GDT:Sabres at Vancouver 10/22/22 10pm MSG, CBC, WGR 550

[DHawerchuk10]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That's the most effective we've seen olofsson all year. We need the player more. 

***** Ralph Krueger. Rasmus Dahlin is a vibe right now and man oh man is he electric. 

I never would have thought a coach could screw up somebody so bad, yet here we are.  Dahlin looks vastly different from the beginning of last year, and gets better with every game.  The guy just has a superstar presence now.  

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, DHawerchuk10 said:

I never would have thought a coach could screw up somebody so bad, yet here we are.  Dahlin looks vastly different from the beginning of last year, and gets better with every game.  The guy just has a superstar presence now.  

An interesting bar room discussion can be had over who is more happy about the firing of Krueger: Dahlin or Skinner? 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

43 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

In order to legally hit a member of the other team it is necessary that the player has the puck. The Sabres are winning, not because they are out hitting the other team or doing anything else but for the sole reason that they are out scoring them. 

You said "member"

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

You said "member"

"Hehehe, uhhhh you wanna hit my member?"

Edited October 23, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Broken Ankles]

17 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

In order to legally hit a member of the other team it is necessary that the player has the puck. The Sabres are winning, not because they are out hitting the other team or doing anything else but for the sole reason that they are out scoring them. 

   In other news, water is wet.  Obviously outscoring is required to win.  The point made is forecheck, backcheck, and boosh-check can have a positive effect in contributing to turnovers. Guys like Dahlin, Cozens, and Mitts are showing significant improvement in the defensive zone YoY.  By taking a body and separating man from puck, they improve their oppounity to suppress shots and increase turnovers.  The Sabres have more physical (and obviously more talented) players like Tuch, JJP, Boosh, Mule, and Power replacing guys like Eakin, Bjork, Pysyk, Hagg and Miller.  Their size, reach, strength  are all contributing to solid play in the defensive zone.  Evidence by reduced high danger chances and overall scoring chances against YoY.   And I would wager if you threw out the third period in EDM and period two last night they tell an even better story.  Why can’t you admit that improved offensive skill, slightly better goaltending and size/strength and a more aggressive tone on D can all play a factor to helping the team “out score” their opponents? 

[grinreaper]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

"Hehehe, uhhhh you wanna hit my member?"

Derek Roy says "sure". 

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

   In other news, water is wet.  Obviously outscoring is required to win.  The point made is forecheck, backcheck, and boosh-check can have a positive effect in contributing to turnovers. Guys like Dahlin, Cozens, and Mitts are showing significant improvement in the defensive zone YoY.  By taking a body and separating man from puck, they improve their oppounity to suppress shots and increase turnovers.  The Sabres have more physical (and obviously more talented) players like Tuch, JJP, Boosh, Mule, and Power replacing guys like Eakin, Bjork, Pysyk, Hagg and Miller.  Their size, reach, strength  are all contributing to solid play in the defensive zone.  Evidence by reduced high danger chances and overall scoring chances against YoY.   And I would wager if you threw out the third period in EDM and period two last night they tell an even better story.  Why can’t you admit that improved offensive skill, slightly better goaltending and size/strength and a more aggressive tone on D can all play a factor to helping the team “out score” their opponents? 

Water is most certainly not wet.

[grinreaper]

6 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

   In other news, water is wet.  Obviously outscoring is required to win.  The point made is forecheck, backcheck, and boosh-check can have a positive effect in contributing to turnovers. Guys like Dahlin, Cozens, and Mitts are showing significant improvement in the defensive zone YoY.  By taking a body and separating man from puck, they improve their oppounity to suppress shots and increase turnovers.  The Sabres have more physical (and obviously more talented) players like Tuch, JJP, Boosh, Mule, and Power replacing guys like Eakin, Bjork, Pysyk, Hagg and Miller.  Their size, reach, strength  are all contributing to solid play in the defensive zone.  Evidence by reduced high danger chances and overall scoring chances against YoY.   And I would wager if you threw out the third period in EDM and period two last night they tell an even better story.  Why can’t you admit that improved offensive skill, slightly better goaltending and size/strength and a more aggressive tone on D can all play a factor to helping the team “out score” their opponents? 

Easy fella. Not only have you moved the goalposts but you've widened them. I could just as easily state that the one game this year that we basically tied our opponent in hits that we lost. The Sabres seem to have been taking the puck away from their opponents on a regular basis without having to expend the energy to crush them physically with hits. They've been wearing them out by making the other team chase them. 

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Bryson/Fitz kept getting hemmed.

Bryson/Fitz have no business being on a pairing together.  They are both good complementary defensemen.  But to be effective they need to be paired with a lead defenseman (not sure what the term is, but if it were forward you would say they need to be on a line with someone who drives play).

[triumph_communes]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

An interesting bar room discussion can be had over who is more happy about the firing of Krueger: Dahlin or Skinner? 

Skinner was already paid. Dahlin is now gonna get paid. 

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, SwampD said:

Good god the Canucks look awful. They use sooo much energy to accomplish nothing. Maybe it’s chemistry,… or maybe it’s time for a new coach.

They look like the Krueger Sabres.  Which is really bad.

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

I don’t like that we take a lot more hits than our opponents. Out hit every game: 

18-9; 12-11; 28-16; 29-11; 40-17 

On the other hand, the hit stat involves a change of possession.  Maybe they're getting out hit because they're doing better with possessing the puck.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Bryson/Fitz have no business being on a pairing together.  They are both good complementary defensemen.  But to be effective they need to be paired with a lead defenseman (not sure what the term is, but if it were forward you would say they need to be on a line with someone who drives play).

They don't & they do.

Neither belongs in the top 4 & if you can generally shelter them from the other team's top 2 lines they'll be fine on the 3rd pairing.  And it's better to have them there than playing against stiffer competition; especially if you can primarily keep the Okposo line on the ice with them.

If you can't shelter their usage, you have to look at playing one of them higher up and hope that by keeping his shifts short he doesn't kill you.

But that's the same dilemma nearly every team has and MOST of them choose to keep the scrubs out together but in sheltered usage rather than messing up their top 4.

There's a reason that neither saw the ice the 1st 5 or so minutes last night while Vancouver was pressing hard to start.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, DHawerchuk10 said:

I never would have thought a coach could screw up somebody so bad, yet here we are.  Dahlin looks vastly different from the beginning of last year, and gets better with every game.  The guy just has a superstar presence now.  

To me, the most egregious indictment of Krueger was when DG took over after 13 consecutive losses (iirc) and said it would still be a couple weeks before we see some kind of improvement because the guys weren’t in shape to play hockey and conditioning was the most important thing to focus on. Weren’t. In. Shape. 

I’m embarrassed to say I ever bought into one second of RK’s bs.

[Doohickie]

We've seen Bryson and Dahlin as a pair; Dahlin definitely elevated Bryson's game.  I can accept pairing Bryson and Fitz if you can shelter them but that's not as easy to do on the road.

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

To me, the most egregious indictment of Krueger was when DG took over after 13 consecutive losses (iirc) and said it would still be a couple weeks before we see some kind of improvement because the guys weren’t in shape to play hockey and conditioning was the most important thing to focus on. Weren’t. In. Shape. 

I’m embarrassed to say I ever bought into one second of RK’s bs.

I remember it being 12 losses under Krueger, 6 under Meatballs.

[Flashsabre]

Bryson and Fitz aren’t ideal as a pair but they are far from the worst 3rd pairing in the league.

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Bryson and Fitz aren’t ideal as a pair but they are far from the worst 3rd pairing in the league.

Perhaps.  I'm judging based on a period (of time, not a single period in a game) when they played together last year.  They both have some upside still.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Doohickie

[Broken Ankles]

54 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

Easy fella. Not only have you moved the goalposts but you've widened them. I could just as easily state that the one game this year that we basically tied our opponent in hits that we lost. The Sabres seem to have been taking the puck away from their opponents on a regular basis without having to expend the energy to crush them physically with hits. They've been wearing them out by making the other team chase them. 

Not moving or widening goalposts or attempting to correlate hits to wins.  In fact after watching Calgary, I can see diminished returns from too many attempted hits.  Just giving my observation which is the increased number of registered hits, and the subsequent suppression of shots and high danger opportunities is one contributing factor to improved play over last years team.  To the bold, sometimes.  And other times, one hit ends possession.  That is a good thing, and I would debate happened less frequently with last years starting line up.  

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

We've seen Bryson and Dahlin as a pair; Dahlin definitely elevated Bryson's game.  I can accept pairing Bryson and Fitz if you can shelter them but that's not as easy to do on the road.

I remember it being 12 losses under Krueger, 6 under Meatballs.

And it started right when Ullmark got injured and ended in his 3rd game back.  His 1st game back they got a lead & then did their typical blowing of it in the 3rd.  Their next game they got to OT before losing and then they finally killed Filly the next game.

They went 4-3-3 in that stretch w/ Linus getting all the wins (4-2-1) until he broke again.  They ended the year 4-9-0 after Ullmark went out.  They lost in OT the game he went out in the 1st.  Be it conditioning, still playing Kreuger's system in large part, or whatever, the item that correlated w/ improved play that year was Ullmark and pretty much only Ullmark.  It was a happier, relieved squad after Granato finally got a W than it had been under Kreuger, but by W's & L's it wasn't any better.

[DarthEbriate]

The other thing about Hits as a stat are the subjectivity of it. There are some venues who call anything a hit. The Canucks were credited with 40 hits last night. Sure, they had a line that went out and made some contact. But 40 hits? They credited Joshua and Burroughs hits just for jumping over the boards.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Skinner was already paid. Dahlin is now gonna get paid. 

Skinner was a $9 M a year player. Under Krueger he became a replaceable $300,000 JAG. Under Granato, Skinner was revitalized and became a $7M first line player who regained his goal scoring touch. I can't think of one player who was better under Krueger than under Granato. One unsuccessful coach subordinated the talent of a player in pursuit of his system while the replacing coach took the opposite approach of prioritizing activating the talent of each player that collectively would benefit the team. 

[Flashsabre]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Skinner was a $9 M a year player. Under Krueger he became a replaceable $300,000 JAG. Under Granato, Skinner was revitalized and became a $7M first line player who regained his goal scoring touch. I can't think of one player who was better under Krueger than under Granato. One unsuccessful coach subordinated the talent of a player in pursuit of his system while the replacing coach took the opposite approach of prioritizing activating the talent of each player that collectively would benefit the team. 

I would just love to know what was going through Granato’s mind as he sat on that Krueger coaching staff.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

To me, the most egregious indictment of Krueger was when DG took over after 13 consecutive losses (iirc) and said it would still be a couple weeks before we see some kind of improvement because the guys weren’t in shape to play hockey and conditioning was the most important thing to focus on. Weren’t. In. Shape. 

I’m embarrassed to say I ever bought into one second of RK’s bs.

Don't be embarrassed because you are not alone in being seduced by the word master at the podium. I was also for a spell seduced by his inauthentic act. However, it didn't take long before his act was no longer tolerable to me. Excessive losing wasn't the worst part of his tenure. Because of his inflexible hockey ideology he killed the enjoyment of the game because of his joyless style of play. His brand of hockey was painful to watch. When Granato took over, even when his team struggled to win, the liberated style of play was so much more entertaining to watch. Of course, all of us are happy that the Sabres are winning. But even if the team was winning at a lower rate, no one can deny that the Sabres are entertaining to watch. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I would just love to know what was going through Granato’s mind as he sat on that Krueger coaching staff.

It had to be an excruciating experience for him. My understanding is that Krueger didn't tolerate dissent from his staff. So, it's likely that Granato kept his views to himself. As soon as he took over, he undid everything that Krueger did, including how he conducted practices. Another interesting bar room question is how much further along would this franchise be if Granato was hired instead of Krueger? 

I've said this before so I apologize for the repetition: Kevin Adams has made a lot of good decisions in his relatively short stint. The most consequential is elevating Granato to replace Krueger, and then making him the head coach.