Official Sabres Acquire Ben Bishop and a 2022 7th Rounder for Future Considerations

[Weave]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Oh, it could probably take up a thread of its own.  Add Nylander to the list as well.

That thread exists.  Somewhere in here…..

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

That thread exists.  Somewhere in here…..

Found it and bumped it.

Some funny hot takes in there.  From 2016.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, shrader said:

So you want to trade for a guy that you plan on throwing in the press box?  I know they have to add money, but there has to be a more productive way than that.  It's essentially what they did here with Bishop, but you can't do that 3 or 4 times... well you can, but I don't see that as the plan moving forward.

Not exactly. I'm only throwing him into the press box IFF one of the kids takes away his job. Whether or not they can do that remains to be seen, and if they struggle you have an option to go back to the veteran for any length of time needed. 

[SwampD]

I haven’t really been paying much attention to the Sabres’ moves, but WTF?! This is another Boychuk move.

Ben Bishop is never going to play again. Correct? 

If this is another “No!… really,… we’re not tanking this year” year, then they can ***** right off.

I dream of the day when, as Shoresy would say, we hate to lose.

[mjd1001]

If they are not going to spend to the cap (and it is hard to see them doing it) then why does this move upset anyone?

You are helping out another team that you aren't competing with, that is in a different conference than you are, and you are giving nothing for a free 7th round pick. Is a 7th round pick worth much? Nope, but if it is basically free, why would you NOT want to do this?

[French Collection]

24 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If they are not going to spend to the cap (and it is hard to see them doing it) then why does this move upset anyone?

You are helping out another team that you aren't competing with, that is in a different conference than you are, and you are giving nothing for a free 7th round pick. Is a 7th round pick worth much? Nope, but if it is basically free, why would you NOT want to do this?

The only thing that could become a problem is if you give cap space to a team that is competing with you for UFA goalie.

For example, the Sabres take Kane and the Hawks turn around and sign Campbell and DeSmith. Sabres bringing back Anderson and promoting UPL leads to KA being tarred and feathered.

 

[inkman]

54 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If they are not going to spend to the cap (and it is hard to see them doing it) then why does this move upset anyone?

You are helping out another team that you aren't competing with, that is in a different conference than you are, and you are giving nothing for a free 7th round pick. Is a 7th round pick worth much? Nope, but if it is basically free, why would you NOT want to do this?

Some people equate these types of moves with the Sabres being cheap 

[woods-racer]

5 minutes ago, inkman said:

Some people equate these types of moves with the Sabres being cheap 

There are very few high quality UFA players willing to sign 1 or 2 year deals so that means the Sabres have to get to the cap floor in other ways. I'm not sure how that is being confused with being cheap, but you are right, it is.

[Carmel Corn]

19 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

There are very few high quality UFA players willing to sign 1 or 2 year deals so that means the Sabres have to get to the cap floor in other ways. I'm not sure how that is being confused with being cheap, but you are right, it is.

Seems to me that the Sabres have signed UFA's to one year deals in abundance though.  Some might be keepers, but most have moved on.  If you statement is qualified by "high quality", then yes...that thins the herd.

[woods-racer]

2 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Seems to me that the Sabres have signed UFA's to one year deals in abundance though.  Some might be keepers, but most have moved on.  If you statement is qualified by "high quality", then yes...that thins the herd.

Do we want low quality UFAs and let our *good kids* play in Rochester?

Isn't that what this all boils down to?

Play the cap game or pay over priced Jags?

It's just a really smart move by a GM that can easily be called cheap. 

[SwampD]

12 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

If they are not going to spend to the cap (and it is hard to see them doing it) then why does this move upset anyone?

You are helping out another team that you aren't competing with, that is in a different conference than you are, and you are giving nothing for a free 7th round pick. Is a 7th round pick worth much? Nope, but if it is basically free, why would you NOT want to do this?

Am I supposed to be excited about acquiring a player (for the second year in a row) who will never see the ice, just to get to the cap floor?

I’ve been told over and over that the Sabres have turned some kind of corner (as is proven by our late season record.) if that’s the case, then why aren’t we spending (even overspending) on actual players that actually skate,… on the ice, during games, that would help them get even better and maybe even get to the playoffs.

I mean, unless they are trying to make sure that no one can ever beat their playoffless streak record.

 

[inkman]

6 hours ago, SwampD said:

Am I supposed to be excited about acquiring a player (for the second year in a row) who will never see the ice, just to get to the cap floor?

I’ve been told over and over that the Sabres have turned some kind of corner (as is proven by our late season record.) if that’s the case, then why aren’t we spending (even overspending) on actual players that actually skate,… on the ice, during games, that would help them get even better and maybe even get to the playoffs.

I mean, unless they are trying to make sure that no one can ever beat their playoffless streak record.

 

Free agency hasn’t started yet?

[mjd1001]

7 hours ago, SwampD said:

Am I supposed to be excited about acquiring a player (for the second year in a row) who will never see the ice, just to get to the cap floor?

I’ve been told over and over that the Sabres have turned some kind of corner (as is proven by our late season record.) if that’s the case, then why aren’t we spending (even overspending) on actual players that actually skate,… on the ice, during games, that would help them get even better and maybe even get to the playoffs.

I mean, unless they are trying to make sure that no one can ever beat their playoffless streak record.

 

I'm not saying to be excited for it, but I can't see complaining about it.  Again, a 7th round pick isn't much, but you basically got it for free.  For taking on a contract that will have no impact on you, someone gave you a lotter ticket...that is all I'm saying.  Doing this does not have much of an impact on any moves they may or may not make in the next few months.

[SwampD]

24 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not saying to be excited for it, but I can't see complaining about it.  Again, a 7th round pick isn't much, but you basically got it for free.  For taking on a contract that will have no impact on you, someone gave you a lotter ticket...that is all I'm saying.  Doing this does not have much of an impact on any moves they may or may not make in the next few months.

By doing this, though, they are telling us that they are most likely not going to make any moves (ones that would matter, anyway) in the the next few months. I can be pissed at that.

Lottery ticket?… 7th round?!… More like a scratch off at the 15 Minute Lube place. Hey, they’ll check our ac level for free next visit!

Edited June 24, 2022 by SwampD

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Free agency hasn’t started yet?

I will be shocked , shocked I tell you if they make any move that has any meaningful impact on the ice.

This move pretty much tells us that they aren’t going to do anything. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they “keep their powder dry,” as they say?

[ddaryl]

9 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I will be shocked , shocked I tell you if they make any move that has any meaningful impact on the ice.

This move pretty much tells us that they aren’t going to do anything. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they “keep their powder dry,” as they say?

The ONLY move they have to make is a Goalie. This year is all about letting our young core continue to build chemistry. No choice FA's are coming here, and were not giving up any of our core assets in trade IMO unless its for a young player entering their prime with upside. Those are not easy to come by and cost multiple assets

We may take on more salary on a 1 year rental player but that should not cost us a any assets.

IMO the team we have now, minus the G need, has to push for the playoffs cause if this core team can't take it up one more notch this year then we don't have the core we thought. 

[Taro T]

32 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I will be shocked , shocked I tell you if they make any move that has any meaningful impact on the ice.

This move pretty much tells us that they aren’t going to do anything. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they “keep their powder dry,” as they say?

Their powder IS still "dry."  

The Bishop move ONLY effects their ability to keep from falling under the cap floor.  (An easy bar to cross is now even easier to get past.)  It has negligible to no bearing on their ability to have the salaries of actual players butt up against the cap.   Hodgson limits them far more than Bishop will & he only costs them a smidge under $800k of the cap. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

By doing this, though, they are telling us that they are most likely not going to make any moves (ones that would matter, anyway) in the the next few months. I can be pissed at that.

Lottery ticket?… 7th round?!… More like a scratch off at the 15 Minute Lube place. Hey, they’ll check our ac level for free next visit!

But you say they are telling us they are most likely not going to make any moves that matter. It doesn't matter whether this 'tells' you that or not, because this move is not the thing that is preventing it.  Again, this is basically a free 7th rounder. If they change their mind about signing someone, or someone falls in their lap, this will not prevent them from doing that.

And lottery ticket?  Make fun of it if you want, but it is what it is. There have been a handful of 7th rounders that have turned into legit NHL players. Is it likely? No, but again, for free why would you not want it if it is there for the taking at effectively no cost to you?

[SwampD]

50 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

The ONLY move they have to make is a Goalie. This year is all about letting our young core continue to build chemistry. No choice FA's are coming here, and were not giving up any of our core assets in trade IMO unless its for a young player entering their prime with upside. Those are not easy to come by and cost multiple assets

We may take on more salary on a 1 year rental player but that should not cost us a any assets.

IMO the team we have now, minus the G need, has to push for the playoffs cause if this core team can't take it up one more notch this year then we don't have the core we thought. 

1st bolded. Chemistry is built by winning. Period. And isn’t that what last year was about? They are eventually going to have to offer us more, right?… RIGHT?!!!

2nd bolded. I kinda think that if we don’t know the answer to this already, then we probably don’t.

 

We’ve been told to just wait one more year for some mythical core to “mature” or “build chemistry” ever since CD/DB left 15 years ago. It’s a crock and I can’t believe people still buy it. It is possible to develop young talent and win at the same time.

Seems like the team has a built in excuse for when they fail.

We have a decent young core here. Imagine if we spent money on an actual first line (they can even overpay for it) and watched the kids mature while we were winning.

I seriously can’t believe that people are okay with spending money on retired players two years in a row instead of icing actual NHLers.

[matter2003]

20 minutes ago, SwampD said:

1st bolded. Chemistry is built by winning. Period. And isn’t that what last year was about? They are eventually going to have to offer us more, right?… RIGHT?!!!

2nd bolded. I kinda think that if we don’t know the answer to this already, then we probably don’t.

 

We’ve been told to just wait one more year for some mythical core to “mature” or “build chemistry” ever since CD/DB left 15 years ago. It’s a crock and I can’t believe people still buy it. It is possible to develop young talent and win at the same time.

Seems like the team has a built in excuse for when they fail.

We have a decent young core here. Imagine if we spent money on an actual first line (they can even overpay for it) and watched the kids mature while we were winning.

I seriously can’t believe that people are okay with spending money on retired players two years in a row instead of icing actual NHLers.

But Chemistry is also sometimes an accelerant to winning as well...

[Archie Lee]

17 minutes ago, SwampD said:

1st bolded. Chemistry is built by winning. Period. And isn’t that what last year was about? They are eventually going to have to offer us more, right?… RIGHT?!!!

2nd bolded. I kinda think that if we don’t know the answer to this already, then we probably don’t.

 

We’ve been told to just wait one more year for some mythical core to “mature” or “build chemistry” ever since CD/DB left 15 years ago. It’s a crock and I can’t believe people still buy it. It is possible to develop young talent and win at the same time.

Seems like the team has a built in excuse for when they fail.

We have a decent young core here. Imagine if we spent money on an actual first line (they can even overpay for it) and watched the kids mature while we were winning.

I seriously can’t believe that people are okay with spending money on retired players two years in a row instead of icing actual NHLers.

I understand why, for some, everyday that the Sabres are not a playoff team will be viewed in the context of 11 years of losing, failure and mismanagement. This is completely understandable.  We all have different outlooks and viewpoints and it is not unreasonable for a fan who invests time, money and emotion into a pro-sports team to expect that the primary goal of each season is to win.

For others, it is is easier (maybe even necessary from an emotional point of view) to separate what is currently happening from prior years of futility.  Adams can't undo what happened in the previous decade; all he can do is take the resources available and use them to try and build the team that he envisions.  Adams has really only been fully in charge of the team's direction since they fired Krueger; thus far, acknowledging that he isn't batting 1.000%, the team has steadily moved in the right direction.  

I agree with you that the reasonable conclusion from the Bishop trade is that the Sabres have no intention to acquire contracts that take us much higher than the cap floor. Where I differ from you is that I don't see this as a bad thing. Acquiring higher-priced veteran contracts can only be done at the expense of giving up young and valuable assets through trades or through singing UFAs who might block younger players and/or cause cap issues in the longer term. Adams is clearly not prepared at this point to do these things. 

Although the plan may take longer to show results than I would like, it does seem sound.  My perception is that we are no longer the league laughing stock when it comes to team management, with Chicago and Philadelphia having taken over the role.  I'm going to wait and judge the results.   

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

1st bolded. Chemistry is built by winning. Period. And isn’t that what last year was about? They are eventually going to have to offer us more, right?… RIGHT?!!!

2nd bolded. I kinda think that if we don’t know the answer to this already, then we probably don’t.

 

We’ve been told to just wait one more year for some mythical core to “mature” or “build chemistry” ever since CD/DB left 15 years ago. It’s a crock and I can’t believe people still buy it. It is possible to develop young talent and win at the same time.

Seems like the team has a built in excuse for when they fail.

We have a decent young core here. Imagine if we spent money on an actual first line (they can even overpay for it) and watched the kids mature while we were winning.

I seriously can’t believe that people are okay with spending money on retired players two years in a row instead of icing actual NHLers.

Doesn't change the fact that no prized UFA's are coming here unless we grossly overpay, and majority of young heading into their prime RFA's are not going to get traded by their teams. Even if we grossly overpay, I'd bet the farm prized FA's will be looking for contenders, even at a lesser price tag now, rather than helping a franchise become and eventual contender.

So what does that leaves us. 2nd level past their prime players who can be good mentors on short term, or lower level players that might just need a change of scenery on short term prove it contracts. We might see moves like that

I don't see the need to rush anything. Yes there will come a time we will pursue top players, but it just isn't this year. I imagine there will be some additions but it will probably be more roll players bottom 6 types while this core continues to cement the top 2 lines.

Goalie is the 1 place where efforts need to be made, but again we will only get interest from the 2nd tier group.

Edited June 24, 2022 by ddaryl

[Archie Lee]

It is not lost on Adams, I'm sure, that the two teams in the Cup Finals, widely considered to be the best run teams in the league, were built through the draft.  The key trade acquisitions were either young when acquired (Sergachev, Cernak in Tampa; Girard, Compher in Colorado) or were not acquired until the team was clearly ready to compete (McDonagh in Tampa; Kadri, Toews, Kuemper in Colorado). 

Acquiring top UFAs means overpaying, even for good franchises in desirable locations. Our path will be through the draft, nurturing our own young players and then eventually needing to trade assets for pieces that are missing. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

26 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It is not lost on Adams, I'm sure, that the two teams in the Cup Finals, widely considered to be the best run teams in the league, were built through the draft.  The key trade acquisitions were either young when acquired (Sergachev, Cernak in Tampa; Girard, Compher in Colorado) or were not acquired until the team was clearly ready to compete (McDonagh in Tampa; Kadri, Toews, Kuemper in Colorado). 

Acquiring top UFAs means overpaying, even for good franchises in desirable locations. Our path will be through the draft, nurturing our own young players and then eventually needing to trade assets for pieces that are missing. 

This has always been the way with the Sabres.  When ever they were good it was through the draft and adding to that base.  1975, 1999, 2006 that's about it.  A bit of a difference was in 2006 when Briere and Drury were aquired and became real core pieces.  In 1999 they had Hasek and a bunch of good players that worked hard.  In 1975 Punch built the solid foundation through the draft and added key pieces.

[SwampD]

In my opinion, Bishop is grossly overpaid.

Given the fact that he wont even play, there is no other FA we could bring in, no matter how high the price, who would be more grossly overpaid.

I just don’t get why people are okay with that, yet don’t want to “grossly overpay” someone who could actually help the team win. (Unless that isn’t the plan #thisisntatanktank)