Jeff Skinner - Appreciation

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

He scored 40 the season before Ralph.  He has 300+ goals in his career.  Best in his draft class that includes Seguin and Hall.  

The bad period you reference was all under Ralph’s 97 game regime.  I looked at his career stats.  He is a consistent scorer  with the only exception being The Ralph era.  
 

I will give a ten year vet with 300+ goals the benefit of a doubt over Ralph, a guy who had no business getting a second NHL stint.  Skinner is not a perfect player, he needs to be on a line with someone to drive the play, but he is definitely a goal scorer.  

OK. Ralph prevented Jeff from scoring goals.

54 points then 31 in more games the next season in Carolina.

He's streaky. When he's hot it's easy to say I told you so.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Jeff's trademark skating style. I got a thesaurus as an early xmas gift.

Rail against RaKru if you want. The story is not as simple as mean old Ralph kept Jeffrey from producing. Chicken vs. egg.

He had 37 points in 112 games over two seasons. Inconsistency has been a trademark of his career.

It's not all on Ralph.

If it's not on Ralph then explain the difference in his performance while Krueger was the coach compared to when Granato was the coach. As far as his inconsistency in play there is nothing unusual about goal scorers having peaks and valleys scoring goals. What matters is that in the end his numbers add up to having an impactful season. 

There is another aspect to Skinner's game that doesn't get much attention. Under Granato, Skinner's passing and his responsible two-way play has noticeably improved. He's now a much more well-rounded player. As an integral member of one of the top first lines in the league he is earning his sizeable contract. Coaching matters!

Edited December 22, 2022 by JohnC

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

OK. Ralph prevented Jeff from scoring goals.

54 points then 31 in more games the next season in Carolina.

He's streaky. When he's hot it's easy to say I told you so.

You point out his worst year in Carolina when the entire team was down and losing, and he was still 2nd on his team in goals that year.  You just can't argue about his offensive production - he averages 29 goals for every 82 games played, not bad.  Take out the RK games and he is a 30+ goal scorer every season.

Yes, he is streaky, like a lot of goal scorers.   If he gets cold, you won't fix him by putting him on the 4th line and playing him 8 minutes a game either like idiot Ralph did.   He is not what I call a complete 200-foot player, but he has greatly improved his total game under Granato by quite a bit.   

Absolutely, RK prevented Jeff from scoring.  I can say that with confidence.   The stats say it too.  It is a fact you won't score if you don't play.  Jeff couldn't or wouldn't, play the RK system.  You know the system that had Dahlin holding back and allowing the opponent to get back and wait for us.  RK just about ruined several talented players on this team for the sake of his "trying not to lose" soccer system.  

I do not long for RK, his long meandering talks about nothing, and his soccer system set to ice.  I won't defend anything about him as an NHL hockey coach either.  

Edited December 22, 2022 by Pimlach

[Sabres Fan in NS]

20 hours ago, steveoath said:

Not bad for the "worst contract in hockey" who was Ralph'd for a season and a half.

 

He is proving to be a real asset to this team. 

 

Plus.... that smile...😍

I have always loved Jeff.

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

Jeff Skinner has the NHL’s 36th-highest cap hit this year.

He is the league’s 25th-highest scorer.

Only 8 of the 35 players making more than him are out scoring him.

Only 2 of them have a better +/-.

Dare I say that his contract is well worth it.  Perhaps not a bargain, but pretty close.

[Radar]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Jeff's trademark skating style. I got a thesaurus as an early xmas gift.

Rail against RaKru if you want. The story is not as simple as mean old Ralph kept Jeffrey from producing. Chicken vs. egg.

He had 37 points in 112 games over two seasons. Inconsistency has been a trademark of his career.

It's not all on Ralph.

Pray tell what about RK's  coaching would you commend? He's probably a nice person? Asking for a friend.

[Mb278]

I dont have a ton to add beyond what everyone else mentioned, but skinner is definitely a positive asset to this team. I remember thinking at the time of Ralphie boy coaching that I gave skinner a lot of credit for keeping his mouth. Compare his public persona vs. someone else's from that team🍎 . 

Its been a messy 11 years, but it sure is nice to be genuinely excited for this team again. 

[SwampD]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Jeff's trademark skating style. I got a thesaurus as an early xmas gift.

Rail against RaKru if you want. The story is not as simple as mean old Ralph kept Jeffrey from producing. Chicken vs. egg.

He had 37 points in 112 games over two seasons. Inconsistency has been a trademark of his career.

It's not all on Ralph.

Actually, Ralph kept everyone from producing.

[matter2003]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

You point out his worst year in Carolina when the entire team was down and losing, and he was still 2nd on his team in goals that year.  You just can't argue about his offensive production - he averages 29 goals for every 82 games played, not bad.  Take out the RK games and he is a 30+ goal scorer every season.

Yes, he is streaky, like a lot of goal scorers.   If he gets cold, you won't fix him by putting him on the 4th line and playing him 8 minutes a game either like idiot Ralph did.   He is not what I call a complete 200-foot player, but he has greatly improved his total game under Granato by quite a bit.   

Absolutely, RK prevented Jeff from scoring.  I can say that with confidence.   The stats say it too.  It is a fact you won't score if you don't play.  Jeff couldn't or wouldn't, play the RK system.  You know the system that had Dahlin holding back and allowing the opponent to get back and wait for us.  RK just about ruined several talented players on this team for the sake of his "trying not to lose" soccer system.  

I do not long for RK, his long meandering talks about nothing, and his soccer system set to ice.  I won't defend anything about him as an NHL hockey coach either.  

RK either scratched Skinner or played him on the 4th line with like 10 mins a game much of the season...WTF kind of coaching is that?

Skinner scored 40 goals the year before, then combined for 16 goals in the 97 games RK was there, then went back to scoring 30+ goals the year after and is on pace for 41 again this year. If RK wasn't responsible it might be the biggest coincidence in the history of coincidences.

Edited December 22, 2022 by matter2003

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I have always loved Jeff.

Dare I say that his contract is well worth it.  Perhaps not a bargain, but pretty close.

You are not alone. Everyone has always loved Jeff.

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, Radar said:

Pray tell what about RK's  coaching would you commend? He's probably a nice person? Asking for a friend.

Who said I commend him for anything? It's not all coaching is my point.

But I will commend Bill Peters. In his first three seasons as Canes coach, he singlehandedly got Jeff's production to double. Of course in his fourth season it dropped again (including a -27 after a -3 the year before). Probably why he got fired. And Jeff stayed to lead the franchise to elite status in the league.

Edited December 22, 2022 by PASabreFan

[matter2003]

19 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Actually, Ralph kept everyone from producing.

His system might have been the dumbest thing of all time...he had offensively talented players he refused to allow to play offense.

[NAF]

One thing I will also add about Skinner is that I think he'll still be a pretty decent player when he gets older and into the latter years of the contract. His game isn't really about speed so he won't really be "losing a step" when he gets older as he never really had that step to begin with. The differentiating factor in his skating is his edgework and smoothness, both of which are more about technique rather than leg speed.

[SwampD]

18 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

His system might have been the dumbest thing of all time...he had offensively talented players he refused to allow to play offense.

I have never seen so many players skate towards the blue line with a full head of steam, and then stop, and pass it backwards. So dumb.

[thewookie1]

50 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

His system might have been the dumbest thing of all time...he had offensively talented players he refused to allow to play offense.

As I have mentioned in the past; RK’s system was effectively that only Eichel or Hall were allowed to skate into the offensive zone with puck control barring absurd circumstances. Everyone else was meant to exist and follow those two.

[PASabreFan]

lol

It'll be fun to revisit this thread if Jeff is on a 1-3-4 tear over 22 games late next season as the Sabres make a push for the playoffs.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by PASabreFan
Cte

[Doohickie]

12 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Some revisionism here re: mean old Ralph. Jeff mohawked his way into the doghouse. Not worth rehashing. He's been awesome of late and that's all that matters.

Skinner is Skinner and Ralph had no idea how to make that work in his awful terrible system.  Yes.  He was mean.  And old.

And if you're defending Ralph, why, you must be mean and old yourself!

[Doohickie]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I would love to know what this means?  I’ve have never seen the word Mohawk used in this manner.  

It's a skating maneuver that Jeff is wont to use, where his toes point outwards, the lead foot pointing in the direction of travel, the trailing foot pointing in the opposite direction.  You players like Sid the Kid use it but for some reason when Jeff uses it, it looks extreme.

Here's an example of Skinner using it to get to the front of the net:  https://www.nhl.com/video/skinner-nets-goal-for-lead/t-335696276/c-14154339

Edited December 22, 2022 by Doohickie

[Doohickie]

8 hours ago, MattPie said:

In a good way, he makes some unconventional but really fluid moves that most players can't do.

EXACTLY.  But it gave Ralph brain cramps.

[PickaPecaPickles]

From Fairburn's article today  https://theathletic.com/4029058/2022/12/22/buffalo-sabres-playoffs/ :

Quote

 

It’s remarkable to see the way Jeff Skinner is producing at 30 years old. He’s on pace to set career highs in points and goals. He’s blended in perfectly with Tage Thompson and Alex Tuch on the top line and is a dangerous player to have on the power play.

“I think he’s having a lot of fun,” Okposo said. “You just see the way his personality is coming out and how much fun he has on a day-to-day basis. It’s honestly a joy to see, a joy to witness. He’s really stepped up in a leadership role for us. He says the right things. He plays the game in a different way than anybody else. He sees the game in a different way. He’s using his voice to impact some of our younger guys. He has that confidence right now and it’s just been so fun to see how much enjoyment he’s getting out of the game right now.

 

 

[LTS]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:15 PM, Believer said:

Skinner scored just 16 goals over 84 games under Krueger…

He’s scored 16 goals in 29 games so far this season

How many goals do you think Krueger cost Skinner in his career stats??… 20??… 30??… 

Skinner never really complained in the press… He stuck it out… No chip on his shoulder… Guy still plays the game with a huge smile… Leadership by example… A role model for the kids

Leadership for the team.. if you've heard his mouth during a game I don't know that he's a role model for the kids.. 🙂

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

It's a skating maneuver that Jeff is wont to use, where his toes point outwards, the lead foot pointing in the direction of travel, the trailing foot pointing in the opposite direction.  You players like Sid the Kid use it but for some reason when Jeff uses it, it looks extreme.

Here's an example of Skinner using it to get to the front of the net:  https://www.nhl.com/video/skinner-nets-goal-for-lead/t-335696276/c-14154339

Lots of players do it.. however Skinner pretty much does it every shift and that's why its extreme.  Not as extreme as that juniors kid or whatever league he was in that did it all the way up the ice to score a goal.. that was uber-extreme.

[Zamboni]

Jeff uses that maneuver more often because he has a figure skating background. He has mentioned this as a reason why he skates and moves and positions his feet the way he does. 

[PerreaultForever]

I still don't like him and probably never will, but we're stuck with him. 

Ralph insisted Skinner do what Ralph wanted and play like Ralph wanted. Skinner refused and ended up sitting. 

Granato lets Skinner play the way Skinner wants to, so Skinner is happy and Skinner scores now and again. Still streaky, still undisciplined, still over paid. 

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I still don't like him and probably never will, but we're stuck with him. 

Ralph insisted Skinner do what Ralph wanted and play like Ralph wanted. Skinner refused and ended up sitting. 

Granato lets Skinner play the way Skinner wants to, so Skinner is happy and Skinner scores now and again. Still streaky, still undisciplined, still over paid. 

If his name was Marchand you'd like him. In reality Skinner is a discount version.

Skinner is a 5 time 30+ goal scorer. Soon to be a 9 time 20+ goal scorer. He's played 13 seasons... so how streaky is he really? 

[That Aud Smell]

17 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, he is streaky, like a lot of goal scorers.   If he gets cold, you won't fix him by putting him on the 4th line and playing him 8 minutes a game either like idiot Ralph did.  

Hear, hear.

13 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

lol

It'll be fun to revisit this thread if Jeff is on a 1-3-4 tear over 22 games late next season as the Sabres make a push for the playoffs.

Puck luck is bound to come looking for him. But I’d bet dollars to donuts that his underlying metrics would generally show him to be unlucky. 

I can’t help but like (love?) his game. He is among the team’s most consistent players when it comes to *playing his game*. And I love how that game is characterized by tenacity and joy. And edge work.

RaKru probably wins the award for the franchise’s worst coach of all time. That he damn near ruined Dahlin is really all the proof we need. His effect on Skinner is perhaps the next case in point.

[PASabreFan]

Correlation. Causation. Schlemiel schlemozzle.

Rasmus was dumb. He got smarter. A natural course? How much blame and credit do the coaches deserve?