Buffalo Bills 2022-23

[Indabuff]

I wonder what Jerry Jones would do...

Edited January 23, 2023 by Indabuff
Just a hypothetical

[Brawndo]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

And that 1st Cowboy game in large part came down to their cleats.

They didn't expect it to have been raining the better part of the week in Pasadena.  The NFL literally had helicopters hovering over the field the day before the Superbowl trying to dry it out.  The Pokes were prepared for it, the Bills not so much.

The 1st INT happened because Metzalars fell down making a cut while the ball was in the air.

Worst football game I was ever in attendance for 

[inkman]

10 minutes ago, shrader said:

They were supposed to be this generation’s Brady and Manning. Josh may wind up being Phillip Rivers. 

I’ve been giving this some thought.  It was never going to be easy for Buffalo.  I think Josh’s career will be him chasing Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence & Herbert.  Maybe a couple of other QBs coming into the league the next couple of years.  Maybe the Bills get lucky and grab a chip but I don’t like the odds. 

1 minute ago, Indabuff said:

I wonder what Jerry Jones would do...

That wouldn’t be the standard, for anything ever. 

[JoeSchmoe]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Teams realized they could rush 4 and drop the rest into coverage because the Bills offensive line was *****. On top of that, Dorsey had every route 20yrds down field. So no, I don't agree with what you're saying. 

Time will tell. But we all saw Burrow get the job done when under less than ideal conditions.

Maybe in Allen's case it is the OL, the WR's, and Dorsey. I think it's more plausible that he's not the same QB if he's not running the ball on a consistent basis. 

[Flashsabre]

WR is not this team’s biggest problem.

Brady and Rodgers threw to guys off the street for years.

Championships are always won in the trenches. The Bengals embarrassed the Bills on both sides of the line. Go watch the Chiefs-Ravens game. Mahomes has all day even on one ankle, to make plays.

Find away to improve the OLine. Find a new D Coordinator with a new philosophy to utilize the talent there and find some upgrades if possible. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Worst football game I was ever in attendance for 

Likewise.

Might be the only person in America that didn't see Beebe strip the ball from Lett live.  Just sat down amongst the Cowboy crowd when Lett started heading to the end zone.

Friggin' Pokes fans chanting Three Beat on the way out of the Rose Bowl.  Morons, YOUR team lost 3 of these too; yes, your boys are three beat.

Can't be cheering about THEIR team's win but rather were rubbing our loss in our faces.  Don't want that team to ever win another championship.

[nfreeman]

This will be an interesting offseason.  The Bills are facing a number of important decisions and have a number of important on-field positions that clearly need upgrades:

- Poyer

- Edmunds

- Both coordinators

- WR2

- O-line

The good news is that they are well equipped at the most important positions -- QB, WR1 and HC -- as well as TE, D-line, CB, 1 S and 1 LB. 

This isn't a rebuild.  They just need to take a hard look at themselves and upgrade what wasn't working.  Doing so will likely mean letting go of Poyer and Edmunds, as both will be too expensive to retain, even though they are good players.

[MattPie]

14 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This will be an interesting offseason.  The Bills are facing a number of important decisions and have a number of important on-field positions that clearly need upgrades:

- Poyer

- Edmunds

- Both coordinators

- WR2

- O-line

The good news is that they are well equipped at the most important positions -- QB, WR1 and HC -- as well as TE, D-line, CB, 1 S and 1 LB. 

This isn't a rebuild.  They just need to take a hard look at themselves and upgrade what wasn't working.  Doing so will likely mean letting go of Poyer and Edmunds, as both will be too expensive to retain, even though they are good players.

If I were going to worry, all this "we're a family stuff" will get in the way of finding better players and coaches. I could easily see keeping a rookie OC for another year on the theory that they're learning. I'm not saying be ruthless, but they may not make the hard decisions.

Also if I were going to worry, it sounds like both Knox and Beasley are on the team at least in part because Allen likes them. I hope the staff doesn't weigh that too heavily.

Edited January 23, 2023 by MattPie

[Eleven]

Well, the nice thing is that the Cowboys' absurd final play has most of the country talking about them, not Buffalo.

[PASabreFan]

24 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This will be an interesting offseason.  The Bills are facing a number of important decisions and have a number of important on-field positions that clearly need upgrades:

- Poyer

- Edmunds

- Both coordinators

- WR2

- O-line

The good news is that they are well equipped at the most important positions -- QB, WR1 and HC -- as well as TE, D-line, CB, 1 S and 1 LB. 

This isn't a rebuild.  They just need to take a hard look at themselves and upgrade what wasn't working.  Doing so will likely mean letting go of Poyer and Edmunds, as both will be too expensive to retain, even though they are good players.

Where do you put head coach in this rundown? I've been slow to come around to modern gameday tactics, but at long last I yelled at the TV when he (went for the field goal) edit: punted from the Cincy 41. That was defeatist and had to be demoralizing.

Punting on fourth and two, I still will defend. Logically I'm not so sure I'm right.

Edited January 23, 2023 by PASabreFan

[John Tucker]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

They need to fix the o line. For 3 years now we've heard about the lack of run game and Beane in his infinite wisdom thinks it's a rb problem. The line blocks like trash. We do need another wr, again Beane has failed to get one. 

Idk why they signed Knox. He's mediocre at best. 

Beanes claim to fame is Allen but what about the rest of his drafts? Elim lost an open job to a 6th rounder. Edmunds tackling and instincts are meh. The o line has gotten worse each year. He's drafted what? 4 edge rushers and they all suck. 

This team looked bad all year but found ways to win. Part of the reason is the gm refused to fix obvious issues such as o line and wr. Bringing back Beasley and Brown were panic moves and Josh Allen directed. 

I'm not convinced Beane is a good gm. 

I agree about Beane.  He has had some hits but every year the pundits say our roster is top notch.  But the more you look at it, is it really?  Beane absolutely needs to ace this year's draft.  His draft day selections have generally been really, really bad.  I mean, you miss in the first few round of an NFL draft on a yearly basis and the results will not be good.  I'm actually surprised at how well the team in general has held up.  The first 2 picks in each of the last 4 years...

2022- Elam (like you said, lost his job to a 6th rounder and then benched for a good part of the year)

           Cook (could be productive, but lacks size and is useless in the current offensive scheme and philosophy)

2021- Rousseau (may become a quality pass rusher but disappeared often and was invisible yesterday)

           Basham (had a moment or two this year but mostly a bust)

2020- Epenesa (See Basham... bust)

            Z. Moss (Bust)

2019- E. Oliver (Definitely not lived up to a 9th overall pick.  No pass rush skills and doesn't eat up much space in the run)

           C. Ford (Bust of all busts)

 

Beane will need to win this offseason or we could be in for a rough stretch.  

           

 

[PASabreFan]

I wanted to provide a little different perspective on this season. There's an elderly woman, a retired doctor, where I work. She's the real deal as a Bills fan. She remembers Jack Kemp, for crying out loud.

After the Bills beat the Chiefs, she was in tears. I won't forget that. Nor should anyone forget 14 wins, that kickoff return or the incredible story of Damar Hamlin.

Although we lost this year's quest for a championship, to paraphrase the doc in Cincy, along the way we won the game of life.

The Bills are really good and really relevant and should be in the conversation for the title for quite a few years to come as long as Josh is Josh. They have good coaching, very good management and maybe even a great owner.

I'll paraphrase someone else, with a twist — Bill Polian circa 1994. The current Bills can't hold a candle to the Super Bowl Bills, but as for these seasons in the life of a franchise: we might not see their likes again for a very long time.

Enjoy.

[GoPre]

9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I wanted to provide a little different perspective on this season. There's an elderly woman, a retired doctor, where I work. She's the real deal as a Bills fan. She remembers Jack Kemp, for crying out loud.

After the Bills beat the Chiefs, she was in tears. I won't forget that. Nor should anyone forget 14 wins, that kickoff return or the incredible story of Damar Hamlin.

Although we lost this year's quest for a championship, to paraphrase the doc in Cincy, along the way we won the game of life.

The Bills are really good and really relevant and should be in the conversation for the title for quite a few years to come as long as Josh is Josh. They have good coaching, very good management and maybe even a great owner.

I'll paraphrase someone else, with a twist — Bill Polian circa 1994. The current Bills can't hold a candle to the Super Bowl Bills, but as for these seasons in the life of a franchise: we might not see their likes again for a very long time.

Enjoy.

Thank you 

[Norcal]

58 minutes ago, MattPie said:

If I were going to worry, all this "we're a family stuff" will get in the way of finding better players and coaches. I could easily see keeping a rookie OC for another year on the theory that they're learning. I'm not saying be ruthless, but they may not make the hard decisions.

Also if I were going to worry, it sounds like both Knox and Beasley are on the team at least in part because Allen likes them. I hope the staff doesn't weigh that too heavily.

I can't shake the feeling that McD plays his favorites to a fault. 

 

[JoeSchmoe]

35 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

The Bills are really good and really relevant and should be in the conversation for the title for quite a few years to come as long as Josh is Josh.

Josh being Josh means he's a constant run threat. As per the usual timeline with running QBs, his window is smaller.

[SwampD]

6 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Josh being Josh means he's a constant run threat. As per the usual timeline with running QBs, his window is smaller.

Give him more than just Diggs and see how good he can be.

[tom webster]

13 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Josh being Josh means he's a constant run threat. As per the usual timeline with running QBs, his window is smaller.

I’m not sure there is any data base that proves this statement. I know there is no data base that includes a QB of his size. 
The one data base that does exist? Josh has only been injured while attempting to throw behind the line of scrimmage.

[Thwomp!]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

This will be an interesting offseason.  The Bills are facing a number of important decisions and have a number of important on-field positions that clearly need upgrades:

- Poyer

- Edmunds

- Both coordinators

- WR2

- O-line

The good news is that they are well equipped at the most important positions -- QB, WR1 and HC -- as well as TE, D-line, CB, 1 S and 1 LB. 

This isn't a rebuild.  They just need to take a hard look at themselves and upgrade what wasn't working.  Doing so will likely mean letting go of Poyer and Edmunds, as both will be too expensive to retain, even though they are good players.

Look at the playoff exits under Mc Clappy.  Look at his press conference yesterday.  Think he's gonna fire Dorsey or Frazier?  This is what coach purgatory looks like.

I won't even get started on TE, but that is far from well-equipped, yet highly paid.  D Line was atrocious yesterday, which a 34 year old Von Miller coming off ACL surgery, may or may not be able to help at some point next season.  Tre White is a huge question mark at CB and the rest, absent Taron Johnson, are average at best.  When Poyer goes, the safety position will be barren as well, with a couple huge question marks going forward.

This situation calls for an attempted rebuild-on-the-fly as much as any I've ever seen.  Chiefs do it almost every year, why can't we?  They do have very good coaching which helps.

[SabresBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

WR is not this team’s biggest problem.

Brady and Rodgers threw to guys off the street for years.

Championships are always won in the trenches. The Bengals embarrassed the Bills on both sides of the line. Go watch the Chiefs-Ravens game. Mahomes has all day even on one ankle, to make plays.

Find away to improve the OLine. Find a new D Coordinator with a new philosophy to utilize the talent there and find some upgrades if possible. 

^ This is 100% spot on

[mjd1001]

The OL has been below average for years.

As Great as Allen is, his decision making seemed to get worse as the year went on (taking multiple deep shots when needing 3-6 for a first with an option wide open for 10)

I think they are "OK" at RB, Same with TE.

I'm not 100% done with Gabe Davis as the #2 guy. BUT, looking not as good now as last year, and Diggs, while still great, is 30 now so you have to look for another young gamebreaking star there.

DB's I thought were suspect all year. Tre isn't close to what he was before the injury.  Hyde and Poyer, as much as many like them and they ARE good, are a little less than 'athletic' at this point in the career. Wouldn't be a bad thing to make changes at S with a lot more athleticism in the D-backfield.

LBs good.  DL not awful, but not good. Should be better for the money and the draft picks you put into it.

Coaching? its really hard for me to evaluate on any level. I'm OK with it...maybe the Defensive philosophy couuld be due for a bit of a change. 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by mjd1001

[Taro T]

Stinks that they needed to get through both KC & Cincy to get to the Superbowl and especially that they were unable to get that 1st W for an opportunity for the 2nd.

But this team was LITERALLY within a botched snap in either of TWO games being clean from only having to get by the Jags & then play the winner of a KC-Cincy game to advance to the Superbowl.  And that's w/ all the injuries & off field adversity they dealt with this season.

Get a clean snap at the end of the 1st half in Miami & the Bills kick the FG there & pull that one out.  Get a clean snap on the goal line vs the Vikes & the game is over w/ 1 more clean snap.  Win either of those & even if the league had made them forfeit in Cincy & they're still the #1 seed.  Win them both & they don't even need the tiebreaker to be ahead of KC w/ a loss in Cincy.

For all the handwringing about how horrible they are, they were that close to hosting the AFC Championship game.

[Indabuff]

^^^  this is what I've been thinking about all morning.

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I’m not sure there is any data base that proves this statement. I know there is no data base that includes a QB of his size. 
The one data base that does exist? Josh has only been injured while attempting to throw behind the line of scrimmage.

Though Allen is still better overall, I think Cam Newton exists in this "data base". He's big, and he was a pretty good QB when he was Allen's age.

Allen's arm is good enough that I think he'll still be serviceable once his running game is done... But without improvement, he won't be the same elite QB fans want to think he is.

[Thwomp!]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

They blow games they should never blow every season under this coach.  

Oh by the way, huge Josh Allen fan, but that Vikings fumble was all on him.  They were predictably trying a qb sneak and he was moving before he had the ball because the defense was geared towards it. Because it's predictable.  Because our coaching sucks.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Thwomp!

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Where do you put head coach in this rundown? I've been slow to come around to modern gameday tactics, but at long last I yelled at the TV when he (went for the field goal) edit: punted from the Cincy 41. That was defeatist and had to be demoralizing.

Punting on fourth and two, I still will defend. Logically I'm not so sure I'm right.

Well, maybe I should let you answer your own question:

 

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I wanted to provide a little different perspective on this season. There's an elderly woman, a retired doctor, where I work. She's the real deal as a Bills fan. She remembers Jack Kemp, for crying out loud.

After the Bills beat the Chiefs, she was in tears. I won't forget that. Nor should anyone forget 14 wins, that kickoff return or the incredible story of Damar Hamlin.

Although we lost this year's quest for a championship, to paraphrase the doc in Cincy, along the way we won the game of life.

The Bills are really good and really relevant and should be in the conversation for the title for quite a few years to come as long as Josh is Josh. They have good coaching, very good management and maybe even a great owner.

I'll paraphrase someone else, with a twist — Bill Polian circa 1994. The current Bills can't hold a candle to the Super Bowl Bills, but as for these seasons in the life of a franchise: we might not see their likes again for a very long time.

Enjoy.

What I'll add is this:  McD joined the biggest laughingstock franchise in the NFL.  They weren't just lousy on the field, with a league-record streak of missing the playoffs -- they were an embarrassment off the field, to the point where well-regarded assistant coaches around the NFL would issue press releases stating that they weren't interested in taking the HC job with the Bills. 

Then they brought in McD.  Now, they make the playoffs every year and usually advance, stars from around the league want to come here, alumni of their organization get hired to run other teams, half of their games are on national TV, their players get plenty of league-wide recognition and they are generally viewed as a model, professional franchise.

They lost yesterday to the defending AFC champs, after winning a playoff game the week before and after a season in which, among other things, their franchise QB injured his throwing elbow, they lost their best defensive player and their top safety, who is an important team leader, for the season to injury, their best run-stuffer missed the game with an injury, their best DT was impaired with a shoulder injury, one of their guys more or less was dead on the ground in front of them in a game 20 days previously before being defibrillated back to life, their TE's kid brother collapsed and died on the football field just before the season, their city was hit by a deadly blizzard that killed 40 people and caused them to lose a home game and they had to break in a rookie OC.

That is an enormous number of physical and psychological obstacles to overcome.  But they lost 3 games by a total of 8 points, advanced in the playoffs and then got taken apart by a very good team that has now won 10 in a row and is firing on all cylinders.

The idea of moving on from McD is insanity, IMHO.

 

48 minutes ago, Thwomp! said:

Look at the playoff exits under Mc Clappy.  Look at his press conference yesterday.  Think he's gonna fire Dorsey or Frazier?  This is what coach purgatory looks like.

I won't even get started on TE, but that is far from well-equipped, yet highly paid.  D Line was atrocious yesterday, which a 34 year old Von Miller coming off ACL surgery, may or may not be able to help at some point next season.  Tre White is a huge question mark at CB and the rest, absent Taron Johnson, are average at best.  When Poyer goes, the safety position will be barren as well, with a couple huge question marks going forward.

This situation calls for an attempted rebuild-on-the-fly as much as any I've ever seen.  Chiefs do it almost every year, why can't we?  They do have very good coaching which helps.

 

My thoughts on McD are immediately above.  I won't repeat them here, but I will say that if you think we are in coach purgatory, you must not remember the Mularkey/Jauron/Gailey/Rex/other losers era very well.

We disagree about Knox.  I think he's a very good TE.

The D line was indeed manhandled yesterday.  But as noted above its best player, who is also the team's best defensive player, was missing, as was their best run-stuffer, and Oliver, their 2nd-best DL, was impaired by injury as well.

You are also right that Tre White's return to form is uncertain.  I think he's the kind of guy who will make it back, and that assuming he won't based on substandard performance after joining the team 10 weeks into the season, after a major knee injury and missing all of training camp and the first 10 weeks of the season, is a faulty assumption, but YMMV.

I think Hyde is at least as good as Poyer and that it's at least 50/50 that Hyde and White will return in full form next season.

We'll see.