Hit definition

[PASabreFan]

Is there a working definition of "hit" that teams use? NYI are notorious for seemingly overcounting, but maybe they have a different standard.

In reality there are hundreds of points of physical contact during a game. OTOH you don't want to count only the open ice boomers.

[Doohickie]

As I recall it's something like "physical contact resulting in a change of puck possession."  When I heard the bit about possession I was surprised. 

[Doohickie]

Apparently there is no official NHL definition of the term though.

[Zamboni]

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/01/30/breaking-down-the-inconsistencies-in-counting-hits-between-different-nhl-arenas/

 

not all hits are created equal

[SwampD]

17 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/01/30/breaking-down-the-inconsistencies-in-counting-hits-between-different-nhl-arenas/

 

not all hits are created equal

I think you mean not all hit counters are created equal.

[PASabreFan]

34 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

As I recall it's something like "physical contact resulting in a change of puck possession."  When I heard the bit about possession I was surprised. 

Not sure about that. So Campbell wasn't credited with a hit that time.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Is there a working definition of "hit" that teams use? NYI are notorious for seemingly overcounting, but maybe they have a different standard.

In reality there are hundreds of points of physical contact during a game. OTOH you don't want to count only the open ice boomers.

No 

[pi2000]

Has nothing to do with change of possession.

Body checking a player with intent... the puck could be gone and you finish the check.. that's a hit.  

That said, it has to meet some subjective level of intensity.  

[PASabreFan]

I forget the retired ref... Maybe Fraser... Who somewhat bemoaned the progression of hitting in the NHL from a player he cited, Craig Ramsay, with a modest jar along the boards designed to free the puck, to Scott Stevens the headhunter.

[Marvin]

This is true of shots on goal as well.  Until the league started monitoring games after 2005, what constituted a shot on goal varied.  For instance, Buffalo was notoriously parsimonious about crediting a shot on goal -- we required that a goalie intentionally make a save for a shot clearly intended to hit the net that would have scored had the save not been made.  Here are circumstances where Buffalo scorekeepers would not count a shot on goal unless a goal resulted whereas at least some, if not most other teams' scorekeepers would count it.

1. Puck bounces off the boards on a zone clear and it winds up on net.

2. A hard pass directed off the net deflects off of someone and the goalie has to make a save.

3. The goalie catches or deflects a puck that looked like it would hit the post or maybe go over the net.

That means that for any other team, Dominik Hasek's save percentage would have been higher than it already was.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Marvin said:

This is true of shots on goal as well.  Until the league started monitoring games after 2005, what constituted a shot on goal varied.  For instance, Buffalo was notoriously parsimonious about crediting a shot on goal -- we required that a goalie intentionally make a save for a shot clearly intended to hit the net that would have scored had the save not been made.  Here are circumstances where Buffalo scorekeepers would not count a shot on goal unless a goal resulted whereas at least some, if not most other teams' scorekeepers would count it.

1. Puck bounces off the boards on a zone clear and it winds up on net.

2. A hard pass directed off the net deflects off of someone and the goalie has to make a save.

3. The goalie catches or deflects a puck that looked like it would hit the post or maybe go over the net.

That means that for any other team, Dominik Hasek's save percentage would have been higher than it already was.

I always thought the NHL required the intent to score when determining if its a shot on goal or not so I don’t see how a clearing attempt would count. 

[Marvin]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

I always thought the NHL required the intent to score when determining if its a shot on goal or not so I don’t see how a clearing attempt would count. 

I had thought so too, but I saw shots being credited in situations like the above in numerous NHL rinks over the years.

[LTS]

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I forget the retired ref... Maybe Fraser... Who somewhat bemoaned the progression of hitting in the NHL from a player he cited, Craig Ramsay, with a modest jar along the boards designed to free the puck, to Scott Stevens the headhunter.

Undoubtedly tied to the evolution from wearing pads to wearing armor on the ice.

[dudacek]

When Tage beat Chicago with the busted-stick bounce off the boards was he credited with a missed shot, a shot on goal, or both?

 

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

I always thought the NHL required the intent to score when determining if its a shot on goal or not so I don’t see how a clearing attempt would count. 

 

Under that criteria, if a clearing attempt went in the net before a real shot was taken, shouldn't scoreboard say 1 goal, zero shots?

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

When Tage beat Chicago with the busted-stick bounce off the boards was he credited with a missed shot, a shot on goal, or both?

Under that criteria, if a clearing attempt went in the net before a real shot was taken, shouldn't scoreboard say 1 goal, zero shots?

I’ve always wondered about that myself, but the NHL has always cited intent to score as part of the criteria for defining a shot on goal for as long as I can remember. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

I’ve always wondered about that myself, but the NHL has always cited intent to score as part of the criteria for defining a shot on goal for as long as I can remember. 

Maybe you're right but I don't ever remember this as the criteria. Shot on goal has always been any situation where the puck would have crossed the goal line (and scored a goal) had a goalie (or player in the crease area) not stopped it. 

[K-9]

https://www.nhl.com/info/go-figure

Quote

 

Shot on Goal

If a player shoots the puck with the intention of scoring and if that shot would have gone in the net had the goaltender not stopped it, the shot is recorded as a "shot on goal."

 

I think there’s lots of gray area though. Accidental empty net goals for example, where the shooter has no intent but to clear the puck and it goes in anyway is a shot because if a goalie was there he could have stopped it. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by K-9

[North Buffalo]

And as one already said weak hits like TT not sure the purpose v hard hits like Risto... still not sure the purpose... or moderate strong hits like OKie or Z train to separate puck or make player pass before he wanted... Krebs is learning that... wish Casey and Ollie would too... too often they do fly byes... 

[Quint]

On 1/11/2023 at 5:56 PM, Marvin said:

This is true of shots on goal as well.  Until the league started monitoring games after 2005, what constituted a shot on goal varied.  For instance, Buffalo was notoriously parsimonious about crediting a shot on goal -- we required that a goalie intentionally make a save for a shot clearly intended to hit the net that would have scored had the save not been made.  Here are circumstances where Buffalo scorekeepers would not count a shot on goal unless a goal resulted whereas at least some, if not most other teams' scorekeepers would count it.

1. Puck bounces off the boards on a zone clear and it winds up on net.

2. A hard pass directed off the net deflects off of someone and the goalie has to make a save.

3. The goalie catches or deflects a puck that looked like it would hit the post or maybe go over the net.

That means that for any other team, Dominik Hasek's save percentage would have been higher than it already was.

Parsimonious. I like that word. Thanks for raising the level of discourse.

[sweetlou]

So 7 minutes into Florida at Vegas game, Florida is leading 1-0 with zero shots on goal!!

[SwampD]

If you go to the NHL.Com P-B-P, and look at the recorded hits, then go watch them in the game, what they call a hit can be pretty comical.