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Carrying 3 goalies - Should they keep 3, send UPL down or move someone else?


GASabresIUFAN
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1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

The reason to keep Hinostroza is the same reason he was re-signed. He's the veteran off the bench with speed (and a sneakily decent shot) that can play on any wing in the lineup without disrupting the other lines in the event of a 2-3 game injury. The only guys he can't fully replace (in the very short term) are Tuch or Girgs because although he has the speed, he doesn't have their size to move people off pucks or outmuscle folks on the boards. Asplund doesn't provide that same flexibility and everyone in Rochester is an unknown at this point except Murray who doesn't have the wheels.

Zero goals 

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4 hours ago, Refuting said:

Zero goals 

I was referring more to last season's 13 goals with a few very good shots that beat unscreened goalies cleanly, which I've not really seen from Asplund. Hino only has 17 shots on goal this season, so the sample size isn't there. 

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7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If Vinnie goes down, I honestly doubt he'll ever return.  At this point in the season they are going to want to get a look at Weissbach, Biro and Rousek if injuries strike.  They also like Murray's game.  

He very well might not, & said he likely wouldn't be back upthread.  But if the hole they want/need to fill is say Girgensons, then Asplund steps into the lineup.  

Doubt they'd bring Rousek up to sit in the pressbox.  Maybe they would, but expect they'd rather have Vinny sitting while Rousek continues to get solid minutes on the A.  

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2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

I was referring more to last season's 13 goals with a few very good shots that beat unscreened goalies cleanly, which I've not really seen from Asplund. Hino only has 17 shots on goal this season, so the sample size isn't there. 

He's another stinker. Probably wouldn't be top 5 in scoring on an AHL team 

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2 hours ago, Taro T said:

He very well might not, & said he likely wouldn't be back upthread.  But if the hole they want/need to fill is say Girgensons, then Asplund steps into the lineup.  

Doubt they'd bring Rousek up to sit in the pressbox.  Maybe they would, but expect they'd rather have Vinny sitting while Rousek continues to get solid minutes on the A.  

If they call up anyone from the A they’ll most likely be in the lineup, unless it’s an injury insurance issue for a road trip.  If that’s the case you recall someone like Bjork.  

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10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If they call up anyone from the A they’ll most likely be in the lineup, unless it’s an injury insurance issue for a road trip.  If that’s the case you recall someone like Bjork.  

To the bolded, exactly.  And the 13th F is injury insurance at home too.

If e.g. Girgensons goes down, Asplund is going in.  The player coming up is coming up to sit in the pressbox.  There isn't any AHLer filling that role better than Rasmus.

Why would Bjork suddenly be a better option to sit in the pressbox than Hinostroza?  If somebody gets hurt in warm-ups, does ANYBODY (other than Bjork's mom) want to see him stepping in over Vinny? 

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9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, exactly.  And the 13th F is injury insurance at home too.

If e.g. Girgensons goes down, Asplund is going in.  The player coming up is coming up to sit in the pressbox.  There isn't any AHLer filling that role better than Rasmus.

Why would Bjork suddenly be a better option to sit in the pressbox than Hinostroza?  If somebody gets hurt in warm-ups, does ANYBODY (other than Bjork's mom) want to see him stepping in over Vinny? 

If they’re at home and 2 forwards go down, Asplund goes in first and they bring in Murray, Rousek or Weissbach to play.  If they’re on the road and everyone is healthy, Asplund sits and no one is recalled.  The only way someone is recalled for insurance is if Asplund is already in the lineup.  At that point, the hope is no one else gets hurt so it doesn’t matter who sits.  

If Vinnie goes down, truthfully you want him to add to the veteran leadership group down there to help develop the younger kids.  I’d rather him play there then sit in the pressbox on a 3 game road trip.  Someone like Bjork is proving to be as marginal in the A as he was in the NHL. He can sit.

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53 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If they’re at home and 2 forwards go down, Asplund goes in first and they bring in Murray, Rousek or Weissbach to play.  If they’re on the road and everyone is healthy, Asplund sits and no one is recalled.  The only way someone is recalled for insurance is if Asplund is already in the lineup.  At that point, the hope is no one else gets hurt so it doesn’t matter who sits.  

If Vinnie goes down, truthfully you want him to add to the veteran leadership group down there to help develop the younger kids.  I’d rather him play there then sit in the pressbox on a 3 game road trip.  Someone like Bjork is proving to be as marginal in the A as he was in the NHL. He can sit.

Where are you getting to the point of 2 F's get injured?

If Girgensons gets hurt, then Asplund plays & Hinostroza returns to his current role.

If a player that has a more offensive role gets hurt & they don't see Asplund as filling his role nor as filling in for an active player that bumps up higher, then they're calling up Rousek or somebody else to step in.  

But should somebody else get hurt after the hypothetical Girgensons injury, they aren't going to send Vinny down to make other moves.  He's the 14 when all are healthy, & if he bumps to 13 he isn't bumping back to 14 except due to players getting healthy.  (And he does bump to 14 when players are healthy.)

And don't see any scenario where we see Bjork back on the Sabres roster, pressbox or not, during the RS.  The ONLY way he's back is if the Sabres are in the layoffs & Ra-cha-cha is done.

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I think the thing you have to consider is the future over the present, so any player not in the plans for next year can be sent down. This could even include Anderson.

The team finally has some continuity and you likely don't want to mess with that. D pairings and lines have been formed and juggling everything at this point to prevent a waiver would seem like a step backwards. Vinnie is your replacement for the wing on one of the top 2 lines because he's the more offensive player and Asplund is the sub on the bottom 2 because he's better defensively. I'd still send Vinnie down because I really don't see him being picked up by anybody for his skill level at his price. You can send both or either it really doesn't matter. Neither is on this team's starting line up in 2 years (maybe even next year). 

When Jokiharju comes back I personally would take Bryson out as I prefer the current more offensive guy paired with the more defensive guy type thing but they might move Clague instead. Or Fitz. Slightly risky but not a huge gamble. or maybe even keep the extra D and send Asplund and Vinnie down. I really don't think it matters but just don't want to run into D depth problems again. Forwards are more easily subbed imo. 

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One of the reasons I started this thread is for the issue we are now confronting with Joki nearly back and Comrie allegedly recalled from the A.  With only 3 extra slots and everyone healthy, 2 of Clague, Bryson, Fitz, Asplund, Vinnie, and UPL need to go to make room for Comrie and Jokiharju.  If we argue that Clague and UPL have earned their NHL roster spots, then 2 of Bryson, Fitz, Vinnie and Asplund get waived.  

Bryson isn’t going anywhere, except maybe to the bench.  Fitz is our only RHD depth, but is now our 8th best D.  Asplund is a good defensive forward, can play multiple positions and is under team control.  However Jost may have stolen his job medium term. Vinnie is our offensive forward depth, but guys like Rousek or Weissbach could fill that role if needed. I don’t envy KA this decision.  

If it were up to me, I keep Fitz, send down UPL and waive Asplund.  This may not be popular, but UPL can always be recalled as he is waiver exempt.  

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FWIW, Vinnie has made, or will make by the end of the season, $7,213,809 as a pro hockey player. That's not bad, all things considered. If he were waived, he's going to be okay.

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On 1/6/2023 at 2:53 PM, DarthEbriate said:

And now... Counterpoint... of madness!

If you want to keep 3 goalies for a bit...

JJP and Quinn have combined for 1 goal in the last 11 games (22 combined gp) turning the team into a 1-line team. If the top line is off or the opponent has line to match them (see Ottawa), the team loses. The Kid Line is currently taking a nap, positive Corsi or not. Give Asplund and Hinostroza each a game before Comrie returns as a showcase. If you can get someone to give up a 4th for Asplund or maybe a 5th for Hino go for it. But if a slight reshuffle gives the bottom 9 a spark (particularly VO on the powerplay), JJP and Quinn are both waivers exempt and can immediately jump right back up to Buffalo if an injury hits, if someone is moved, or if UPL cools down.

Note 1: Having nearly every forward healthy all season is a good thing.

Note 2: Waive Bryson when Joker returns. Jokiharju does everything Bryson does, but better. Clague has supplanted Bryson in the lineup and Bryson's 1.8M salary is much more likely to clear waivers. And Fitz is a better replacement for the Boushh/Muel role than Bryson, in the event either of them blocks a shot and misses a spell.

I doubt it happens, but sending one of Quinn or JJP down does make some sense. I doubt they want to break that line up, but those two have been getting low ice-time the last few games.

On 1/6/2023 at 2:57 PM, Taro T said:

Depends on whether they need to plug an offensive or defensive F into the lineup.  Defensive, Asplund plays & Vinny is 13th.  Offensive, Rousek gets a shot & Asplund stays 13.

Either way, Vinny doesn't play but he might be back up.

They aren't benching the kids, and they aren't taking a 4 for Asplund.  A 5 for Hinostroza, maybe.  (Probably?)

I don't think anyone is going to trade for Hinostroza straight up since they'll be waiting to see if he shows up on waivers. The Sabres play here could be to trade and retain 50% of his salary to increase the possible landing spots. I think he'd be below the vet minimum at 50%.

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No great options here, but perhaps we are finally having to make a decision that fits in the “good problem to have” category.
 

Fitz probably clears I think, so that might be the simplest way to address one spot. I like having 8 D though. While an upgrade is always a nice thought, I think Bryson, Boosh, Clague, Fitz and Pilut give us better depth than is generally thought. Dahlin and Power are studs and the big minutes they play speaks as much to their prowess as to any lack of depth, in my view. 
 

I would send UPL down and waive Vinnie. If Vinnie doesn’t want to go to Rochester maybe a Moulson-like deal can be made where he goes home and plays for the Chicago Wolves. As others have said, we have multiple forwards in Rochester who can come up and fill that role if needed. 
 

Comrie would then get 2 of the next 3 home games. If the team keeps rolling then there is nothing to worry about. If Comrie falters you recall UPL and need to make a decision. 

It was always more than likely that due to an injury UPL would get an extended stretch in the NHL this season.  It’s good that he has played well.  I think, at this point, it is fine to just stick with the plan.

 

 

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On 1/7/2023 at 6:01 PM, PerreaultForever said:

I think the thing you have to consider is the future over the present, so any player not in the plans for next year can be sent down. This could even include Anderson.

The team finally has some continuity and you likely don't want to mess with that. D pairings and lines have been formed and juggling everything at this point to prevent a waiver would seem like a step backwards. Vinnie is your replacement for the wing on one of the top 2 lines because he's the more offensive player and Asplund is the sub on the bottom 2 because he's better defensively. I'd still send Vinnie down because I really don't see him being picked up by anybody for his skill level at his price. You can send both or either it really doesn't matter. Neither is on this team's starting line up in 2 years (maybe even next year). 

When Jokiharju comes back I personally would take Bryson out as I prefer the current more offensive guy paired with the more defensive guy type thing but they might move Clague instead. Or Fitz. Slightly risky but not a huge gamble. or maybe even keep the extra D and send Asplund and Vinnie down. I really don't think it matters but just don't want to run into D depth problems again. Forwards are more easily subbed imo. 

To the bolded, absolutely.  Hinostroza isn't a part of the future & is the easy choice.

Which D to send down is tougher.  They seem to like Bryson, so doubt it is him getting sent down.  Expect it'd be Fitzgerald going down, but it easily could be Clague.

Really doubt either gets claimed & if 1 does, it likely isn't that huge a deal.

 

Would keep all 3 goalies, not just for them all earning a spot on the roster, but also because except for the AS break they've got 4 games / week for the foreseeable future.  Sliding Anderson the odd game here or there could be the key to keeping all 3 healthy & not overworked.

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  • GASabresIUFAN changed the title to Carrying 3 goalies - Should they keep 3, send UPL down or move someone else?
3 hours ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, absolutely.  Hinostroza isn't a part of the future & is the easy choice.

Which D to send down is tougher.  They seem to like Bryson, so doubt it is him getting sent down.  Expect it'd be Fitzgerald going down, but it easily could be Clague.

Really doubt either gets claimed & if 1 does, it likely isn't that huge a deal.

 

Would keep all 3 goalies, not just for them all earning a spot on the roster, but also because except for the AS break they've got 4 games / week for the foreseeable future.  Sliding Anderson the odd game here or there could be the key to keeping all 3 healthy & not overworked.

I think you're right, it's likely Clague or Fitz as they are toss a coin kind of similar. Coach seems to like Clague at the moment so it's probably Fitz. 

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On 1/6/2023 at 10:33 AM, dudacek said:

Whatever happens, it's not going to affect a player who's going to be here next year, or our chances in the playoff race.

Send Quinn and JJ down, pair them with Rochester's 1C and at the trade deadline (or sooner if injuries dictate) bring them back up.  Let them get their mojo back.  I would send them down as a pair and if they need an extra forward, bring Biro, Weissback or Rousek up for a cup of coffee in the NHL.

Possibly move Cozens to the line with Ollie and Mitts and let Jost center the line with our spare wingers/rookies/whatev for less than 10 minutes/night in protected ice time.

It will give a young guy or two a taste of the NHL and give JJ and Quinn enough ice time in game situations to get back in the swing, and the novelty of new faces may bring some energy to the team as a whole.

Edited by Doohickie
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Send Quinn and JJ down, pair them with Rochester's 1C and at the trade deadline (or sooner if injuries dictate) bring them back up.  Let them get their mojo back. 

This is not as outlandish as it seems at first blush.  I doubt KA goes this route, but it is something to chew on.  We wanted Mitts sent down and while it took a while it helped him get his confidence back.  Same for Thompson.  

My guess is DG wants them in Buffalo to work through the rookie wali, but never say never, especially if Mitts and VO start scoring regularly.  

We have to revisit this idea after the next 3 home games and Comrie comes off IR.

Would they send Joki down for a conditioning stint while they hit the road to further delay some decisions?

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5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is not as outlandish as it seems at first blush.  I doubt KA goes this route, but it is something to chew on.  We wanted Mitts sent down and while it took a while it helped him get his confidence back.  Same for Thompson.  

My guess is DG wants them in Buffalo to work through the rookie wali, but never say never, especially if Mitts and VO start scoring regularly.  

We have to revisit this idea after the next 3 home games and Comrie comes off IR.

Would they send Joki down for a conditioning stint while they hit the road to further delay some decisions?

I know I suggested JJP or Quinn could still go down for a bit, but I can't see it being both at once. I like the idea of Joker getting a conditioning stint, especially as HCDG it's somewhat about pain tolerance. As soon as he's medically cleared, you'd want Joker to be able to test it out for a bit without facing the NHL's best with  several 3 games in 4 nights this month.

Never tell me the odds, but I'd go with UPL and Bryson. GM Sheevyn spoke with UPL after the Comrie signing and UPL knows the deal this year: it's about playing as much as he can and a 3-goalie setup isn't going to give him the ice time he needs. He's not as good as Anderson and Comrie's the veteran. Plus, we can see UPL still has several things to work on. He's on the right track and had a great hot streak. The thing to watch would be how the team plays in front of Comrie when they aren't missing 2-4 defensemen (and Boushh on one leg). Clague has outperformed Bryson as the #6/7 LHD.

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