This team lacks desperation.

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This seems accurate. Process vs results, and when the priority should shift from the former to the latter, is indeed the tricky part

All I know is, this team stopped prioritizing winning, what 11-12 yrs ago, and I stopped prioritizing watching the team.  And here I am 11-12 yrs later and they still aren’t giving me a reason to prioritize watching the team.

JFC.  I’m not sure I’ll ever be fanatical again.  It’s not apathy, but it ain’t excitement either.  I want to care enough to get excited, but I can’t make it happen anymore.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

All I know is, this team stopped prioritizing winning, what 11-12 yrs ago, and I stopped prioritizing watching the team.  And here I am 11-12 yrs later and they still aren’t giving me a reason to prioritize watching the team.

JFC.  I’m not sure I’ll ever be fanatical again.  It’s not apathy, but it ain’t excitement either.  I want to care enough to get excited, but I can’t make it happen anymore.

This is all normal. Don’t worry about it. You have to allow yourself some grace, as a fan.

Contrary to any “I, for one, NEVER doubted this team in 10 years and anyone without unwavering support just doesn’t get it” gatekeeping lingo you might hear: the Sabres are an entertainment product that had asked for more from its paying customers than any pro sports franchise in North America in the last 12 years, that I know of. We aren’t dealing with “usual”, “bad” ineptitude - it’s a truly historical NHL run of futility, and that’s a fact.

I think the fact we didn’t tune out during the decade, for our own sanity, and continued to follow along represents a pretty significantly beat down, re: sports psychology. I don’t think there’s another facet of my life I willingly take part in that reciprocates as little joy, of late. Having this place with it’s fine folks is a big part of that, strengthening that tether. Admitting how absurdly bad they’ve been keeps things in perspective: it’s not normal, it’s perfectly understandable that your excitement had waned. It’s not you that broke. 

I think it’ll come back once they are a winning team. That’s what I tell myself, anyways. THEY took the excitement away by being this bad for this long. It’s perfectly acceptable to demand they bring the wins back before you feel excitement - they owe you that and you shouldn’t feel odd that you can’t muster up excitement without that.

That you WANT to care probably tells the truer story of your loyalty  

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

 

1:51 left offensive zone faceoff down a goal, you pull the goalie. Every coach every league. DG didn't. Why?

Can you connect the dots between that coaching decision and the lack of desperation you rightly point out?

Because the Sabres are not reliable on faceoffs. The coach knows this. 

Best faceoff guy is Cozens at 48.8%. Less than 50/50 chance of winning it with an open net. As the league’s second best offense, if they win the draw they have a chance to create something in the few seconds it takes the goalie to the bench. 

Risk vs gain taking into account other factors.

Edited December 11, 2022 by SABRES 0311

[Eleven]

@Thorny Thank You.

[mjd1001]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This teams lacks a proper roster, just like all the teams for the last decade+.  Hard to play desperate when you can’t clear the zone because you lack the players on the back end who can get it done on a consistent basis.

I agree.  Lacking desperation?  When you are not good enough you don't look desperate.  When you are really good you dont' have to look desperate.  Desperate means you aren't good enough to be in the lead but good enough to control the puck.  

If/when they play better, ARE better, or are not on the back end of back to backs......then they will 'look' more desperate.

[bunomatic]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I caught Krebs doing it last night in the third. It almost looked like Quinn was trying to shy away from it.

1:51 left offensive zone faceoff down a goal, you pull the goalie. Every coach every league. DG didn't. Why?

Can you connect the dots between that coaching decision and the lack of desperation you rightly point out?

I saw that with Krebbs and Quinn too. Krebbs was leaning into him and smiling/laughing and quinn just looked serious and seemed to ignore him.

[Marvin]

I wish we had built like this 10 years ago.  I would have more patience now.  As it is, I think there are low-risk chances to improve the team (3 LHD, etc.) that are unlikely to happen and I find that frustrating.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, bunomatic said:

Not sure if anyone noticed but our guys seem to be having fun. The smiling and joking on the bench whether we’re ahead or behind. Now have a look at the bench of our opponents. Its serious and determined to a man while the game is being played. Maybe this belongs in the winning matters thread but its something I’ve picked up watching our games. These guys should be competitive enough that they absolutely hate losing. I’m not sure they do.

I was going to say this very thing. I noticed for example Krebs smiling and laughing having a real good time when they were losing and should have been digging down extra. The attitude does seem to just be go out and have a good time. They are just flat as a result and basically the same so when the opposition gets serious they get beat. and they don't seem too upset about it (most of the time, there are exceptions, and this isn't every individual)

It's an interesting contrast to Torts approach in Philly where you have a team with very little talent, much less than the Sabres, but the work ethic and effort level is a demand not a request. I think it'll be interesting to see how things go when we play them again. We SHOULD beat them badly on paper, but will we? idk. 

I've felt for a long time that the Sabres run the place like a country club and maybe boot camp would be better. They certainly need to break into a sweat more often than they do. 

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

All I know is, this team stopped prioritizing winning, what 11-12 yrs ago, and I stopped prioritizing watching the team.  And here I am 11-12 yrs later and they still aren’t giving me a reason to prioritize watching the team.

JFC.  I’m not sure I’ll ever be fanatical again.  It’s not apathy, but it ain’t excitement either.  I want to care enough to get excited, but I can’t make it happen anymore.

I hear marriage can to that to you. Have you tried Viagra ? 

[Weave]

44 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I hear marriage can to that to you. Have you tried Viagra ? 

If this were about my marriage it would have had a happy ending.  YMMV

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

If this were about my marriage it would have had a happy ending.  YMMV

Your wife is one of the greatest people in the universe just for putting up with you, and we both know it!

[SwampD]

 

On 12/11/2022 at 10:03 AM, Eleven said:

I don't.  Coaching maybe?

It's not coaching. It's roster,... and youth. See oilers video below.

On 12/11/2022 at 10:34 AM, Believer said:

DG rarely shows any passion or desperation… even during the eight game skid… Why would we expect his team to be different??… No killer instinct produces no finish and often exasperating heartbreak… Most here chalk it up to the roster and growing pains… I chalk it up to coaching and messaging… Most likely a combination of both

I disagree, as well.

On 12/11/2022 at 12:20 PM, Taro T said:

Young players have fun on the bench & on the ice.  Is what it is.

The '81 Eulers were literally singing on the bench the whole series as the 14th seeded boys from Alberta were knocking the serious 3rd seeded Habs out of the playoffs in a best if 3.

Don't see it as much a "they don't hate losing enough" thing as it is a "they don't have enough talent yet to overcome major adversity" thing.  Maturing & bringing in a few judicial pieces would fix that.  MHO, YMMV.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wayne+gretzky+losing+stanley+cup+finals&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS858US858&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZw-uJyfT7AhXKFFkFHcpuBmMQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1440&bih=927&dpr=1#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d9996e0e,vid:kB3nC82xhLw

19 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree.  Lacking desperation?  When you are not good enough you don't look desperate.  When you are really good you dont' have to look desperate.  Desperate means you aren't good enough to be in the lead but good enough to control the puck.  

If/when they play better, ARE better, or are not on the back end of back to backs......then they will 'look' more desperate.

You do realize that the Penguins also played the night before, right?

Edited December 12, 2022 by SwampD

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, SwampD said:

 

It's not coaching. It's roster,... and youth. See oilers video below.

I disagree, as well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wayne+gretzky+losing+stanley+cup+finals&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS858US858&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZw-uJyfT7AhXKFFkFHcpuBmMQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1440&bih=927&dpr=1#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d9996e0e,vid:kB3nC82xhLw

You do realize that the Penguins also played the night before, right?

Yes, I sure do.  But you only picked out one part of what I said...if we are just talking that that ONE game, the other 2 points I make apply.

[Refuting]

They should call up Trotzky before the Tager requests a trade to Vegas 

[SwampD]

16 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes, I sure do.  But you only picked out one part of what I said...if we are just talking that that ONE game, the other 2 points I make apply.

k, but why bring up back to backs at all?

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

k, but why bring up back to backs at all?

Because it does apply sometime.  The world isn't black and white and neither is hockey.  it is a factor.  It would appear to be a bigger factory if Pitt wasn't on back to backs also, but because Pitt was also doesn't mean it doesn't contribute to the effort the Sabres put forward vs if they WEREN'T on back to back.

Edited December 12, 2022 by mjd1001

[pi2000]

Like I mentioned previously, the goal this season from management wasn't to qualify for a playoff spot... it was to continue to develop the young talent.    

They have a built-in excuse to lose, as it's expected, so they don't have any burning desire to play desperate hockey.

[SwampD]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

Because it does apply sometime.  The world isn't black and white and neither is hockey.

I really don't think it applies to the Sabres at all. They're too young. The fact that it was a back to back should have been an advantage for them against the older Pens.

Sabres just aren't that good.

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I really don't think it applies to the Sabres at all. They're too young. The fact that it was a back to back should have been an advantage for them against the older Pens.

Sabres just aren't that good.

Of course it applies, everyone gets tired with a larger workload in a short period of time. It may not apply as much to someone younger than older, but it applies to almost everyone.  Are you trying to say that the effort/results would be the same if they Sabres were not on the back end of a home and home but Pitt was?  Again, I'm not comparing Buf to Pitt in that single situation, I am talking about all situations on the end of a back to back.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Of course it applies, everyone gets tired with a larger workload in a short period of time. It may not apply as much to someone younger than older, but it applies to almost everyone.  Are you trying to say that the effort/results would be the same if they Sabres were not on the back end of a home and home but Pitt was?  Again, I'm not comparing Buf to Pitt in that single situation, I am talking about all situations on the end of a back to back.

This makes no sense. Pittsburgh played Buffalo the day before.

Why didn’t Pittsburgh look tired, but Buffalo did?

Edited December 13, 2022 by SwampD

[thewookie1]

24 minutes ago, SwampD said:

This makes no sense. Pittsburgh played Buffalo the day before.

Why didn’t Pittsburgh look tired, but Buffalo did?

I’d have 3 theories:

1. The drop off is more noticeable since our speed is higher than Pittsburgh in general thus our tired looks much different than our energized.

2. Vets are far more skilled at conserving energy than youngsters. They are better at staggering their drop off whereas younger players are a bit more boom then drop.

3. Our Top 3 D played far more time overall than their D as a whole. Dahlin nearly played an entire game worth of time between the two. 

[SwampD]

15 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d have 3 theories:

1. The drop off is more noticeable since our speed is higher than Pittsburgh in general thus our tired looks much different than our energized.

2. Vets are far more skilled at conserving energy than youngsters. They are better at staggering their drop off whereas younger players are a bit more boom then drop.

3. Our Top 3 D played far more time overall than their D as a whole. Dahlin nearly played an entire game worth of time between the two. 

Sorry. Not buying it. It makes no sense to use the back to back excuse when the team you played was on the very same back to back.