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Doesn't sound like losing is accepted


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“We played some really good hockey (during that losing streak),” Thompson said. “We can’t lose sight of that. It’s not the results you want. You hate losing. It’s not OK to lose. At the same time, we can’t lose sight of what we’re doing. We’re a young team. We’re building something. It’s not going to be easy. Everyone in this room knows that. We’re all willing to put in the work to get to where we want to be. We have a long ways to go, but … out of that losing streak we can take something and learn from it.”

- Tage Thompson

https://theathletic.com/3955984/2022/12/01/sabres-jack-quinn-shootout-win/?source=emp_shared_article

They are 3-1-1 since ending that 8 game skid (although it will probably be 3-2-1 after tonight). I just found this quote interesting, not simply because of the bolded but because Thompson says they have  a long ways to go. There is an acknowledgement there rather than an entitlement. 

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4 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

And that should mean they turned a  Corner? 

This team loves giving us fans false hope .

But hey at least another  Expansion team is gonna make the playoffs before Buffalo.

 Progress

I didn’t say anything about turning a corner, having hope, or progress.

I was just pointing out that if all you care about is wins, then you should be happy because they won last night.

I don’t think they have turned a corner, in fact I have not liked a lot of what I’ve seen the past 2 games, and it really has nothing to do with their record.

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8 minutes ago, Curt said:

I didn’t say anything about turning a corner, having hope, or progress.

I was just pointing out that if all you care about is wins, then you should be happy because they won last night.

I don’t think they have turned a corner, in fact I have not liked a lot of what I’ve seen the past 2 games, and it really has nothing to do with their record.

Its just  Aggravating that we're going to miss the playoffs again and be in the bottom. 

We should have a super team with all these picks by now.

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10 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Its just  Aggravating that we're going to miss the playoffs again and be in the bottom. 

We should have a super team with all these picks by now.

All what picks?  All these picks from the past two years?  All those players that aren’t close to sniffing the NHL yet?  It’s only two drafts where they have had a lot of picks.

From 2017-2020, the Sabres did not have that many draft picks.  Also, Murray, and Botterill to an extent, did not do too well drafting with the picks they did make.

From the start I thought that the Sabres would end up with mid-80’s points, and I still believe that they will.  Once we saw the roster, the playoffs were very unlikely.

I understand what they are doing this season.

Edited by Curt
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8 minutes ago, Curt said:

All what picks?  All these picks from the past two years?  All those players that aren’t close to sniffing the NHL yet?  It’s only two drafts where they have had a lot of picks.

From 2017-2020, the Sabres did not have that many draft picks.  Also, Murray, and Botterill to an extent, did not do too well drafting with the picks they did make.

From the start I thought that the Sabres would end up with mid-80’s points, and I still believe that they will.  Once we saw the roster, the playoffs were very unlikely.

I understand what they are doing this season.

We have been gathering draft picks for what 12 years ?

And what was accomplished? 

Whats another 3 more + years of waiting. 

I'll probably be in a nursing home 

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13 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Likely won't see that until we get better goaltending.  Only so much you can do when your goalies outside of your 41 year old are not even playing at a replacement level.

The lack of goaltending and the lack of proper D depth goes back to the GM’s lack of commitment to winning.  These needs have existed for the last two off-seasons and have yet to be properly filled. The D & G depth acquired by KA over these 2 off-seasons are Pysyk, Hagg, Butcher, Lyubushkin, Anderson, Dell, Comrie, and Subban. Not exactly a roll call of championship quality players. Maybe KA will eventually be committed to winning, but he isn’t right now.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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28 minutes ago, Curt said:

I didn’t say anything about turning a corner, having hope, or progress.

I was just pointing out that if all you care about is wins, then you should be happy because they won last night.

I don’t think they have turned a corner, in fact I have not liked a lot of what I’ve seen the past 2 games, and it really has nothing to do with their record.

Results-wise they likely won't turn a corner until Comrie is back, and even then it might not happen.

But there has been a bit of a shift in the coaching which indicates winning is taking a higher priority.

These past 3 games the Cozens line has been used as the 2nd line & the line that hasn't been performing as well as the other 3 was dropped to 4th line deployment & TOI.  Additionally, at minimum for the 3rd period last night, possibly the 2nd as well, Pilut & Fitzgerald weren't deployed together.  Fitz was out w/ Dahlin the few times he took a shift.   & Pilut was out w/ Power.  Which would seem to indicate that strict development isn't the overriding factor.

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2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Results-wise they likely won't turn a corner until Comrie is back, and even then it might not happen.

But there has been a bit of a shift in the coaching which indicates winning is taking a higher priority.

These past 3 games the Cozens line has been used as the 2nd line & the line that hasn't been performing as well as the other 3 was dropped to 4th line deployment & TOI.  Additionally, at minimum for the 3rd period last night, possibly the 2nd as well, Pilut & Fitzgerald weren't deployed together.  Fitz was out w/ Dahlin the few times he took a shift.   & Pilut was out w/ Power.  Which would seem to indicate that strict development isn't the overriding factor.

Yeah, the change in player usage is definitely something to monitor.

I think that they are determined to find out/decide what they have in a few of their players (Mitts, Asplund, Olofsson, maybe Krebs etc).  These guys have 4-5 years of NA pro experience and Sabres are going to need to decide whether they are going to be part of the team going forward or if they will be moved out in favor of either younger players coming up, or role player/s coming in from outside.

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4 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, the change in player usage is definitely something to monitor.

I think that they are determined to find out/decide what they have in a few of their players (Mitts, Asplund, Olofsson, maybe Krebs etc).  These guys have 4-5 years of NA pro experience and Sabres are going to need to decide whether they are going to be part of the team going forward or if they will be moved out in favor of either younger players coming up, or role player/s coming in from outside.

The coach has spoken on the radio about assessing young players. He leaned into a belief that it is better to be patient before making a concluding judgment on a young player. That is not to say that the leash for players is endless. My sense from listening to him on his last WGR radio stint is that especially for Mitts the leash is near its end. 

When I watch Mitts you see that there are a number of good attributes, such as skill level, skating and effort. It just doesn't seem to translate into production. And it appears the coach is recognizing it by severely curtailing his and his linemates' minutes. It would be such a bonus if Mitts could make the leap. Most others have a hardened jaundiced view of him. I'm not in that category yet.  I just don't know what his issue is? Maybe he simply needs a change of scenery to refreshen his game?

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If anything, the whole quote makes it sound like Losing is OK/Accepted because they played good hockey and are young and building something, so as long as they take something or learn something from the loses its OK

And they have been rebuilding and collecting picks for over a decade now, just because a new Coach/GM steps in, it doesn't erase their entire past or whats been going on with the franchise.

There has been plenty of picks and talent come and go through this organization during that time that they shouldn't still be at risk of getting another top 5-10 pick

But every year, and every regime change is the same, dupe the fans into believing theres something special coming, some magical dynasty that will continue to thrive and win once a couple of those coveted picks/prospects turn into NHL superstars. Then every year they just aren't ready to take that next step, and just need another year of development before they can make the jump to Cup favorites, you don't want to just make the playoffs, that won't help the team/franchise, if they are going to make it into the playoffs they better be able to make it all the way so its better to just not make it and get another high pick for the pipeline......

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14 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, the change in player usage is definitely something to monitor.

I think that they are determined to find out/decide what they have in a few of their players (Mitts, Asplund, Olofsson, maybe Krebs etc).  These guys have 4-5 years of NA pro experience and Sabres are going to need to decide whether they are going to be part of the team going forward or if they will be moved out in favor of either younger players coming up, or role player/s coming in from outside.

It definitely seems to be an evaluation year.  And a development year.  Which builds the frustration.  They should be evaluating at all times and trying to win.

But they seem petty set on their top 2 lines & top 2 pairings.  The evaluations there seem complete.  Expect they know what they expect from the older guys in the bottom 6 & bottom pairing & where they see them fitting in (or not) for the future.

They're still writing their book on the others.

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20 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

If anything, the whole quote makes it sound like Losing is OK/Accepted because they played good hockey and are young and building something, so as long as they take something or learn something from the loses its OK

And they have been rebuilding and collecting picks for over a decade now, just because a new Coach/GM steps in, it doesn't erase their entire past or whats been going on with the franchise.

There has been plenty of picks and talent come and go through this organization during that time that they shouldn't still be at risk of getting another top 5-10 pick

But every year, and every regime change is the same, dupe the fans into believing theres something special coming, some magical dynasty that will continue to thrive and win once a couple of those coveted picks/prospects turn into NHL superstars. Then every year they just aren't ready to take that next step, and just need another year of development before they can make the jump to Cup favorites, you don't want to just make the playoffs, that won't help the team/franchise, if they are going to make it into the playoffs they better be able to make it all the way so its better to just not make it and get another high pick for the pipeline......

To each their own. I disagree wholeheartedly with your interpretation. I think you are confusing results with what he is saying and I don't think some magical anything is coming. Tage shouldn't either. 

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3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Losing may not be acceptable to the players or even the coaches, but so far KA hasn’t shown yet that losing isn’t acceptable. Until management is committed fo winning the team won’t win.

I seriously doubt losing is acceptable to Adams or anyone else in the organization. But they’re realists in the process of developing the youngest team in the league and I suspect they view losing as something that will have to be tolerated and that’s not the same as acceptable.

We fans don’t need to be patient and we are right to be frustrated. But KA and the organization have to be patient, imo. 

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If we go back to some of the post game comments from Eichel, Reinhart, etc you would hear similar comments. I’m sure the same enthusiasm, excitement, drive was in that locker room for the first couple of years too. The players always want to win. 
 

we all know too well that its the decisions made by the powers to be that will make or break this team. I’ve been burned way to many times. I won’t believe until I see it 

Edited by Sidc3000
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3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I seriously doubt losing is acceptable to Adams or anyone else in the organization. But they’re realists in the process of developing the youngest team in the league and I suspect they view losing as something that will have to be tolerated and that’s not the same as acceptable.

We fans don’t need to be patient and we are right to be frustrated. But KA and the organization have to be patient, imo. 

Acceptable or tolerated really seems to be getting deep into nuance IMHO.

The timing of the Comrie injury really stinks because he broke right before the D (temporarily) got healthy.  He looked OK before the D went MASH unit.  He wasn't good enough in front of a bad team.  But right now the team in front of him is playing better than what he backstopped.  3 lines are giving what we expected/hoped & the top pairing is playing well too generally though they're taking too many penalties.  Would really like to see what he can do when most of the guys in front of him are on their game before writing him off.  But he's listed as "week to week."

And knowing what we have in Comrie might go a ways towards parsing which side of the nuance Adams is on.

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Just a bit of pushback on collecting picks:

Recall that XGMTM squandered picks getting Bogosian, Kane, Lehner, and O'Reilly.

Recall that XGMJB drafted fewer than 1 player per round and wasted a 1st trading away Brendan Guhle.

At least GMKA actually has been collecting and using his picks.  Is his process excruciatingly slow given our current drought?  God, yes.  But as of now, it does seem to be working.  It is clear that he needs to get some defencive depth and better goaltending.  I do fear that he is willing to go the 6-headed monster route and expect someone to get hot in the playoffs like Cam Ward did.

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50 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, the change in player usage is definitely something to monitor.

I think that they are determined to find out/decide what they have in a few of their players (Mitts, Asplund, Olofsson, maybe Krebs etc).  These guys have 4-5 years of NA pro experience and Sabres are going to need to decide whether they are going to be part of the team going forward or if they will be moved out in favor of either younger players coming up, or role player/s coming in from outside.

I wanted to check the 4-5 years because with the exception of VO they're all still under 25 years old so I was intrigued. With COVID shortening one season and crashing another, plus injuries, they're a bit under 4-5 years of experience in terms of games played. For normal seasons, the low end 4*76gp AHL = 304 games, and the top end would be 5*82 (NHL) = 410 games.

Career AHL/NHL = total gp:

  • Krebs 25/78 = 103 gp
  • Asplund 111/155 = 266 gp
  • Mitts 36/218 = 254 gp
  • VO 66/211 = 277 gp (1/3 of the way into his 4th season by available games to play)

I agree they're being evaluated in exactly the manner you've stated, but they're more between 2-4 years of experience in NA pro games played vs. their how their contracts have played out (Mitts burned a year, etc.).

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