Why is it Different This Time?

[SwampD]

I have heard over and over that it is different this time. They are doing it the right way, finally. I even believed it for a tick,…

…and I still kinda do, but I need convincing. Everyone I see looks completely average (which is actually kind of a step up.) I know that they are REALLY young and if on an actual NHL franchise, most of them would still be in the AHL, but this is where we are.

Why is it different this time?
Who are the players that are going to push us into being an actual NHL team competing in the playoffs?
What is it that you see in them that makes you think they are special?

 

This sucks.

[Weave]

It isn’t different.

As Thorny so aptly said, and bumped, the team won’t start winning until the expectation is to win, period.

Until then,

[Thorny]

Well this time we score more goals and everyone has been extended in advance

[Refuting]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well this time we score more goals and everyone has been extended in advance

Even the goals have dried up 

[Thorny]

If I had a guess, I’d say what might be different this time is a willingness to continue to do nothing. 

Might sound bad, personally I don’t like it. But wasn’t the writing on the wall when we heard about the Pegulas  saying Botts could keep his job if he just fired everyone? That’s the key point, and the true illumination of the priorities here in Buffalo.
 

Botterill’s results had been bad. That he was offered to stay was the red flag of all red flags. 
 

*performance wasn’t the issue*

What mattered was the $. Adams rode in on his budget horse and his “I can do it, I’ll fire those people!” was music to Terry’s ears. 

These guys are inept.

“How can you spin this positively, though, Thorny?”

Said it a million times, Adams had such vIbEs because he was completing the “easy” part. With the amount of data out there, if you understand it..Liger could draft reasonably well for an NHL team. Not saying anyone could do it, very smart dude - but the acumen to understand a draft isn’t wholly rare among mathematical minds. 

If Adams continues to just do nothing, we don’t make deals and we just draft and develop, we won’t become a good team anytime soon. (And, to my preferred theory, that weave mentioned: we may never, if we continue this way: I think we have to actively place the priority on winning)

But, law of averages: I think the math would suggest we eventually improve. (Which I hate counting on, as the sabres have shown a particular, historical ability to buck the earthly trend of mathematics) 

Perhaps the organization just looked in the mirror and realized how stupid it was and is removing any and all avenues where aptitude, positive or negative, can show itself. 

Murray fired after 3. Botterill wanted to spend the money all nhl teams have access to in general. They’ll do nothing this time. That’s what’s different. 
 

 

[thewookie1]

Something is different but I can't exactly put my finger on it. I think the problem is a combination of lack of experience and a lack of players willing to play a lesser role in order to win versus most of these years being purely due to a lack of skill.

 

Essentially, too few players are willing to consistently do the grunt work required to succeed; everyone wants to be the star. 

Okposo and Girgensons will fight the good fight but one is old and the other lacks overarching skill.

Tuch and Cozens both tend to play the right way but both get cutsie at times. (Tuch as of late seems to be trying to be too cutsie in order to help the team; when technically we need the opposite)

Peterka is inexperienced but plays a similar way to the two above.

Asplund is Larsson 2.0, a guy who wants Top 6 minutes and won't just accept he's a better Bot 6 guy.

Tage shows it intermittently, not grimy as much as willing to go to the front of the net and use his size.

Skinner is a perimeter player who will try and deke his way into the greasy areas but when the puck isn't bouncing his way he looks worthless.  

Krebs and Quinn both can be tenacious but aren't experienced enough nor consistently hounding the puck. Krebs is more disappointing since he also has the whole super passing talent but does more harm than good most nights.

Mitts is truly an enigma wrapped in a paradox. He's both talented but unskilled; fast but slow; smart but dumb; good but bad. He can look awesome one moment and look braindead the next and this continues game after game after game. It's like he has skill and fight but chooses not to for some unknown reason.

In the end, most of the forwards are more built and personally desire the Top 6 role and thus seem to either dog it or ignore their role entirely. 

[PerreaultForever]

It isn't different. 

In fact, it may be worse. 

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Something is different but I can't exactly put my finger on it. I think the problem is a combination of lack of experience and a lack of players willing to play a lesser role in order to win versus most of these years being purely due to a lack of skill.

 

Essentially, too few players are willing to consistently do the grunt work required to succeed; everyone wants to be the star. 

Okposo and Girgensons will fight the good fight but one is old and the other lacks overarching skill.

Tuch and Cozens both tend to play the right way but both get cutsie at times. (Tuch as of late seems to be trying to be too cutsie in order to help the team; when technically we need the opposite)

Peterka is inexperienced but plays a similar way to the two above.

Asplund is Larsson 2.0, a guy who wants Top 6 minutes and won't just accept he's a better Bot 6 guy.

Tage shows it intermittently, not grimy as much as willing to go to the front of the net and use his size.

Skinner is a perimeter player who will try and deke his way into the greasy areas but when the puck isn't bouncing his way he looks worthless.  

Krebs and Quinn both can be tenacious but aren't experienced enough nor consistently hounding the puck. Krebs is more disappointing since he also has the whole super passing talent but does more harm than good most nights.

Mitts is truly an enigma wrapped in a paradox. He's both talented but unskilled; fast but slow; smart but dumb; good but bad. He can look awesome one moment and look braindead the next and this continues game after game after game. It's like he has skill and fight but chooses not to for some unknown reason.

In the end, most of the forwards are more built and personally desire the Top 6 role and thus seem to either dog it or ignore their role entirely. 

I really don'y like this post. There is just so much wrong that I will take it as a whole instead of breaking down each part.

You put all the blame on the players themselves, as if their failings are somehow their own choice. I think that is crap.

I have absolutely no doubt, that every single player, on any team, wants to be the absolute best they can be, and will do whatever they can to make the team better, and take any role they are told in order to win. Not one single player (especially on this team) would choose to not try out of spite. I find that ridiculous.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I really don'y like this post. There is just so much wrong that I will take it as a whole instead of breaking down each part.

You put all the blame on the players themselves, as if their failings are somehow their own choice. I think that is crap.

I have absolutely no doubt, that every single player, on any team, wants to be the absolute best they can be, and will do whatever they can to make the team better, and take any role they are told in order to win. Not one single player (especially on this team) would choose to not try out of spite. I find that ridiculous.

I certainly wouldn't say its out of spite; its more or less unconscious. If all the players think that a specific way of them playing is going to help the team win; they'll naturally gravitate to that. I'm not saying they are trying to spite their teammates but rather they all are wanting to help but since they all try to do so in a similar manner it creates an endless feedback loop. 

If you have 5 dishwasher people in a restaurant and the boss says to go help in the kitchen; what happens if all 5 go to the dishwasher? Well no food gets made and the 5 people overcrowd the sink thus inversely making it more difficult to wash the dishes. None of the five are doing it out of spite or malice; they just naturally go to where they feel they are best suited. 

If you have 5 surgeons but no nurses or an anesthesiologist then more than likely the surgery won't go well even with the myriad of surgeons since they likely don't have the required skills to "knock someone out" and if they are used to running a room, some may struggle to follow due to the unfamiliarity of the position.

 

This is what I'm trying to portray.

[Claude Balls]

Not different at all. Missed on all draft picks. Worthless hires of clueless first time GM's. Dumb hires of 1st time head coaches or washed up re-treads. Not bring in a worthwhile goalie. Terry needs to sell the team. He has not one ***** clue. The Sabres have ruined my love for hockey. I have more fun going to a 1,200 seat RIT home game. Such a great atmosphere.  

[triumph_communes]

Coaching 

[SwampD]

7 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I certainly wouldn't say its out of spite; its more or less unconscious. If all the players think that a specific way of them playing is going to help the team win; they'll naturally gravitate to that. I'm not saying they are trying to spite their teammates but rather they all are wanting to help but since they all try to do so in a similar manner it creates an endless feedback loop. 

If you have 5 dishwasher people in a restaurant and the boss says to go help in the kitchen; what happens if all 5 go to the dishwasher? Well no food gets made and the 5 people overcrowd the sink thus inversely making it more difficult to wash the dishes. None of the five are doing it out of spite or malice; they just naturally go to where they feel they are best suited. 

If you have 5 surgeons but no nurses or an anesthesiologist then more than likely the surgery won't go well even with the myriad of surgeons since they likely don't have the required skills to "knock someone out" and if they are used to running a room, some may struggle to follow due to the unfamiliarity of the position.

 

This is what I'm trying to portray.

Are you sure? Because it is not what you said at all.

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Something is different but I can't exactly put my finger on it. I think the problem is a combination of lack of experience and a lack of players willing to play a lesser role in order to win versus most of these years being purely due to a lack of skill.

 

Essentially, too few players are willing to consistently do the grunt work required to succeed; everyone wants to be the star. 

Okposo and Girgensons will fight the good fight but one is old and the other lacks overarching skill.

Tuch and Cozens both tend to play the right way but both get cutsie at times. (Tuch as of late seems to be trying to be too cutsie in order to help the team; when technically we need the opposite)

Peterka is inexperienced but plays a similar way to the two above.

Asplund is Larsson 2.0, a guy who wants Top 6 minutes and won't just accept he's a better Bot 6 guy.

Tage shows it intermittently, not grimy as much as willing to go to the front of the net and use his size.

Skinner is a perimeter player who will try and deke his way into the greasy areas but when the puck isn't bouncing his way he looks worthless.  

Krebs and Quinn both can be tenacious but aren't experienced enough nor consistently hounding the puck. Krebs is more disappointing since he also has the whole super passing talent but does more harm than good most nights.

Mitts is truly an enigma wrapped in a paradox. He's both talented but unskilled; fast but slow; smart but dumb; good but bad. He can look awesome one moment and look braindead the next and this continues game after game after game. It's like he has skill and fight but chooses not to for some unknown reason.

In the end, most of the forwards are more built and personally desire the Top 6 role and thus seem to either dog it or ignore their role entirely. 

Almost every point was that these players were playing this way by choice.

I personally don’t want any player we have to ever accept that that are a bottom 6 player. They should always want to be better. Nobody is dogging it or ignoring their role, that’s ridiculous. They just aren’t that good.

 

 

6 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Coaching 

So, you think DG is a good coach and it will be different this time because we have him? I agree. He is one aspect of “this time” that I don’t worry about.

[Buffalonill]

[PASabreFan]

7 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Coaching 

This is based on literally nothing.

[MISabresFan]

I am starting to get tired of reading from the press, we didn't show up to compete, the first period we were not competing, we couldn't compete at the end, etc.

Ok if this is the problem, change it.  If a player doesn't compete have him pick splinters out of his sphincter.  

[Claude Balls]

19 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

I am starting to get tired of reading from the press, we didn't show up to compete, the first period we were not competing, we couldn't compete at the end, etc.

Ok if this is the problem, change it.  If a player doesn't compete have him pick splinters out of his sphincter.  

So that would mean the Sabres ice about......one or two players. These guys are all skating for a big paycheck. Tage (and Dahlin) are the the only guys with true effort. Everyone else plays the game like it's practice. 

[Goldseatsaud]

A hex down there, lol 

[Radar]

9 hours ago, Claude Balls said:

Not different at all. Missed on all draft picks. Worthless hires of clueless first time GM's. Dumb hires of 1st time head coaches or washed up re-treads. Not bring in a worthwhile goalie. Terry needs to sell the team. He has not one ***** clue. The Sabres have ruined my love for hockey. I have more fun going to a 1,200 seat RIT home game. Such a great atmosphere.  

Didn't miss on all the draft picks. Agree with rest of post but the no brainer picks are okay.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The Sabres have drafted good players that are continuing to learn and grow as a team.

They will have two studs on D.  With a defensive anchor too.  They need to find a reliable #4 that is young enough to fill out the top 4.  The rest will be serviceable.

The forwards are pretty good, but they need to fill one last legit top six guy.  Ideally two that would push Asplund back into the bottom six where he is better suited.

Cozsie and Tuchsie are good top six players on a good team.  Skinsie is going to start to show his age, but is still a good goal scorer.  Tage is becoming / is a true 1C.  I think Jacksie will help us forget about that other guy.  Mattsie will be a good player in the NHL.

The Sabres desparately need Levsie to become that true top tier NHL goaler.

Murrsie was a boob and Bottsie was on the right track until he hired Ralph which set the team back along with some other boneheaded moves.

Donsie is the right coach for now.

The thing is and it's always been this way ... the difference between winning and losing in the NHL is very little.

These Sabres will be fine.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Sabres Fan in NS
more goodly ... maybe ??

[bunomatic]

Too many rookies. KAs plan is flawed. None of these players or very few know how to win in this league and I’d throw the coach in that category too. 4 rookies and how many 2nd year. Its a flawed approach.

[Zamboni]

5 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

The Sabres have drafted good players that are continuing to learn and grow as a team.

They will have two studs on D.  With a defensive anchor too.  They need to find a reliable #4 that is young enough to fill out the top 4.  The rest will be serviceable.

The forwards are pretty good, but they need to fill one last legit top six guy.  Ideally two that would push Asplund back into the bottom six where he is better suited.

Cozsie and Tuchsie are good top six players on a good team.  Skinsie is going to start to show his age, but is still a good goal scorer.  Tage is becoming / is a true 1C.  I think Jacksie will help us forget about that other guy.  Mattsie will be a good player in the NHL.

The Sabres desparately need Levsie to become that true top tier NHL goaler.

Murrsie was a boob and Bottsie was on the right track until he hired Ralph which set the team back along with some other boneheaded moves.

Donsie is the right coach for now.

The thing is and it's always been this way ... the difference between winning and losing in the NHL is very little.

These Sabres will be fine.

Ok you over did it with the sie thing 😂

 

But I agree with your overall point 👍🏼

[Taro T]

Being one of the ones that was saying THIS one seemed different, will answer.

1. When healthy (& realize nobody stays healthy) they actually have NHLers not dressing at F and arguably at D.  (Though w/ absolutely no depth in G).  That hasn't been the case since Regier uttered the word suffering.

2. They have NHL caliber goaltending.  Again, with the caveat when healthy.  Realize the analytics crew says Comrie is hot death but really doubt they include account for all the goals Power & others have scored on him.  While it is a different style - he's pretty much Ullmark.  (But Ullmark's great this year & Comrie sucks.  On paper, yes, but Ullmark is in his 2nd year w/ a defensively sound squad in front of him & Comrie is in his 1st year w/ a team that STILL doesn't appear to work on defensive play in practice.  Those make huge differences.)  Comrie doesn't give up ANYTHING on the ice.  That's how we knew he was injured and not just hurt, he never gives up goals along the ice.  His glove is merely average, but it isn't bad IMHO.  Anderson looked good before playing in 3 straight.  Not great, good.  And he likely could last the full year if he could stay at 1 out of 4 games.

3.  They haven't stopped playing after going down a goal or 2.  Unlike when they were coached by Krueger, they weren't giving up.

4.  Dahlin was playing up to the hype with Samuelsson.  He's still playing well but having a very good partner lets him just play.  And Samuelsson is close to coming back which means Norris finalist Dahlin is close to being back.

5.  These guys are a team.  They aren't a collection of cliques wearing the same thing 82 times/ year.  That matters when you're learning to win.  Not so much when you've figured it out.

6.  The young mid-level guys that are expected to be counted on are better this year than they were.  Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund, Samuelsson all are better than last year.

7.  Prior to Okposo getting injured, they'd only played 2 bad games out of 12.  And 1 of those was the last game of a road trip the 1st game without their best defensive D-man.  That was way better than in recent years prior to last year's finish.  Even when they were winning in October's past, they were getting outplayed.  That wasn't the case this year.

But in these past 4 or so games, there have been 2 major injury situations which could let this be just the same as usual.  1. The loss of Okposo & Girgensons hurts.  The team has looked frailer since Kyle has been out.  He's too old to lead by on-ice production but he does seem to have a calming influence when things could start going sideways.  Girgensons seems to help there too, but Kyle seems to be the key on the leadership side.

And 2.  The big one - losing Comrie sucks.  UPL isn't a good NHL goalie.  They can't ride him like Eric which means Andy will be called on too often.  Am very concerned that he'll be injured soon too playing too often.

Still expect them to get back to playing around an NHL playoff pace once Comrie & Muel are back, but not expecting it until they both are back.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Taro T

[nucci]

It's a bit different because they are trying to add talent more than getting rid of it. There are times we look really good. Having said that, I don't have the optimism of some saying be patient, the team is growing and leaning to win. It's just not there right now.

[SwampD]

So, is everyone trying to convince me, or themselves? Cuz all I hear is platitudes.

Nothing said so far differentiates this team from any other team in the NHL.

This sucks.

[In The Buff]

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And 2.  The big one - losing Comrie sucks.  UPL isn't a good NHL goalie.  They can't ride him like Eric which means Andy will be called on too often.  Am very concerned that he'll be injured too soon playingmtoo often.

Still expect them to get back to playing around an NHL playoff pace once Comrie & Muel are back, but not expecting it until they both are back.

Was a nice post Taro, i'll just reply to the last part. Can you imagine if Andy loses any time? I'm getting flashbacks to last year of scrambling to find a goalie to dress.

The fact that its even a possibility... again, has to be considered a failure on Adams' part to address the position in an appropriate/significant way.

Last year one couldve said it was bad luck or a culmination of bad events. There's no such excuse this year.

I understand the reasons we give for why the decision was made to go with Comrie & Co this year, there's just too much 'hope' involved with both, where if i were GM i'd want something more dependable & proven. We hope Comrie's previous small sample size carries into a full season or that he can handle that. And we hope Anderson's body doesnt fall apart out there, but its at least probable it will.

Im not putting our woes on the goaltending tho as the main issues ive seen stem from just lousy play in front of whoever is in net. Letting forwards skate free, too many oddman rushes against, players out of position, bad passing or giveaways etc. Our margin for error is so low as we have to play near our best everynight it seems to be in a position for a win. We depend on clutch saves to keep us in games when the play breaks down & thats where having an above average goalie helps. Something we haven't had since Miller & before that Hasek.

There is 1 common thread between our 2 previous playoff teams, if only we could figure it out lol.