ddaryl Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 12 minutes ago, Weave said: BS on the 2nd half of your post. You have to fill holes and create depth just to get to the point of contender. We are at the point where a few FAs are going to be highly beneficial to the kids we are developing. I agree with adding FA's that fit the team.... What I don't agree with, and I didn't word it right, is going after top FA's that will be overpaid with term or older FA's that don't fit a short time period I believe that being patient can bring a couple of FA's that will be good fits. But trying to bring in multiple pieces to make us a cup contender this year is a fools move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ddaryl said: I believe that being patient can bring a couple of FA's that will be good fits. But trying to bring in multiple pieces to make us a cup contender this year is a fools move I agree also. What I am going to say is going to be 100% against what many people on this board think, but here goes... I LIKE watching a young team develop on its own, with very little 'tinkering'. I enjoy seeing young guys develop, even if it is in 'fits and starts' and is alot of 2 steps forward, one step back, one step forward, 3 steps back, 2 steps forward'. The fact the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in so long...to me that is not reason to sign a couple of free agents just to be competitive and try to make the playoffs. In the NHL, I look at as 2 end results can happen. 1.) You win the cup. 2.) you don't win the cup. I am pretty sure this team, no matter who they add, aren't winning the cup this year. So with that assumption, we are in scenario #2. If they aren't winning the cup, I have a LOT more fun and enjoy a season more watching young guys get a lot of playing time. Seeing young guys put in positions that are new to them. Seeing a team develop and grow. I get a lot more out of than that signing that bit name (or even mid level) 28-32 year old who can 'help the team win now'. If, IF there are free agents available that are 100% great fits in the room AND can help contribute to win a few more games also, bring in 1 or 2 of them, but nothing beyond that. Edited July 6, 2022 by mjd1001 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 12 hours ago, mjd1001 said: I agree also. What I am going to say is going to be 100% against what many people on this board think, but here goes... I LIKE watching a young team develop on its own, with very little 'tinkering'. I enjoy seeing young guys develop, even if it is in 'fits and starts' and is alot of 2 steps forward, one step back, one step forward, 3 steps back, 2 steps forward'. The fact the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in so long...to me that is not reason to sign a couple of free agents just to be competitive and try to make the playoffs. In the NHL, I look at as 2 end results can happen. 1.) You win the cup. 2.) you don't win the cup. I am pretty sure this team, no matter who they add, aren't winning the cup this year. So with that assumption, we are in scenario #2. If they aren't winning the cup, I have a LOT more fun and enjoy a season more watching young guys get a lot of playing time. Seeing young guys put in positions that are new to them. Seeing a team develop and grow. I get a lot more out of than that signing that bit name (or even mid level) 28-32 year old who can 'help the team win now'. If, IF there are free agents available that are 100% great fits in the room AND can help contribute to win a few more games also, bring in 1 or 2 of them, but nothing beyond that. So much this. I mean it’s probably not going to work and the charm will inevitably disappear if the losses mount. But it’s so much easier to be invested in our guys, as opposed to a bunch of mercenaries. And I think that’s true for the players in the room as well. If Dahlin and Cozens and Levi and the rest get good together, it will mean something, especially to those of us who were part of the ride from the beginning. It’s something Adams seems to recognize and fully embrace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) On 7/6/2022 at 10:27 AM, mjd1001 said: I agree also. What I am going to say is going to be 100% against what many people on this board think, but here goes... I LIKE watching a young team develop on its own, with very little 'tinkering'. I enjoy seeing young guys develop, even if it is in 'fits and starts' and is alot of 2 steps forward, one step back, one step forward, 3 steps back, 2 steps forward'. The fact the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in so long...to me that is not reason to sign a couple of free agents just to be competitive and try to make the playoffs. In the NHL, I look at as 2 end results can happen. 1.) You win the cup. 2.) you don't win the cup. I am pretty sure this team, no matter who they add, aren't winning the cup this year. So with that assumption, we are in scenario #2. If they aren't winning the cup, I have a LOT more fun and enjoy a season more watching young guys get a lot of playing time. Seeing young guys put in positions that are new to them. Seeing a team develop and grow. I get a lot more out of than that signing that bit name (or even mid level) 28-32 year old who can 'help the team win now'. If, IF there are free agents available that are 100% great fits in the room AND can help contribute to win a few more games also, bring in 1 or 2 of them, but nothing beyond that. I agree with a lot of this. One thing for me as a point of distinction would be your list of possible scenarios being encompassed in merely 2 outcomes: Cup, or Not. Have never really been a fan of the, “well, we aren’t winning the cup, so..” line of thinking. There’s every real mathematical possibility we’ll never see a Cup as fans, being a 1/32 proposition each year, more less. It’s not pessimism, just mathematics: it’s very hard to do. I realized that, while my best sporting memories were ultimately failures (2006), the memories from a run like that were so special that, even if we were to never win a Cup, in my estimation it’d be “worth it”, spending all this time, for moments like that. Indeed, if a Cup was necessary, I’d deem the investment on my part illogical, considering the high likelihood it never comes to pass. Maybe I'm rambling now: basically, I totally agree that following your “own guys” is a more rewarding experience. But where I differ is I can’t divide the scenarios into “Cup, or not” when, for me, the pursuit is more about making the playoffs and hopefully going on a “run”. To me, fighting for, and making the playoffs is a worthy enough goal. I think we should be careful that perfect doesn’t become the enemy of good. Edited July 7, 2022 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, Thorny said: One thing for me as a point of distinction would be your list of possible scenarios being encompassed in merely 2 outcomes: Cup, or Not. Have never really been a fan of the, “well, we aren’t winning the cup, so..” line of thinking. There’s every real mathematical possibility we’ll never see a Cup as fans, being a 1/32 proposition each year, more less. It’s not pessimism, just mathematics: it’s very hard to do. To me, fighting for, and making the playoffs is a worthy enough goal. I think we should be careful that perfect doesn’t become the enemy of good. I'm not saying that If you don't think you are winning the cup, then to not try to win a few extra games. Unless you are in a total 'tank' mode then you should always try to win games. What I was trying to say is that if you think you are in that 'not winning the cup this year' mode (meaning not reasonably in the top 10-15 teams at least), then to not make moves with the only goal of winning a couple extra games with not much of a long term benefit. If the Sabres turn into a 95+ point team on a consistent basis, then talk to me about short term deals to try to win 'this year'. But right now, I'm not interested in that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, mjd1001 said: I'm not saying that If you don't think you are winning the cup, then to not try to win a few extra games. Unless you are in a total 'tank' mode then you should always try to win games. What I was trying to say is that if you think you are in that 'not winning the cup this year' mode (meaning not reasonably in the top 10-15 teams at least), then to not make moves with the only goal of winning a couple extra games with not much of a long term benefit. If the Sabres turn into a 95+ point team on a consistent basis, then talk to me about short term deals to try to win 'this year'. But right now, I'm not interested in that at all. Ya it wasn’t really a comment advocating for, or against, specific transactions, nor the the proper time to do them, merely an elaboration on the philosophical. Always find the “why do you follow” conversation an interesting one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, mjd1001 said: I'm not saying that If you don't think you are winning the cup, then to not try to win a few extra games. Unless you are in a total 'tank' mode then you should always try to win games. What I was trying to say is that if you think you are in that 'not winning the cup this year' mode (meaning not reasonably in the top 10-15 teams at least), then to not make moves with the only goal of winning a couple extra games with not much of a long term benefit. If the Sabres turn into a 95+ point team on a consistent basis, then talk to me about short term deals to try to win 'this year'. But right now, I'm not interested in that at all. As you make clear you have to understand where your team is at relative to where it wants to go when making personnel decisions. There is a balance between the future and the present. As you acknowledge before you can get to the serious cup contending stage you have to get to being a fringe playoff contending team. You have to ask yourself where are you on the league ladder measuring stick? Are you on the bottom, middle or near the top? I believe, and I think many others also believe, that this team has amassed enough talent to become a fringe playoff contending team this season. It just seems to me that what would derail that attainable aspiration this year is the goalie situation. If that position can be reasonably addressed, this team can continue moving up that competitive ladder. That would be progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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