Attendance issues at whatever our arena is named now

[postseasonblues]

Maybe RJ can unretire and then re-retire.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They lose 5 in a row, 3 straight at home, the GM sits in his hands watching the team circle the drain and people are wondering why no one is going to games?  

Rinse, wash, repeat.  

“Another fun game” 

Haha

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

Nobody is going?  The last 2 games had very close to a full barn.

Attendance is still worse than a normal year but not nearly as significantly as last year except for 2 games so far.  But between '79 & '06, attendance was always worse in the fall than after the calendar flip.  Attendance will pick up late January/ February and will be better next year.

You realize that the Sabres are last in the NHL in attendance at 70.6% of capacity through 9 home games.  We are averaging 13458 per game which is 3rd worst by actual people.  Only NJ (12950) and AZ (4600) are worse.  AZ doesn't even play in a real NHL arena.   

https://www.hockey-reference.com/friv/attendance.cgi

Poor attendance will continue until the people of Buffalo and WNY actually have a product worth supporting.

[Taro T]

41 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You realize that the Sabres are last in the NHL in attendance at 70.6% of capacity through 9 home games.  We are averaging 13458 per game which is 3rd worst by actual people.  Only NJ (12950) and AZ (4600) are worse.  AZ doesn't even play in a real NHL arena.   

https://www.hockey-reference.com/friv/attendance.cgi

Poor attendance will continue until the people of Buffalo and WNY actually have a product worth supporting.

So, over 13,000 people is "no one."  Riiiiiggght.  <_<  (Sorry, the emojis pull down stopped working on this tablet a week or 2 ago.)

Attendance is significantly better than last season.  There were no games anywhere close to the attendance they've had the last 2 games in the 1st 1/2 of the year last year.  (Edit: the Loafs game might've been up there, but that's the only one even remotely close.)

Attendance stunk coming out of THE lockout.  By the end of the year the barn was sold out nightly & there was a waiting list for tix by the time that year was over.  Attendance will pick up as the season wears on & next year's attendance will be better than this year's attendance.  They're playing entertaining games and will be back to winning as early as Tuesday.

And there was no way attendance was going to be significantly better than it is at this point in this year even if they'd brought in Trotz and paid for FAs up to the cap.  They're on the upswing.  

Demand for seats is up significantly.  This no one will continue going to games.  Last year, literally couldn't even give away tix to 2 games and overall ended up subsidizing people going to the games we couldn't attend.  This year know that every game the seats will be used & there will have to be a severe downturn in the economy to end up subsidizing other people's hockey fixes.  Is it perfect?  No.  But it's way better than "no one" attending.  And it is getting better.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Taro T

[Gatorman0519]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You realize that the Sabres are last in the NHL in attendance at 70.6% of capacity through 9 home games.  We are averaging 13458 per game which is 3rd worst by actual people.  Only NJ (12950) and AZ (4600) are worse.  AZ doesn't even play in a real NHL arena.   

https://www.hockey-reference.com/friv/attendance.cgi

Poor attendance will continue until the people of Buffalo and WNY actually have a product worth supporting.

One thing about Buffalo fans is they are smart and can sense winners from losers. They are not, en masse, buying into this team. 

[LabattBlue]

The Sabres are roughly $20 mil under the cap.  Attendance is poor.  Spend more(on players) to make more(wins = higher attendance).  Clearly there is a line drawn in the sand as to how much KA can spend.  The days of "If I need more money, I will drill another well" are over.

So where do they go from here?

Edited November 16, 2022 by LabattBlue

[Pimlach]

Paid attendance figures are much higher than who actually shows up.

I went to the Florida Saturday matinee game.  They sold over 11,000 seats but had maybe 8,000 show up.  I was expecting to see a lot of young hockey fans and I was wrong.  It wasn't even a kids day matinee, so why bother having the game in the middle of day on a Saturday when people were out enjoying the last good weather of the Fall season.   

Tone deaf marketing, or maybe no marketing at all.  

[LabattBlue]

Just now, Pimlach said:

Tone deaf marketing, or maybe no marketing at all.  

Yes!

[PASabreFan]

Someone help Taro look at the pic from the suite. Old folks aren't always good at viewing them.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

The Sabres are roughly $20 mil under the cap.  Attendance is poor.  Spend more(on players) to make more(wins = higher attendance).  Clearly there is a line drawn in the sand as to how much KA can spend.  The days of "If I need more money, I will drill another well" are over.

So where do they go from here?

The drill another well was a comment from the last regime. No matter how many wells Pegula drills he can't spend over the cap.  As far as running the team up to the cap, that would be done either by signing your skilled drafted players to the contracts they deserve or also largely overspending on free agents which often does not work out well for a long term plan.

I think clearly there is not a line in the sand, but I am sure there is a directive to BUILD a team versus BUY a team.

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Paid attendance figures are much higher than who actually shows up.

I went to the Florida Saturday matinee game.  They sold over 11,000 seats but had maybe 8,000 show up.  I was expecting to see a lot of young hockey fans and I was wrong.  It wasn't even a kids day matinee, so why bother having the game in the middle of day on a Saturday when people were out enjoying the last good weather of the Fall season.   

Tone deaf marketing, or maybe no marketing at all.  

You know the games are scheduled without any knowledge of what the weather will be like that day right?  I'm not sure how marketing plays into it. Are you saying they should not schedule midday games on Saturdays in the Fall?

The season ticket base is estimated at 8,000 this season.  Not known yet, but this article said the Sabres claimed a 20% growth over last season when it was 6,500 (https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/with-multiple-season-ticket-plans-sabres-feel-they-can-make-a-solid-jump-at-the/article_72732632-29ea-11ed-8ce3-0bd553425e2e.html)

Attendance is tickets sold, not arses that walked through the metal detectors. If the STH count is 8k then the count starts at 8k every night... naturally actual attendance will be less as there will be a contingent of people who would rather enjoy the nice weather versus go to a hockey game (and could not sell/give the ticket to someone who could).

 

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, LTS said:

The drill another well was a comment from the last regime. No matter how many wells Pegula drills he can't spend over the cap.  As far as running the team up to the cap, that would be done either by signing your skilled drafted players to the contracts they deserve or also largely overspending on free agents which often does not work out well for a long term plan.

 

 

Last regime?  Last time I looked, they have the same owner who made the comment. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm actually surprised that actual attendance is as high as it is.

[LabattBlue]

7 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I'm actually surprised that actual attendance is as high as it is.

They don't publish actual attendance.  Just tix sold.

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, LTS said:

The drill another well was a comment from the last regime. No matter how many wells Pegula drills he can't spend over the cap.  As far as running the team up to the cap, that would be done either by signing your skilled drafted players to the contracts they deserve or also largely overspending on free agents which often does not work out well for a long term plan.

I think clearly there is not a line in the sand, but I am sure there is a directive to BUILD a team versus BUY a team.

You know the games are scheduled without any knowledge of what the weather will be like that day right?  I'm not sure how marketing plays into it. Are you saying they should not schedule midday games on Saturdays in the Fall?

The season ticket base is estimated at 8,000 this season.  Not known yet, but this article said the Sabres claimed a 20% growth over last season when it was 6,500 (https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/with-multiple-season-ticket-plans-sabres-feel-they-can-make-a-solid-jump-at-the/article_72732632-29ea-11ed-8ce3-0bd553425e2e.html)

Attendance is tickets sold, not arses that walked through the metal detectors. If the STH count is 8k then the count starts at 8k every night... naturally actual attendance will be less as there will be a contingent of people who would rather enjoy the nice weather versus go to a hockey game (and could not sell/give the ticket to someone who could).

 

There likely are 8,000 STHers, but expect that includes 1/2 season packages too.  (Doubt they count 1/4 season packages & definitely don't count mini-pack holders as 5-9 games don't come close to holding seasons.)

So, there's probably 6,500-7,000 full STHers (maybe only 6k which implies Canadians didn't come back nearly as fully as expected) & then a lot more tix (1-4k more) are only sold in packages for certain seats.  Which is how they can end up w/ ~5k people in the building for Detroit or AZ.  Only 7k seats at most sold in total & really only 4k of those holding those seats actually want to be there.  With a handful of single tix sales at box office prices.  So, either the STHers sell their tix at a loss (ended up doing that for the Yotes game), show up to a game they weren't real excited to go to, or give the tix away (not always an option even w/ good seats), or just let the seats go to waste.  (Did that last one twice last year.)

Interestingly, it seems more seats are typically sold in 105 than in 117.  Not sure if that's just random chance or people wanting to have a better chance of being on TV, the Sabres pushing it, people selecting seats at the bottom of the map rather than the top, or something else.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

You know the games are scheduled without any knowledge of what the weather will be like that day right?  I'm not sure how marketing plays into it. Are you saying they should not schedule midday games on Saturdays in the Fall?

The season ticket base is estimated at 8,000 this season.  Not known yet, but this article said the Sabres claimed a 20% growth over last season when it was 6,500 (https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/with-multiple-season-ticket-plans-sabres-feel-they-can-make-a-solid-jump-at-the/article_72732632-29ea-11ed-8ce3-0bd553425e2e.html)

Attendance is tickets sold, not arses that walked through the metal detectors. If the STH count is 8k then the count starts at 8k every night... naturally actual attendance will be less as there will be a contingent of people who would rather enjoy the nice weather versus go to a hockey game (and could not sell/give the ticket to someone who could).

 

No on the bolded. You not tracking me at all.  Of course the schedule is independent of weather.  My thought is make all Saturday matinees “kids day” with special pricing, giveaways, and special events.  Grow fans. 
 

The rest of your tome is about counting tickets.  I am pointing out that the people in attendance is typically much less than actual seats sold.  Thus is a problem.  
 

Paying for a seat and not using it, or being able to re-sell the ticket, or even give it away -  these are problems.   These are list opportunities at best, snd detachment of the potential fan base more importantly.   

[HumanSlinky39]

This six seven game slide will certainly rally the fanbase.

[Contempt]

When my subsidized trip to WNY got cancelled I considered coming up on my own dime over Christmas break to catch the Red Wings game. I'm no longer considering that. I know I'm one guy who lives 300+ miles away but I can't be the only person making future decisions like that right now.

[Gatorman0519]

By post Christmas Arizona will be outselling us with an only 5000 seat arena.  And that is no exaggeration. 

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

By post Christmas Arizona will be outselling us with an only 5000 seat arena.  And that is no exaggeration. 

Actually, it is an exaggeration.  The Sabres have already sold more than 5,000 seats to every home game this season.  The Yotes can't say the same.

[Gatorman0519]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Actually, it is an exaggeration.  The Sabres have already sold more than 5,000 seats to every home game this season.  The Yotes can't say the same.

I said it in a future tense if this continues. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

By post Christmas Arizona will be outselling us with an only 5000 seat arena.  And that is no exaggeration. 

I think the way things are going this is highly possible now. 

There was a glimmer of interest after the run of wins and competitive games but I think the lack of entertainment has returned and the people will give up and splurge on fresh lettuce instead. Better value 🙂

 

[PASabreFan]

What does the league think of all this?

Worried or excited?

[Contempt]

I have a thought about secondary market ticket prices staying where they are despite the losing. 

There are only 8k sth. I assume that includes full and halves.  Since the Sabres don't seem to be keen on cutting deals to sell tickets that makes the secondary market the only place to get something at below sticker price. With that few STH there will be relatively few secondary tickets available for any particular game. Since I also imagine STH have mostly good seats, those will get bought by fans of the opposition a lot of the time who generally are more willing to pay a higher price in general which supports a higher price floor than you'd expect for a team as bad as this one. If there were more STH the secondary prices would be lower.

Am I wrong?

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I said it in a future tense if this continues. 

You said after Christmas.

It appears the Yotes games are sold out this year.  They are capped at 5,000 seats.  So, they aren't selling any more tix after this Christmas.  The Sabres have sold at least somewhere north of 6,500 seats to every game this season.  They will sell more after Christmas (not necessarily many, but at least some) as they have available ticket inventory.  So, the Sabres will sell more than the Yotes after Christmas.

 

You going for some other time frame in the next 3 years while the Yotes are still the 2ndary tenants on a college campus?  The result will be the same.

[SabresVet]

Sabres' attendance is up 32% in the first 10 games this season compared to 2021-22.  

In the first 10 games last season, attendance averaged 7,910 compared to 13,225 this year or a 67% increase. 

Certainly this could decline if the losing continues, but the idea that attendance is down is flat out wrong.