NHL Trade Rumors and Speculation 2022-23

[tom webster]

8 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

After an Ullmark-level goalie backstopped a team to the Cup, I think those of us who are clamouring for a clear #1 netminder in the next few seasons are going to be sorely disappointed.  I just don't think GMKA will go out of his way to get a long-term, established #1 unless and until one of Pekka-Lukkonen, Subban, Portillo, or Levi breaks out.

Kuemper is not Ullmark level.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

After an Ullmark-level goalie backstopped a team to the Cup, I think those of us who are clamouring for a clear #1 netminder in the next few seasons are going to be sorely disappointed.  I just don't think GMKA will go out of his way to get a long-term, established #1 unless and until one of Pekka-Lukkonen, Subban, Portillo, or Levi breaks out.

28yr old Subban is not breaking out.

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

After an Ullmark-level goalie backstopped a team to the Cup, I think those of us who are clamouring for a clear #1 netminder in the next few seasons are going to be sorely disappointed.  I just don't think GMKA will go out of his way to get a long-term, established #1 unless and until one of Pekka-Lukkonen, Subban, Portillo, or Levi breaks out.

 

11 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Kuemper is not Ullmark level.

Echoing what Tom says here.

Kuemper has been a high level starting goalie for years.

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

After an Ullmark-level goalie backstopped a team to the Cup, I think those of us who are clamouring for a clear #1 netminder in the next few seasons are going to be sorely disappointed.  I just don't think GMKA will go out of his way to get a long-term, established #1 unless and until one of Pekka-Lukkonen, Subban, Portillo, or Levi breaks out.

Been saying for a while his winning the SC with Ward & Gerber gives him a view of GTing that many of us don't share.  (And IMHO has a strong likelihood of biting the team in the arse when it does finally enter its window.)  But, even though he may not believe you need THAT guy who like Price is pretty much always on, you have to have good enough keepers that on any given day at least 1 should be on.  Which means you really need 2 guys Ullmark quality or ideally better.

So far, heading into year 3, he's had 1 Ullmark quality guy (who wasn't a given to be Ullmark quality heading into that year) that got injured and another guy that was Ullmark+ quality for ~6 games before he broke.  It hasn't been good enough because he hasn't found even the "good enough w/ a well rounded team" pairing that he knows is the floor of what's minimally acceptable.

[Marvin]

18 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Kuemper is not Ullmark level.

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

 

Echoing what Tom says here.

Kuemper has been a high level starting goalie for years.

Are you all saying that all those pundits are wrong to claim that the Avalanche won with a mediocre goaltender?  Heaven forbid!

Seriously, I don't get it either.  But I think GMKA might talk himself into believing it.  Hence...

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Been saying for a while his winning the SC with Ward & Gerber gives him a view of GTing that many of us don't share.  (And IMHO has a strong likelihood of biting the team in the arse when it does finally enter its window.)  But, even though he may not believe you need THAT guy who like Price is pretty much always on, you have to have good enough keepers that on any given day at least 1 should be on.  Which means you really need 2 guys Ullmark quality or ideally better.

So far, heading into year 3, he's had 1 Ullmark quality guy (who wasn't a given to be Ullmark quality heading into that year) that got injured and another guy that was Ullmark+ quality for ~6 games before he broke.  It hasn't been good enough because he hasn't found even the "good enough w/ a well rounded team" pairing that he knows is the floor of what's minimally acceptable.

 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

From Friedman’s 32 Thoughts

Buffalo: Word is the Sabres and Victor Olofsson are making progress on an extension. Craig Anderson is back, but the Sabres continue to examine the goalie market — knowing his workload can’t be too heavy. Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen is an option, but they’re looking at all external options. You name them, they’ve thought about it. Buffalo’s got a boatload of cap room, but appear inclined to save it for its young core’s eventual extensions. Or, if something really interesting comes along.

 

So they DON’T plan on bringing in any impact forwards / defensemen, but are open to the idea, and they DO plan on bringing in an upgrade for the goaltending, but are open to the idea of not. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Thorny

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So they DON’T plan on bringing in any impact forwards / defensemen, but are open to the idea, and they DO plan on bringing in an upgrade for the goaltending, but are open to the idea of not. 

It is hard to tell which negative inferences we should make.  This is why I think all the information on the Sabres is 2nd and 3rd hand -- all external to the organisation.

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So they DON’T plan on bringing in any impact forwards / defensemen, but are open to the idea, and they DO plan on bringing in an upgrade for the goaltending, but are open to the idea of not. 

This sounds both like an Onion headline and an accurate depiction of Adams’ off-season plan.

[Digger]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

28yr old Subban is not breaking out.

Why do we keep talking about Malcolm Subban?  He's not still under contract is he?  Why would we sign him again (other than a nice guy that can sing the anthem if needed).  Move on.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are making the assumption that the Sabres won't be competitive this upcoming season. Why? There certainly is a void in net right now but it is more likely than not that another goalie will be brought in. In the last third of the season the Sabres were very much so a competitive team. And there is no doubt that the young players currently on the roster such as Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Tage, Cozens, Mitts etc. will improve.  It will be internal improvement more than the added players that will make the Sabres a better team. 

I understand how one can be impatient and skeptical with this organization but I don't understand your level of despair when there is visible evidence that the team will be better. 

I think you misunderstand me. It's not a "level of despair" I just think that we could leap forward a lot (like the Rangers did) if we add some key pieces to fill the soft spots and that opportunity is here, but based on what I've read and heard it seems like they will pass on that opportunity. 

I'm not sure which young players will improve or not. I hope they all do. They might, but some might not. Some might disappoint. It's hard to say. Will we be better? Maybe. If we have decent goaltending. But I see an internal development improvement as a SLOW progression and I want PLAYOFFS!

Add a good goalie, a solid veteran RHD and a proven 2C and maybe one solid upgraded grit player penalty killer to this young core and we could challenge for a wild card spot and maybe make the playoffs if somebody falls off a little (Boston or Pittsburgh maybe). If we don't add those players we will not be in the running come season end. We wait another year. Is that despair? If you want to call it that, but I just want playoffs.

[Taro T]

42 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

It is hard to tell which negative inferences we should make.  This is why I think all the information on the Sabres is 2nd and 3rd hand -- all external to the organisation.

Since Russ Brandon went bye-bye (& Berchtold on the Bills side too) all the Pegula owned teams have been pretty leak-free.  Which, though frustrating in a 'we need to know NOW what they're going to do in 3 weeks' is a good thing as the other franchises have less info on them as well.

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

After an Ullmark-level goalie backstopped a team to the Cup, I think those of us who are clamouring for a clear #1 netminder in the next few seasons are going to be sorely disappointed.  I just don't think GMKA will go out of his way to get a long-term, established #1 unless and until one of Pekka-Lukkonen, Subban, Portillo, or Levi breaks out.

Well the Avs are a very talented and powerful team that peaked at the right time and didn’t have to rely on brilliant goaltending but how many cups are won without great goaltending?   Not many.  Most teams don’t get past round 2 without great goaltending.  
 

I prefer that Adams shore up the goaltending and help the young core win more games.  
 

I also think Kuemper is superior to Ullmark. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

56 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think you misunderstand me. It's not a "level of despair" I just think that we could leap forward a lot (like the Rangers did) if we add some key pieces to fill the soft spots and that opportunity is here, but based on what I've read and heard it seems like they will pass on that opportunity. 

I'm not sure which young players will improve or not. I hope they all do. They might, but some might not. Some might disappoint. It's hard to say. Will we be better? Maybe. If we have decent goaltending. But I see an internal development improvement as a SLOW progression and I want PLAYOFFS!

Add a good goalie, a solid veteran RHD and a proven 2C and maybe one solid upgraded grit player penalty killer to this young core and we could challenge for a wild card spot and maybe make the playoffs if somebody falls off a little (Boston or Pittsburgh maybe). If we don't add those players we will not be in the running come season end. We wait another year. Is that despair? If you want to call it that, but I just want playoffs.

The reason why the Rangers made the leap forward is that their goalie played like one of the top two or three goalies in the league. We are definitely not going to get that level from play regardless of who the GM brings in. As I said in prior posts the primary driving factor is going to come from internal improvements from players who are already on the roster. Not only is that the best way moving forward, it is the fastest way to move forward. I am counting Mitts and Cozens to up their game the most and improve the team. The Italian coach with the cool blue framed glasses has stated that Mitts was the best player in camp. That is encouraging. 

I'm also counting on the GM to bring in players at the positions you noted. But although they won't be at an exceptional level, they should collectively contribute to improve the team. How much so? I can't say. What I can say is that the young GM has been clear on his strategy to rebuild the roster. It's obvious to me that he is adhering to it. Some people don't like his approach because it doesn't meet their desire for instant gratification. I'm on board because I know that I don't reside in a fantasy world. 

 

[kas23]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Been saying for a while his winning the SC with Ward & Gerber gives him a view of GTing that many of us don't share.  …

I think your making a mountain of an assumption here. Just because he was on a team that won a SC with scrub goalies certainly doesn’t mean he thinks this is the way to go. That’s like saying you can win a Super Bowl with a scrub QB just because Trent Dilfer won one. Is it possible to win a SC with scrub goalies? Absolutely. Is it likely? Absolutely not. Adams isn’t an idiot. Of course he knows the path is easier with stellar goaltending. Did he happen to trade for the best goalie in college hockey by accident?

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I think your making a mountain of an assumption here. Just because he was on a team that won a SC with scrub goalies certainly doesn’t mean he thinks this is the way to go. That’s like saying you can win a Super Bowl with a scrub QB just because Trent Dilfer won one. Is it possible to win a SC with scrub goalies? Absolutely. Is it likely? Absolutely not. Adams isn’t an idiot. Of course he knows the path is easier with stellar goaltending. Did he happen to trade for the best goalie in college hockey by accident?

I believe, as others do, that Levi is the goalie of the future that the GM is counting on to anchor this team. I, and others, also believe that he prefers to add a stopgap goalie until Levi or maybe UPL is ready to assume the heavy load. His longer view of the position is understandable but carries a risk of sabotaging the current roster's ability to compete. With the goalie position I wish he would focus on the present more and upgrade the position sooner rather than later.  

[Weave]

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Some people don't like his approach because it doesn't meet their desire for instant gratification. I'm on board because I know that I don't reside in a fantasy world. 

 

Just a bit condescending.

Nothing is guaranteed.  The wait and develop internally approach takes alot of time.  While that happens Dahlin could suffer a career altering injury.  Same with any of the others.

We have an actual team for the first time in over a decade.  We know what holes need to be filled.  We know that winning and playoff success won’t come right away once the core is fully developed.  It took Colorado 5 seasons of playoffs to get it right.  Plugging holes now and starting a winning environment now is not impatient, it is acknowledging that winning the whole thing takes time and the longer you wait the more you chance fate intervening and your older core players aging out.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Just a bit condescending.

Nothing is guaranteed.  The wait and develop internally approach takes alot of time.  While that happens Dahlin could suffer a career altering injury.  Same with any of the others.

We have an actual team for the first time in over a decade.  We know what holes need to be filled.  We know that winning and playoff success won’t come right away once the core is fully developed.  It took Colorado 5 seasons of playoffs to get it right.  Plugging holes now and starting a winning environment now is not impatient, it is acknowledging that winning the whole thing takes time and the longer you wait the more you chance fate intervening and your older core players aging out.

Your condescending characterization is off the mark. 

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

So they DON’T plan on bringing in any impact forwards / defensemen, but are open to the idea, and they DO plan on bringing in an upgrade for the goaltending, but are open to the idea of not. 

Pretty Much 

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I think your making a mountain of an assumption here. Just because he was on a team that won a SC with scrub goalies certainly doesn’t mean he thinks this is the way to go. That’s like saying you can win a Super Bowl with a scrub QB just because Trent Dilfer won one. Is it possible to win a SC with scrub goalies? Absolutely. Is it likely? Absolutely not. Adams isn’t an idiot. Of course he knows the path is easier with stellar goaltending. Did he happen to trade for the best goalie in college hockey by accident?

Well, you are the one assuming here.  Ward won the Conn Smythe in the year that the Sabres lost a D-man after every victory in the 3rd round so though it turns out over his career he was little better than a scrub, he got hot at the right time & on nights he wasn't Gerber (another meh goalie) was good enough.  Also, Ullmark+ goaltending isn't scrub, though it leaves a lot to be desired.  (Your better football analogy would be Mark Rypien who was adequate or worse most of his career but sold his soul to be an actual QB in '91.  Rypien led that team's offense.  Dilfer wasn't bad enough to offset arguably the best D of all time ('85 Bears would like to have a word, but that Ravens D was definitely in the mix) and nobody would ever suggest somebody is intentionally providing only a Dilferesque level of goaltending competency.

How many of the "best goalies in college hockey" have turned into exceptional goalies at the NHL level?  There have been a few through the years going back to Dryden playing for Cornell.  But being the best in the NCAA is about as indicative of NHL success as winning the Hobey Baker is - sometimes it translates, but more often than not it doesn't.  Hellybuck was the last one that kept it up at the next level and his heyday was a year before Eichel was drafted.  And personally, really like Levi's potential.  But until he's here & effective, all it is is potential.  Something UPL had in spades prior to the double hip surgery and Noronnen had in the AHL (speaking of potential unrealized).

Will be very surprised if a significant part of the cap is spent on GTing as this team is filled out while Adams is here.  With the unique cap situation they have presently, it might happen that he spends serious money on a ST guy THIS off-season, but don't really expect it.  Would really like to see Adams FIX the GTing.  Unless Levi pans out, he might never truly do it.  Adams would seem to be quite content w/ Kuemper level goaltending, but he has yet to show he can identify that & land it.  It also remains to be seen if he can build that '06 Canes squad that Kuemper level goaltending w/ reasonable backups (can't forget the backups carried them well enough while Darcy was out) would be close enough for.

 

[jad1]

15 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, you are the one assuming here.  Ward won the Conn Smythe in the year that the Sabres lost a D-man after every victory in the 3rd round so though it turns out over his career he was little better than a scrub, he got hot at the right time & on nights he wasn't Gerber (another meh goalie) was good enough.  Also, Ullmark+ goaltending isn't scrub, though it leaves a lot to be desired.  (Your better football analogy would be Mark Rypien who was adequate or worse most of his career but sold his soul to be an actual QB in '91.  Rypien led that team's offense.  Dilfer wasn't bad enough to offset arguably the best D of all time ('85 Bears would like to have a word, but that Ravens D was definitely in the mix) and nobody would ever suggest somebody is intentionally providing only a Dilferesque level of goaltending competency.

How many of the "best goalies in college hockey" have turned into exceptional goalies at the NHL level?  There have been a few through the years going back to Dryden playing for Cornell.  But being the best in the NCAA is about as indicative of NHL success as winning the Hobey Baker is - sometimes it translates, but more often than not it doesn't.  Hellybuck was the last one that kept it up at the next level and his heyday was a year before Eichel was drafted.  And personally, really like Levi's potential.  But until he's here & effective, all it is is potential.  Something UPL had in spades prior to the double hip surgery and Noronnen had in the AHL (speaking of potential unrealized).

Will be very surprised if a significant part of the cap is spent on GTing as this team is filled out while Adams is here.  With the unique cap situation they have presently, it might happen that he spends serious money on a ST guy THIS off-season, but don't really expect it.  Would really like to see Adams FIX the GTing.  Unless Levi pans out, he might never truly do it.  Adams would seem to be quite content w/ Kuemper level goaltending, but he has yet to show he can identify that & land it.  It also remains to be seen if he can build that '06 Canes squad that Kuemper level goaltending w/ reasonable backups (can't forget the backups carried them well enough while Darcy was out) would be close enough for.

 

Levi is not a part of the Sabres goaltending conversation until 2024 at the very earliest.

What Adams is going to do to help his current group of young developing players become a bubble team is the question for this off-season, and that includes implementing a viable plan at goaltender.

[sabresparaavida]

53 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, you are the one assuming here.  Ward won the Conn Smythe in the year that the Sabres lost a D-man after every victory in the 3rd round so though it turns out over his career he was little better than a scrub, he got hot at the right time & on nights he wasn't Gerber (another meh goalie) was good enough.  Also, Ullmark+ goaltending isn't scrub, though it leaves a lot to be desired.  (Your better football analogy would be Mark Rypien who was adequate or worse most of his career but sold his soul to be an actual QB in '91.  Rypien led that team's offense.  Dilfer wasn't bad enough to offset arguably the best D of all time ('85 Bears would like to have a word, but that Ravens D was definitely in the mix) and nobody would ever suggest somebody is intentionally providing only a Dilferesque level of goaltending competency.

How many of the "best goalies in college hockey" have turned into exceptional goalies at the NHL level?  There have been a few through the years going back to Dryden playing for Cornell.  But being the best in the NCAA is about as indicative of NHL success as winning the Hobey Baker is - sometimes it translates, but more often than not it doesn't.  Hellybuck was the last one that kept it up at the next level and his heyday was a year before Eichel was drafted.  And personally, really like Levi's potential.  But until he's here & effective, all it is is potential.  Something UPL had in spades prior to the double hip surgery and Noronnen had in the AHL (speaking of potential unrealized).

Will be very surprised if a significant part of the cap is spent on GTing as this team is filled out while Adams is here.  With the unique cap situation they have presently, it might happen that he spends serious money on a ST guy THIS off-season, but don't really expect it.  Would really like to see Adams FIX the GTing.  Unless Levi pans out, he might never truly do it.  Adams would seem to be quite content w/ Kuemper level goaltending, but he has yet to show he can identify that & land it.  It also remains to be seen if he can build that '06 Canes squad that Kuemper level goaltending w/ reasonable backups (can't forget the backups carried them well enough while Darcy was out) would be close enough for.

 

One thing worth noting though, is that the list of NCAA goalies who did better than Levi’s season last year is just one-Ryan Miller, who was a quite successful NHL goalie. And Miller didn’t do that in his first season as the goaltender for his team.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

One thing worth noting though, is that the list of NCAA goalies who did better than Levi’s season last year is just one-Ryan Miller, who was a quite successful NHL goalie. And Miller didn’t do that in his first season as the goaltender for his team.

And hopefully Adams struck gold & landed a smaller but as effective Carey Price.  But to claim that Adams is/will aggressively target a top notch goalie because he MAY have lucked into a really solid goalie that might be a Sabre 2-3 years from now doesn't pass the smell test.  Which is where Levi entered this conversation.  And past performance indicates he isn't going to put a premium on obtaining a top notch netminder.  He seems more inclined to try to get a solid platoon and will ask his coach to run with the hotter hand, ala Ward-Gerber, or from his youth Edwards-Sauve.

[CTJoe]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Well the Avs are a very talented and powerful team that peaked at the right time and didn’t have to rely on brilliant goaltending but how many cups are won without great goaltending?   Not many.  Most teams don’t get past round 2 without great goaltending.  
 

I prefer that Adams shore up the goaltending and help the young core win more games.  
 

I also think Kuemper is superior to Ullmark. 

Kuemper is an excellent goalie who was excellent in the regular season. Colorado only needed mediocre GT in the playoffs and that's what Kuemper was.  He was mediocre cuz he was playing through an injury

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Well the Avs are a very talented and powerful team that peaked at the right time and didn’t have to rely on brilliant goaltending but how many cups are won without great goaltending?   Not many.  Most teams don’t get past round 2 without great goaltending.  
I prefer that Adams shore up the goaltending and help the young core win more games.  

I also think Kuemper is superior to Ullmark. 

Agreed. But I also believe that Ullmark could've easily played well enough to win a Cup with the Avalanche roster in front of him.

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

How many of the "best goalies in college hockey" have turned into exceptional goalies at the NHL level?  There have been a few through the years going back to Dryden playing for Cornell.  But being the best in the NCAA is about as indicative of NHL success as winning the Hobey Baker is - sometimes it translates, but more often than not it doesn't.  Hellybuck was the last one that kept it up at the next level and his heyday was a year before Eichel was drafted.  And personally, really like Levi's potential.

Just one comment here to avoid confusion for some younger viewers: Ken Dryden was a great NCAA goalie who played for Cornell in the 1960s and then became a Habs legend. Dryden McKay is a TBD (but great collegiate) goalie who just won the Hobey Baker in the 2021-22 season for Minnesota State. The Toronto Marlies signed him to a 2-year AHL contract (he's not a Leafs prospect at this time).

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

One thing worth noting though, is that the list of NCAA goalies who did better than Levi’s season last year is just one-Ryan Miller, who was a quite successful NHL goalie. And Miller didn’t do that in his first season as the goaltender for his team.

I assume your note on surpassing Miller is based on save percentage, where Levi was astounding. Levi should've won both the Mike Richter Award and the Hobey Baker (as Dryden McKay did his past season -- the first goalie to win it since Miller). McKay benefitted from a much better Minn St. team and defense (way fewer shots allowed). But Levi did cool off a bit after he sat out the Olympics pause.

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Agreed. But I also believe that Ullmark could've easily played well enough to win a Cup with the Avalanche roster in front of him.

Just one comment here to avoid confusion for some younger viewers: Ken Dryden was a great NCAA goalie who played for Cornell in the 1960s and then became a Habs legend. Dryden McKay is a TBD (but great collegiate) goalie who just won the Hobey Baker in the 2021-22 season for Minnesota State. The Toronto Marlies signed him to a 2-year AHL contract (he's not a Leafs prospect at this time).

I assume your note on surpassing Miller is based on save percentage, where Levi was astounding. Levi should've won both the Mike Richter Award and the Hobey Baker (as Dryden McKay did his past season -- the first goalie to win it since Miller). McKay benefitted from a much better Minn St. team and defense (way fewer shots allowed). But Levi did cool off a bit after he sat out the Olympics pause.

Don’t you love it that going 5 and 3 while allowing 12 goals in 8 games and 298 shots is “cooling off”?