Buffalo Bills 2022-23

[Scottysabres]

9 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

One of the worse officiated bills games in some time. Missed calls all around

I agree, holding all over that Baltimore offensive line.

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, inkman said:

I don’t think any of the knowledgeable fans thought that was ever a thing.  Or are you referring to what the national pundits will be saying about the Bills? 

Fans, pundits, and the Bills themselves. It's already started. 

11 hours ago, Marvin said:

I have two criteria for good teams.

1. Good teams can win even if they don't play well.

2. Good teams beat other good teams on the road.

This win was ugly and not something to brag about.  But winning games like this is what good teams do.

My criteria is based on being a great team. 

Great teams limit their own mental mistakes. Great teams are focused and don't ride their own hype train. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just win, Baby !!

And they did.

Josh didn't have a great game, but it was not a pleasant afternoon.

I think Josh Allen is the best overall player in the NFL.  Yup.

[carpandean]

12 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I think Josh Allen is the best overall player in the NFL.  Yup.

Every generation has its "best" debate.  For a long time, we had Brady vs. Manning.  Rarely can they be objectively stated with certainty.  This generation is no different.  I can't watch Mahomes play and think that we can objectively say Josh is "the best" with certainty.  He is definitely in that discussion, though, and likely will be for the rest of his career.  That's all that matters to me.  He's our quarterback and he's awesome (most of the time.)

[carpandean]

Kinda crazy, though:

Quote

The 2018 first-round pick (Allen) now has 147 career offensive touchdowns, tied with Peyton Manning for the fourth-most in a player's first five seasons in NFL history. Allen needs 25 touchdowns in his final 13 games of 2022 to break Hall of Famer Dan Marino's NFL record of 171. He would also pass Cam Newton (160) and Patrick Mahomes (159) on that list should he do so.

He has 13 games to score 13 touchdowns (passing or rushing) to pass Mahomes, 14 to pass Newton and 25 to pass Marino.  He has averaged ~ 2 2/3 TDs (99 TDs in 27 GP) over the last 2 1/4 seasons, which works out to ~34 more TD's.  Lot of things (we don't talk about Bruno, no, no) can happen in a season, but it's definitely attainable.

[JustOneParade]

On 9/21/2022 at 6:40 PM, Taro T said:

Not only that, the D has pitched a shutout in the 2nd 1/2 of both games.  (Actually, they're outscoring the opposition 7-0 in the 2nd 1/2 so far.  Fun.  😉 )

I wanted to bump and update @Taro T's observation from a couple weeks ago. Through the first four games of the season the Bills D has given up a total of 7 second half points. Considering the quality of the offenses they've played and the magnitude of the injuries they've dealt with on D, this is nothing short of incredible.

[LGR4GM]

Almost wish that guy who was in here after Mahomes got drafted, telling us how much we F'd up, was not permanently banned. He was right on Mahomes but like just about everyone, was wrong on Allen. 

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, JustOneParade said:

I wanted to bump and update @Taro T's observation from a couple weeks ago. Through the first four games of the season the Bills D has given up a total of 7 second half points. Considering the quality of the offenses they've played and the magnitude of the injuries they've dealt with on D, this is nothing short of incredible.

Which has the D netting out to even in 2nd 1/2's over the 1st Q of the season.  Milano's TD in the plus column & only 7 given up in the minus.

And 2 of those games were against running teams that have given them fits in the past.  Neither of which had Oliver in the lineup & Phillips went out in the 1st game against a run 1st team.  Really amazing stuff.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Taro T

[nfreeman]

So I was at the game in Baltimore yesterday with some old and close friends.  I've been attending 1 or 2 Bills games per year as long as I can remember.  I think that was the best Bills win I've seen in person since pre-drought (last year the only game I attended was the home stinker loss to Pittsburgh).  My wife, who is not a football fan, also attended, as did my friends' wives.  This was her first good NFL game and she enjoyed it too.

We also attended the most recent Bills game in Baltimore, which was also a rainy day.  That game was much worse -- it rained much harder, and the Bills lost 47-3 in JA's first game, which he was forced into after Nathan Peterman got hurt.  I will admit to having serious reservations about McD after that game.  So far though he's working out well!

Anyway, my impressions of the game were:

- JA and LJ are both great, great players.

- It was a thrilling NFL game.

- The Bills dropped a lot of passes.

- The Bills need another weapon on offense and at least 1 or 2 upgrades on the O-line.

- I don't usually engage in "our fans are better than your fans" discussions, as I think it's pretty close to complaining about the refs in terms of dumb sports talk, but I'll make an exception in this case.  Bottom line is that the Ravens fans were scared off by rain in the weather forecast.  It was still 60 degrees!  The tailgate lots were 1/3 full, at least 50% of which were comprised of Bills fans, the stadium was about 80% full, and it sounded like a Bills home game when we tied it at 20.  Pretty weak showing IMHO.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Almost wish that guy who was in here after Mahomes got drafted, telling us how much we F'd up, was not permanently banned. He was right on Mahomes but like just about everyone, was wrong on Allen. 

*JeffisMagic*

God help us ...

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

at least 1 or 2 upgrades on the O-line.

You mean they need their injured players back; that would do it.  But more is better.

[That Aud Smell]

4 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I think Josh Allen is the best overall player in the NFL.  Yup.

I think that a lot too ... OTOH

3 hours ago, carpandean said:

I can't watch Mahomes play and think that we can objectively say Josh is "the best" with certainty.  

Agree with this. When Mahomes threw that one TD last night, early in the game (before I fell asleep) - I just laughed out loud. That guy is unreal. They are both phenomenal, as is Lamar.

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

So I was at the game in Baltimore yesterday with some old and close friends. 

Great report - Go Bills!

[calti]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Almost wish that guy who was in here after Mahomes got drafted, telling us how much we F'd up, was not permanently banned. He was right on Mahomes but like just about everyone, was wrong on Allen. 

I had concerns about Josh from the beginning BUT sensed that he was a winner . I definitely marvel at the fact that he actually learned how to throw a football in his 20s. Whoever was coaching him is an unsung genius. I didnt think it could be done. Only occasionally does he miss someone wide open or throw a grounder.

Worst case scenario I was thinking Josh was gonna be another Philip Rivers.  But again I think a lot of us felt that the kid had something special even with the many gaffs and the horrendous  inaccuracy he displayed early on.--

[JustOneParade]

Can't wait to see what he becomes with another 100 games played over the next five seasons (including playoffs and Super Bowls 😉).

[TheAud]

3 hours ago, calti said:

I had concerns about Josh from the beginning BUT sensed that he was a winner . I definitely marvel at the fact that he actually learned how to throw a football in his 20s. Whoever was coaching him is an unsung genius. I didnt think it could be done. Only occasionally does he miss someone wide open or throw a grounder.

Actually, Jordan Palmer has gotten quite a bit of attention for helping Allen with his throwing mechanics and the mental part of being a QB. 

The thing about Allen is his athleticism. Not necessarily in the sense of speed/strength/size (although, he clearly has those) but rather his phenomenal body control. I think Allen is a guy who can be shown a tweak on his mechanics, practice it a few times, and it's burned into the circuitry to reproduce it that way going forward. Whereas normal athletes struggle to reproduce that form under game pressure and revert to bad mechanics and the subsequent issues those cause. 

I am convinced if he had gotten top notch coaching from HS through college, he wouldn't have dropped to 7th overall pick or been a polarizing prospect, he'd have been a dominant college QB and consensus #1 overall pick.  Lucky for us that improvement in throwing the ball accurately did not happen until he became a Bill. 

[LTS]

23 hours ago, Taro T said:

Not getting heated over it.  You keep saying he was tested every day.  Other than the league's CMO, who was not at their facility, have not seen anybody else involved say that.  

2 questions, which though one has been asked repeatedly,  they never get answered, and no, you did not answer it in you're reply 1. why when they say he did not suffer a head injury in the game (& therefore suffered no concussion), did not list any head injury as an issue during the week (though they did list a back injury and an ankle injury), and stated repeatedly that he was not in the concussion protocol would they have been testing him daily to prove he didn't suffer an injury that they say he didn't sustain?  That makes no sense, unless he really did have a concussion.

And 2.  Who besides the league's CMO said he was tested daily?  They said he wasn't in the concussion protocol so there would've been no reason to test him.  (Again, presuming they aren't lying about no head injury, however ....)

 

Perhaps this article will help: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/30/dr-allen-sills-tua-tagovailoa-was-checked-every-day-leading-up-to-thursdays-game/

Quote

“Absolutely,” Sills said as to whether Tua was checked even after he was cleared. “I know that he was checked after the game. I know that he was checked the following day. In fact, every player who gets an examination on game day gets a follow-up exam the following day, even if that exam was negative. That’s part of our concussion protocol. And then I know that this player was checked every day leading up to the game.”

I'm not sure what else I can say. Bottom line, if you don't want to believe the CMO of the NFL then you are insinuating he's lying. No one seems to be calling him out on his statements about how the NFL handles things. I would expect the CMO to be very aware and involved with an event of this magnitude.

And I would also say there are two protocols to be discussed. The first is the protocol to detect a concussion, the second is the one to be followed when a concussion has been diagnosed. So, as far as I can tell, they are following their protocol to diagnose a concussion. They might have even gone further than normal because of the controversy surrounding his return to play. You are asking why they are testing a guy if he doesn't have the injury and I am saying, they are doing it to determine if he has the injury.

Not all concussions are detected immediately. It is possible to take hours/days. https://nyulangone.org/conditions/concussion/diagnosis

In game procedure: https://www.nfl.com/playerhealthandsafety/resources/fact-sheets/nfl-head-neck-and-spine-committee-s-concussion-diagnosis-and-management-protocol

More on SCAT: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2017/04/26/bjsports-2017-097506SCAT5.full.pdf

Including this warning:

Quote

The diagnosis of a concussion is a clinical judgment, made by a medical professional. The SCAT5 should NOT be used by itself to make, or exclude, the diagnosis of concussion. An athlete may have a concussion even iftheir SCAT5 is “normal”

As a matter of practice I think it's safe to say that Tagovailoa should not have been allowed to re-enter the game. The NFL clearly does not take concussions seriously and never has. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Tackle football has one of the highest concussion rates (https://completeconcussions.com/concussion-research/concussion-rates-what-sport-most-concussions/)  and football is already seeing a decline in participation because of head injuries, among other things: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/28/the-decline-of-football-is-real-and-its-accelerating/?sh=16682f022f37. They have to figure out how to protect their lucrative business (for both owners and players) while balancing health. As outsiders to the sport it's easy for us to say what should happen. However, for those making millions of dollars or hoping to, football is all they've known. They've dedicated their lives to it and they don't want it taken away. We talk about the toughness of hockey players who get stitched up and return to play. It's the same mentality that dismisses a brain injury, right, wrong, or indifferent.

 

 

[MattPie]

10 minutes ago, LTS said:

As a matter of practice I think it's safe to say that Tagovailoa should not have been allowed to re-enter the game. The NFL clearly does not take concussions seriously and never has. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Tackle football has one of the highest concussion rates (https://completeconcussions.com/concussion-research/concussion-rates-what-sport-most-concussions/)  and football is already seeing a decline in participation because of head injuries, among other things: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/28/the-decline-of-football-is-real-and-its-accelerating/?sh=16682f022f37. They have to figure out how to protect their lucrative business (for both owners and players) while balancing health. As outsiders to the sport it's easy for us to say what should happen. However, for those making millions of dollars or hoping to, football is all they've known. They've dedicated their lives to it and they don't want it taken away. We talk about the toughness of hockey players who get stitched up and return to play. It's the same mentality that dismisses a brain injury, right, wrong, or indifferent.

It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. There's no way I'd encourage my kid to play a contact sport, but my family is not in a situation where sports may be the only way to a better life. It sets up an ugly dynamic of who ends up playing sports twenty years from now.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

Perhaps this article will help: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/30/dr-allen-sills-tua-tagovailoa-was-checked-every-day-leading-up-to-thursdays-game/

I'm not sure what else I can say. Bottom line, if you don't want to believe the CMO of the NFL then you are insinuating he's lying. No one seems to be calling him out on his statements about how the NFL handles things. I would expect the CMO to be very aware and involved with an event of this magnitude.

And I would also say there are two protocols to be discussed. The first is the protocol to detect a concussion, the second is the one to be followed when a concussion has been diagnosed. So, as far as I can tell, they are following their protocol to diagnose a concussion. They might have even gone further than normal because of the controversy surrounding his return to play. You are asking why they are testing a guy if he doesn't have the injury and I am saying, they are doing it to determine if he has the injury.

Not all concussions are detected immediately. It is possible to take hours/days. https://nyulangone.org/conditions/concussion/diagnosis

In game procedure: https://www.nfl.com/playerhealthandsafety/resources/fact-sheets/nfl-head-neck-and-spine-committee-s-concussion-diagnosis-and-management-protocol

More on SCAT: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2017/04/26/bjsports-2017-097506SCAT5.full.pdf

Including this warning:

As a matter of practice I think it's safe to say that Tagovailoa should not have been allowed to re-enter the game. The NFL clearly does not take concussions seriously and never has. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Tackle football has one of the highest concussion rates (https://completeconcussions.com/concussion-research/concussion-rates-what-sport-most-concussions/)  and football is already seeing a decline in participation because of head injuries, among other things: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/28/the-decline-of-football-is-real-and-its-accelerating/?sh=16682f022f37. They have to figure out how to protect their lucrative business (for both owners and players) while balancing health. As outsiders to the sport it's easy for us to say what should happen. However, for those making millions of dollars or hoping to, football is all they've known. They've dedicated their lives to it and they don't want it taken away. We talk about the toughness of hockey players who get stitched up and return to play. It's the same mentality that dismisses a brain injury, right, wrong, or indifferent.

 

 

Thank you for that.

The league doctor's statement still contradicts what the Fishies' head coach & Tua were saying during the week.

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-qb-tua-tagovailoa-health-and-status-still-a-mystery

(This was from Monday, but the coach was still saying the same thing later in the week.  But didn't save other links.  Sorry about that.)

Don't know if the doctor was lied to, is lying, somewhere in between or other.  But based on what is getting said now, am quite comfortable in saying the Fishies WERE lying.  And right now everyone is in CYA mode.  Still hoping the silver lining is that they actually put in procedures that at a minimum keep guys from getting 2 concussions on the same day.

Don't know that there will be additional responses on this subject; it's exhausting and just don't really have the time nor energy for it.  But do appreciate the response.  🍺

 

[drnkirishone]

Sounds like Jamison crowder is going on IR

[North Buffalo]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Thank you for that.

The league doctor's statement still contradicts what the Fishies' head coach & Tua were saying during the week.

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-qb-tua-tagovailoa-health-and-status-still-a-mystery

(This was from Monday, but the coach was still saying the same thing later in the week.  But didn't save other links.  Sorry about that.)

Don't know if the doctor was lied to, is lying, somewhere in between or other.  But based on what is getting said now, am quite comfortable in saying the Fishies WERE lying.  And right now everyone is in CYA mode.  Still hoping the silver lining is that they actually put in procedures that at a minimum keep guys from getting 2 concussions on the same day.

Don't know that there will be additional responses on this subject; it's exhausting and just don't really have the time nor energy for it.  But do appreciate the response.  🍺

 

I know sometimes radiologists read things different, miss fracture or minimize small trauma they may or may not focus on... would love to know if a neurologist viewed the exam(s) and if they were done without and or with contrast... contrast goes to where blood is pooling or concentrated and better contrast a study done without... whatever they missed something that is obvious. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I HATE neuro, of all fields, it's the one that is most "subjective" except for maybe Psych. 

I haven't read the guidelines or the protocols, but concussions can vary from severity of symptoms to onset of timing of those symptoms, they vary grossly. 

What isn't Subjective though is the immediate findings after a hard hit, that's where this whole thing falls apart. 

[Broken Ankles]

4 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

Sounds like Jamison crowder is going on IR

 Kumerow still with ankle sprain and McKenzie in concussion protocol.  Could see T. Austin off practice squad and Shakir getting significant snaps. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Broken Ankles

[That Aud Smell]

10 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

 Kumerow still with ankle sprain and McKenzie in concussion protocol.  Could see T. Austin off practice squad and Shakir getting significant snaps. 

Whither Hodgins? (Sp?)

[Taro T]

50 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Whither Hodgins? (Sp?)

If McKenzie & Crowder both can't go, Hodgins & Austin will both be brought up.  If the coaches are comfortable w/ Shakir, Hodgins, or a DB returning punts, then expect Hodgins will be the guy brought up if L'il Dirty is a go.  If not, expect we'll see Austin.  (Not sure if he's returned punts, he's definitely been a kick off returner.)

[Wyldnwoody44]

I'm off this weekend and was debating picking up 2 tix for The Pitt game this Sunday.... 300$ for uppers is simply not going to happen for me.