What did we do to deserve this?

[PASabreFan]

Seriously. I wanna know.

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Seriously. I wanna know.

 

[Weave]

22 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Seriously. I wanna know.

I’m not taking any blame.  
And I’m sure not gonna accept any guilt.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Weave

[Pimlach]

I feel the same way at times.  We were such a great hockey town at one time.  We started with great ownership, a great front office, and we quickly acquired great players.  50+ years later there are still no cups, too many irrelevant teams to count, and too few star players. 
 

Another playoff miss is almost certain. Suffering in the midst of a historic NHL playoff drought. Poor management killed one core group, they are gone.  The losing  culture is still a thing that will keep good veteran players away.  
 

Now we have a new core and a bunch of prospects.  Can this unproven GM and HC get us to the next level ?   We have to stick with them a while longer to see. We still need a goalie. I have been saying that since Miller was shipped out.  

Edited November 11, 2022 by Pimlach

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Seriously. I wanna know.

When we let both captains go that was the end 

[nfreeman]

The sky isn't falling just yet.  They've lost 4 in a row, which stinks, but 3 of those were to legit cup contenders, and each game was close and competitive.  The loss to AZ was pretty disappointing, as they just didn't play hard enough.

They aren't getting what they need from Mitts, Cozens, Skinner and Tuch right now.  Those are 4 mainstays and all have been pretty up-and-down.  Even so, each has shown stretches of very good play.

They need to get healthy on D, and more than anything IMHO, they need to develop mental toughness.  They don't quit, but they don't quite bear down and execute in crunch time either

I think it will come.

[mjd1001]

12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

The sky isn't falling just yet.  They've lost 4 in a row, which stinks, but 3 of those were to legit cup contenders, and each game was close and competitive.  The loss to AZ was pretty disappointing, as they just didn't play hard enough.

They aren't getting what they need from Mitts, Cozens, Skinner and Tuch right now.  Those are 4 mainstays and all have been pretty up-and-down.  Even so, each has shown stretches of very good play.

They need to get healthy on D, and more than anything IMHO, they need to develop mental toughness.  They don't quit, but they don't quite bear down and execute in crunch time either

I think it will come.

I agree. I still think this is a high 80's point team with the potential to be in the low 90's.

They got hit hard by injuries, and Comrie has had a couple bad games after having a couple good ones. If this turns into a 5 game losing streak I'm not worried as that is likely.  6 game losing streak and then get back to me.

[grinreaper]

5 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

When we let both captains go that was the end 

Even though it is somewhat fantastical to go back 15 years to find fault I'm thinking that we fell on our (crossed) swords when Punch Imlach wasted a draft pick on Taro Tsujimoto. The Hockey Gods have never forgiven him and get a good chuckle over pucks going through/under the back of the net and such cries of protest as "No Goal". 

Edited November 11, 2022 by grinreaper

[Pimlach]

23 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

Even though it is somewhat fantastical to go back 15 years to find fault I'm thinking that we fell on our (crossed) swords when Punch Imlach wasted a draft pick on Taro Tsujimoto. The Hockey Gods have never forgiven him and get a good chuckle over pucks going through/under the back of the net and such cries of protest as "No Goal". 

Other Sabres GMs and Owners have committed far more egregious acts, some hockey related and some not.  

 

 

[Indabuff]

Somehow, someway this is Eichel's fault. 

[msw2112]

There's always the glass-half-full approach.  We have a young, talented developing team.  They are playing .500 hockey.  Most of their losses were against the top teams in the league that are a few years ahead of the Sabres on the development curve, and the Sabres were competitive in those games, even without two of their top 4 defensemen.  If they finish at .500, that's a great improvement and a step in the right direction after many years of being below that mark.  I still think they can finish above .500. 

And despite the emotional part of it, Vegas has one of the best teams in the league and a healthy Jack Eichel is one of the best players in the league, despite being a di*k.  The Sabres got a nice haul in exchange for him, and his absence has improved the chemistry of the locker room.  It's time to move on.

Edited November 11, 2022 by msw2112

[pastajoe]

Buffalo is like the Moses of the sports world. We are allowed to get a peak at what the promised land looks like but are never allowed to cross into it. 

[grinreaper]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Other Sabres GMs and Owners have committed far more egregious acts, some hockey related and some not.  

 

 

Sarcasm in response to a ridiculous post blaming the Sabres struggles today on the loss of co-captains 15 years ago. 

[Quint]

Buffalo just isn't very good at sports.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

The sky isn't falling just yet.  They've lost 4 in a row, which stinks, but 3 of those were to legit cup contenders, and each game was close and competitive.  The loss to AZ was pretty disappointing, as they just didn't play hard enough.

They aren't getting what they need from Mitts, Cozens, Skinner and Tuch right now.  Those are 4 mainstays and all have been pretty up-and-down.  Even so, each has shown stretches of very good play.

They need to get healthy on D, and more than anything IMHO, they need to develop mental toughness.  They don't quit, but they don't quite bear down and execute in crunch time either

I think it will come.

I somewhat agree with this post. We are pretty much getting the season that we were expecting, so far. I’m not sure if I ever actually believed that we were going to make the playoffs, but if i did (as I’m sure others did as well) it would have been because of an everything went right scenario (Comrie was a true #1, all the kids progressed to their ceilings early, maybe a unicorn or two). Alas, not to be, and we are most likely looking at another record setting tally on the playoff drought big board.

I thought I was ready for it. I really did. But to see it actually happen is way more brutal than I expected.

4 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

Sarcasm in response to a ridiculous post blaming the Sabres struggles today on the loss of co-captains 15 years ago. 

When you lose assets and get nothing in return, it puts you in a hole that can take a couple of seasons to climb out of. It happened with Hasek, and it absolutely happened when those two left. It is what led to the Sabres deciding that they wanted to make the whole even deeper, and here we are 12 years later. It’s definitely not the entire reason, but it is a pretty substantial part of a rich tapestry of suck.

[Pimlach]

We are the California Golden Seals if my youth.  Only we are in this nightmare about 3 times longer. 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, grinreaper said:

Even though it is somewhat fantastical to go back 15 years to find fault I'm thinking that we fell on our (crossed) swords when Punch Imlach wasted a draft pick on Taro Tsujimoto. The Hockey Gods have never forgiven him and get a good chuckle over pucks going through/under the back of the net and such cries of protest as "No Goal". 

Realize you were making a funny.

But the Sabres wasted absolutely nothing in that draft.  Teams could draft as many players as they wanted to grab that year to try to keep players from going to the WHA.  The Sabres only drafted 1 more player and only 5 players selected after #183 made the NHL and only 3 of those played even a full season.  Aggravating Clarence Campbell was well worth the pick.

[GoPuckYourself]

The fast starts always confuse me, like last season I started thinking maybe this is a playoff team even when I knew they weren’t and again it caught me off guard but I even posted before the season that I felt the Sabres would be close to the same record and again the fast start has/ had me thinking otherwise. We’re a team on the rise but it’s clear we aren’t quite there yet. 

[Eleven]

You know.  Deep down, you know.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

 

[Thorny]

Marek just said the Sabres start was a "mirage", he was comparing them to Colorado like 2 days ago haha

Fickle 

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

The sky isn't falling just yet.  They've lost 4 in a row, which stinks, but 3 of those were to legit cup contenders, and each game was close and competitive.  The loss to AZ was pretty disappointing, as they just didn't play hard enough.

They aren't getting what they need from Mitts, Cozens, Skinner and Tuch right now.  Those are 4 mainstays and all have been pretty up-and-down.  Even so, each has shown stretches of very good play.

They need to get healthy on D, and more than anything IMHO, they need to develop mental toughness.  They don't quit, but they don't quite bear down and execute in crunch time either

I think it will come.

I agree with all this but as always, shudder at the bolded. People waiting for the/playing the "we just need to get healthy" card - don't bother. If you need a healthy roster to make the playoffs - you aren't going to make the playoffs. This is just how the league works - to be good you need to build a team inclusive of withstanding injuries that will arise. 

Pretty *decent* player, but if the loss of Mattias Samuelsson sinks your chances of winning, you didn't build a team with a very good chance of winning. 

Yes, even if you've also lost the great Jokijarju and are down, gasp, 2 roster players. 

Everyone has injuries. 

- - - 

We've never yet recovered from the decision to "build a good team for later, not now" ie the Tank. Still working our way out from that. I'm not saying the tank is the CAUSE of why we are bad - with good acumen the decisions of the tank could have been reversed already. But it created a high degree of difficulty, and...we haven't had that good acumen. At least not yet. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Thorny

[Taro T]

59 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I agree with all this but as always, shudder at the bolded. People waiting for the/playing the "we just need to get healthy" card - don't bother. If you need a healthy roster to make the playoffs - you aren't going to make the playoffs. This is just how the league works - to be good you need to build a team inclusive of withstanding injuries that will arise. 

Pretty *decent* player, but if the loss of Mattias Samuelsson sinks your chances of winning, you didn't build a team with a very good chance of winning. 

Yes, even if you've also lost the great Jokijarju and are down, gasp, 2 roster players. 

Everyone has injuries. 

- - - 

We've never yet recovered from the decision to "build a good team for later, not now" ie the Tank. Still working our way out from that. I'm not saying the tank is the CAUSE of why we are bad - with good acumen the decisions of the tank could have been reversed already. But it created a high degree of difficulty, and...we haven't had that good acumen. At least not yet. 

With all due respect, they've lacked 2 of the top 5 every game since the middle of the Vancouver game and at least 3 of the top 5 in 1/2 of the other games since then.  All of those games except the 2-3 the Lyubushkin missed have had him playing as a shell of himself.

That's a crazy bad run of injuries not even 10% of the way into the season.

Which has left them with a true 1 most games, a rookie, an injured 4/5, and 3-4 6-9's.  That's a crazy amount of injuries at a single position.

And, for all the hand wringing around here, this team is still at the mythical DeLuca 0.500 even w/ the D injuries.  IF they do fall below 0.500 tomorrow, really doubt that'll be the case for long.

[Thorny]

27 minutes ago, Taro T said:

With all due respect, they've lacked 2 of the top 5 every game since the middle of the Vancouver game and at least 3 of the top 5 in 1/2 of the other games since then.  All of those games except the 2-3 the Lyubushkin missed have had him playing as a shell of himself.

That's a crazy bad run of injuries not even 10% of the way into the season.

Which has left them with a true 1 most games, a rookie, an injured 4/5, and 3-4 6-9's.  That's a crazy amount of injuries at a single position.

And, for all the hand wringing around here, this team is still at the mythical DeLuca 0.500 even w/ the D injuries.  IF they do fall below 0.500 tomorrow, really doubt that'll be the case for long.

No respect needed - simply don't see a meaningful distinction in the way you are separating the numbers. Top 5 isn't that relevant to me. I think Dahlin is great, Power is really good, Samuelsson I think is pretty good. Byrson maybe next? Lyubushkin, Jokiharju, Clague, Fitzgerald..these are bottom pair players. When the rest of the team, relative to the rest of the league, has been healthy - this is a fact - the team has been healthy relative to most teams.

Claiming that our injuries have been "worse" falls apart for two specific reasons:

1) that's bias - you aren't looking at all the other rosters and weighing how much the losses they've suffered affect them, never mind the fact they have, statistically, more losses than us, on average and 

2)under the prism where we accept it as true,( that ours have been worse, and I don't ) all that seeks to illustrate is that we were in a position to be easily decimated by injuries relative to other teams - it's not an excuse. If we are "decimated" by the loss of 1, solitary player that could be considered solidly top 6, top 4, or starting G, that's a mark against the construction of the team. 

- - - 

Should a team ever be torpedoed from the loss of even it's *best* player? Should they not have more depth than that? Even under the allowance that the loss of a single player can ruin you, how are we going to argue that's Samuelsson? Losing him represents more of a loss than if we lost Thompson for a similar stretch? Or Dahlin? Or Tuch? 

Because, again, it comes to the same thing: if you can't win without one of the players from your group of really good players, you cannot win in this league. There WILL be injuries - this isn't an argument, it's a fact. We've lost one top 6/top4 player, and a *relatively small compared to the rest of the league* compliment of players (this is a fact) in addition to that said player. (reminds me a bit of last year when ppl were saying we lost our "1C" because Mittelstadt was hurt. No. We lost Mittelstadt, not a 1C.)

Not an excuse. There simply isn't anything inordinate about the injuries we've face this season - nothing you can expect/count on being free from, over the duration of an 82 game season. The injuries, league wide thus far, bear that out. 

- - - 

TLDR;

my argument is merely that they are what their record is - they deserve their record. I don't think they've been dealt a bad hand. 

I'm still the guy saying they'll make the playoffs, haven't walked down from that prediction 14 games in yet. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorny]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/injuries

people can just scroll through and see for themselves - please, don't take my word for it 

I mean look at the Flyers, just for one

Almost every team has multiple significant injuries. This is just one of those things we always think we are more hard done by from because of our team glasses. It's just how it goes - we aren't special. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Thorny