Tage Thompson- Champion of Justice, Doer of Good, Enemy of Evil, Nurturer of Sick Puppies

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Calling @Doohickie.  Come on man, I know you’ve got it bookmarked.

I made my prediction (which I didn't really believe myself at the time) after the move to center.  When we got him?  Ugh.

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, Zamboni said:

I have been hoping for the same sentiment about Harrington… But that’s not happening anytime soon unfortunately.

Lol

score 

[Taro T]

18 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Remember when we'd be yelling at him during games about trying to stickhandle and toe drag around opposing players?  I guess we were wrong.

The amazing thing is, in that 1st Sabres training camp for a 3v3 between the blue lines drill, he was using that exact toe drag stick handle to simply destroy the drill.   His hands were amazing that day.  Then he tried using it in games for 3 years and had it work, what, twice in all that time.

He gets moved back to C and suddenly rather than making himself look stupid he's making some really good players look like they have hockey IQs in the low 60s.  Who besides Granato realized he needed to be able to fully extend to the right along w/ the left for that to work?  Literally, even Thompson didn't see himself as a C in '21.

He seems like a good guy.  Really glad that Granato kept believing in him.  After he tore his shoulder apart was certain he didn't understand the game well enough to succeed at this level.  Yeah, sure, he'd be a 4th liner for a couple more years or, considering the lack of talent in Buffalo, a 3rd liner for a while, but completely did not expect him to become a legit 1C.  (Even should he regress, didn't see 2C in his future either.)  Like many of the other Sabres, he's fun to watch.

[Sidc3000]

I understand the development of the young players but If it wasn’t for Tage in beast mode, i would confidently say that the Sabres would be firmly in last place. 

[Pimlach]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:56 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

He's looked awful so far.

In his younger years when a lot of people were down on him, I still saw some potential there. He'd show glimpses of his talent, but hadn't quite put it all together... Like he had Bambi legs.

Now, other than his one goal, I see nothing. He's only had 2 or 3 times this year (other than PP) where I can recall where he's got his shot off... which is his best weapon.  Last year you'd see 2 or 3 of those a game. Battle wise, he looks weak.

What gives? 

This did not age well.  

[JoeSchmoe]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

This did not age well.  

On 10/31/2022 at 8:47 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

So how's this take looking less than a week later? 🥸

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is TnT now as good as Eichel?  Is he a better goal scorer? 

[Zamboni]

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is TnT now as good as Eichel?  Is he a better goal scorer? 

Offensively I think they are pretty neck and neck tbh. Jack is having a killer defensive season so we’ll see if Tage rounds out his game to that level in coming seasons. Maybe that comes with an improved roster around him like we are seeing with Jack in Vegas. 
 

Imo Jack has never been an exceptional goal scorer, I remember the days of pointing this out ad nauseam on this board: his shot is technically superb but not the most accurate by any margin. As I used to always say: Jack’s true speciality is in playmaking - always has been always will be. Elite passer of the puck. 
 

Tage gets the easy nod for goal scoring and Jack the easy nod for distribution. Either can be the perfect C compliment on a top line, but both probably need a different set of wingers given their games. Though Skinner seems to work with both 

[LGR4GM]

 

[Curt]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Look at Vilardi’s #s.  How does that math work out?

[Brawndo]

 

[Doohickie]

14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Darn you to heck, @Brawndo I just came here to post that.  On the other hand, for those who've been following Tage the last season or so, there isn't too much in there we didn't already know.  It is nice, though, that the word is getting out on Tage.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:56 PM, Thorny said:

Offensively I think they are pretty neck and neck tbh. Jack is having a killer defensive season so we’ll see if Tage rounds out his game to that level in coming seasons. Maybe that comes with an improved roster around him like we are seeing with Jack in Vegas. 
 

Imo Jack has never been an exceptional goal scorer, I remember the days of pointing this out ad nauseam on this board: his shot is technically superb but not the most accurate by any margin. As I used to always say: Jack’s true speciality is in playmaking - always has been always will be. Elite passer of the puck. 
 

Tage gets the easy nod for goal scoring and Jack the easy nod for distribution. Either can be the perfect C compliment on a top line, but both probably need a different set of wingers given their games. Though Skinner seems to work with both 

Other than Zamboni’s laughing at the idea, I’m surprised more people haven’t chimed in on Tage vs Jack.  

Tage’s ascension to the upper echelon of NHL players is remarkable.  I agree with you on Tage being the better goal scorer and Jack being better passer and 2 way player at this point, but even the playmaking gap is closing.  For Tage to be in the same ballpark as the one time savior is also remarkable.  Who would have thought two years ago that this was even possible.  

So far ytd.  
Jack 24gp  11g 15a 26 pts

Tage 22 gp 14g 14a 28 pts

Add in the smaller long term contract $ for Tage and that he is a year younger, I’d argue that right now Tage is arguably the more valuable player.  

Seriously would you trade Jack for Tage straight up? I wouldn’t.

 

[K-9]

I think it’s worth noting that Tage is compiling better numbers in less games than Eichel while playing on a team not as talented or deep as Vegas. 

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Other than Zamboni’s laughing at the idea, I’m surprised more people haven’t chimed in on Tage vs Jack.  

Tage’s ascension to the upper echelon of NHL players is remarkable.  I agree with you on Tage being the better goal scorer and Jack being better passer and 2 way player at this point, but even the playmaking gap is closing.  For Tage to be in the same ballpark as the one time savior is also remarkable.  Who would have thought two years ago that this was even possible.  

So far ytd.  
Jack 24gp  11g 15a 26 pts

Tage 22 gp 14g 14a 28 pts

Add in the smaller long term contract $ for Tage and that he is a year younger, I’d argue that right now Tage is arguably the more valuable player.  

Seriously would you trade Jack for Tage straight up? I wouldn’t.

 

Yes I definitely would. 1 year of age gap doesn’t make a difference, and the contract doesn’t offset how much better Jack is two-way right now. I also don’t think Tage matches Jack’s point total this year, when all is said and done. Of course, this is all disregarding team fit and just looking at things in a vacuum. 

I don’t really agree with the idea of placing very much weight on contract when determining value, re: straight up player comparisons. There’s a reason contracts don’t factor into the Hart trophy voting: ie most VALUABLE player. It’s never weighted vs contract - salary is a team issue and players getting paid more don’t need to do more to earn an MVP than a player earning less: that wouldn’t make sense. Scheifele at 6 mil would have been in the mvp consideration for years if that was the case 

Still, Tage is still seemingly improving (though, apparently Jack is, too) so that book isn’t closed. This can be revisited. The fact it can even be discussed is pretty cool on it’s own. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

I think it’s worth noting that Tage is compiling better numbers in less games than Eichel while playing on a team not as talented or deep as Vegas. 

Better offensive numbers, slightly: but even here, Tage’s current per-game pace doesn’t scratch the surface of the marks Jack put up in per-game numbers at this point in a couple of his Sabres seasons. During the year he finished top 10 in mvp voting, Jack was pacing for 130 I believe at one point. Will have to see how Tage ends up 

Like I say, playing the pace game is dangerous. But, from a straight up, purely offensive production standpoint this season, it’s pretty close, with Tage so far actually being ahead, to your point 

- - - 

Basically, while you and GA are acknowledging the 2-way game thing, it’s not just something that is mentioned then quickly bypassed, because we want to, in favour of the guy who’s a Sabre just b/c he’s a year younger: it’s a substantial consideration and it’s why, until further notice, it’s Eichel being listed by all the analysts and “early voting” as in the top 10 for both Hart AND *Selke* right now, and not yet Tage. It’s not *me* ranking JE above him on these lists, either, obviously.

Tage can round that out, not saying he can’t, but, assuming they stay pretty equal offensively, until he does that Eichel is the better overall player. I suppose Tage could blow by him offensively to make up the gap, too, but I dunno how likely that is 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thorny

[Curt]

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Yes I definitely would. 1 year of age gap doesn’t make a difference, and the contract doesn’t offset how much better Jack is two-way right now. I also don’t think Tage matches Jack’s point total this year, when all is said and done. Of course, this is all disregarding team fit and just looking at things in a vacuum. 

I don’t really agree with the idea of placing very much weight on contract when determining value, re: straight up player comparisons. There’s a reason contracts don’t factor into the Hart trophy voting: ie most VALUABLE player. It’s never weighted vs contract - salary is a team issue and players getting paid more don’t need to do more to earn an MVP than a player earning less: that wouldn’t make sense. Scheifele at 6 mil would have been in the mvp consideration for years if that was the case 

Still, Tage is still seemingly improving (though, apparently Jack is, too) so that book isn’t closed. This can be revisited. The fact it can even be discussed is pretty cool on it’s own. 

Is Eichel really a much better defensive player?  I’m very skeptical.

[K-9]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Better offensive numbers, slightly: but even here, Tage’s current per-game pace doesn’t scratch the surface of the marks Jack put up in per-game numbers at this point in a couple of his Sabres seasons. During the year he finished top 10 in mvp voting, Jack was pacing for 130 I believe at one point. Will have to see how Tage ends up 

Like I say, playing the pace game is dangerous. But, from a straight up, purely offensive production standpoint this season, it’s pretty close, with Tage so far actually being ahead, to your point 

- - - 

Basically, while you and GA are acknowledging the 2-way game thing, it’s not just something that is mentioned then quickly bypassed, because we want to, in favour of the guy who’s a Sabre just b/c he’s a year younger: it’s a substantial consideration and it’s why, until further notice, it’s Eichel being listed by all the analysts and “early voting” as in the top 10 for both Hart AND *Selke* right now, and not yet Tage. It’s not *me* ranking JE above him on these lists, either, obviously.

Tage can round that out, not saying he can’t, but, assuming they stay pretty equal offensively, until he does that Eichel is the better overall player. I suppose Tage could blow by him offensively to make up the gap, too, but I dunno how likely that is 

Would Tage be better served by a supporting cast like Vegas offers?

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

Is Eichel really a much better defensive player?  I’m very skeptical.

I mean...

58 minutes ago, Thorny said:

it’s Eichel being listed by all the analysts and “early voting” as in the top 10 for both Hart AND *Selke* right now, and not yet Tage. It’s not *me* ranking JE above him on these lists, either, obviously.

It’s what people in the know are saying. Those that know way more than me. I believe his coaches are also waxing poetic about his defensive aptitude this season.
 

People forget 19-20 around these parts, I will say that. I suppose the lasting perception of it was so thoroughly eclipsed by what came after for Jack it makes total sense. But that was the year we were all collectively marveling in the GDTs about how much better Jack’s two way game had become, and how much more leader-like he sounded in interviews. At the time, this wasn’t surprising to people, because we used to understand that players Jack’s age DO tend to improve their all around game at such the young age he was still at. 
 

People don’t really want to talk about that now, and I get it. But he finished 8th in mvp voting that year: his D *was* way better. And it’s appeared to take another gigantic step. Unless you think everyone is just lying because they hate buffalo, and really only buffalo fans *know*. 
 

We Sabres fans tend to view Jack, now, as the sum totality of all he was as a Sabre: and that’s fine. But it’s no good to deny the fact of the perspective under which we viewed him before: a player that was still improving and developing. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Would Tage be better served by a supporting cast like Vegas offers?

You did in fact “like“ the post I made acknowledging exactly this: 

On 11/28/2022 at 7:56 PM, Thorny said:

Offensively I think they are pretty neck and neck tbh. Jack is having a killer defensive season so we’ll see if Tage rounds out his game to that level in coming seasons. Maybe that comes with an improved roster around him like we are seeing with Jack in Vegas. 

 

[Weave]

Thorny, you don’t have a shrine in a back room, do you?

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I mean...

It’s what people in the know are saying. Those that know way more than me. I believe his coaches are also waxing poetic about his defensive aptitude this season.
 

People forget 19-20 around these parts, I will say that. I suppose the lasting perception of it was so thoroughly eclipsed by what came after for Jack it makes total sense. But that was the year we were all collectively marveling in the GDTs about how much better Jack’s two way game had become, and how much more leader-like he sounded in interviews. At the time, this wasn’t surprising to people, because we used to understand that players Jack’s age DO tend to improve their all around game at such the young age he was still at. 
 

People don’t really want to talk about that now, and I get it. But he finished 8th in mvp voting that year: his D *was* way better. And it’s appeared to take another gigantic step. Unless you think everyone is just lying because they hate buffalo, and really only buffalo fans *know*. 
 

We Sabres fans tend to view Jack, now, as the sum totality of all he was as a Sabre: and that’s fine. But it’s no good to deny the fact of the perspective under which we viewed him before: a player that was still improving and developing. 

Who are these people in the know who are pumping up Eichel’s defensive contributions?

I saw one tweet of a fan survey or something that had Eichel as a top-10 Selke guy.  Is there more than that?

I don’t really count his coaches, as they are not exactly unbiased.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

You did in fact “like“ the post I made acknowledging exactly this: 

 

That was two whole days ago for crissakes. Glad you agree that Tage would be even better with the same kind of supporting cast that Eichel has. 

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

Who are these people in the know who are pumping up Eichel’s defensive contributions?

I saw one tweet of a fan survey or something that had Eichel as a top-10 Selke guy.  Is there more than that?

I don’t really count his coaches, as they are not exactly unbiased.

That was just the one I posted 😂

There is a ton of data out there, plenty of analysts takes up, even on NHL.com, right now, paid analysts, that are placing Jack on these lists. Go look at his advanced metrics in 19-20. Hell, even peep the GDTs. 

Please, I cannot stress this enough: don’t take my word for it. 

But, with all due respect - and this isn’t directed specifically at you - I’m not that interested in doing the work for people, anymore. It’s not that interesting to me anymore- this particular conversion sort of rose up organically so that’s good fun, but.. I want to tap out of it, now, if that’s fair. I’ve tried before to link bits in the GDTs* from that year, for one example, clips of Eichel being a great leader towards Dahlin..people aren’t really interested in it. It doesn’t gain traction. Don’t blame ‘em. 
 

*part of why the even further improvement to his D game this year doesn’t surprise me is because I remember, and am not afraid to acknowledge, that *WE* were all saying the same things, in 19-20. 

But there’s no point in me waging this war if even the clearest bits of info are met with skepticism. Eichel is having a great season - he’s having a great season defensively: the numbers and metrics are in fact out there, and do in fact speak for themselves: anyone that doesn’t want to hear them, doesn’t believe them, or has a healthy degree of skepticism in them, ain’t going to be convinced by me, anyways.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thorny