right that most of the improvement the next 24 months will be internal. Leaps by guys like Quinn, Power, Krebs, JJ will improve the team.

But to really get serious they need a stabilizer in net and a top 4 dman that is a difference maker.

What we have seen is that Adams gets that too. He has tried to make moves to shore up the net. He tried to get Chychrun to upgrade the top 4. He needs to find a way to deliver this offseason.

This team isn’t far off from being a contender for years to come. Find those 2 key pieces to compliment all the youth coming on and you are off to the races.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Flashsabre