Sabres Fan in NS Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 Who cares? I mean, really ... who cares? This should not turn into a pissing match concerning John Friggin' Eichel. The John is gone!! Long live the John!! But not here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, JohnC said: In my opinion Marty Biron is one of the better hockey analysts in the game. Don't let his congenial manner mask the fact that he is very knowledgeable about what is going on in the league. He was asked on the Instigator Show which he co-hosts if Cal Petersen, a goalie in college who became a free agent and signed with the LA Kings, was a big loss for Buffalo. He said no. The reason that he gave was that if he would have signed with the Sabres when they had his rights he would not have succeeded here because the organization was in a state of chaos and dysfunction. Jack felt stuck in that unstable franchise situation. I don't blame him for wanting out. This franchise failed him, other players and the fans. I'm confident that now things have turned in a positive direction for Buffalo. The GM in my opinion was right that the old core needed to be flushed out in order for the new core to start anew. In my view the trade worked out for the best for the dealt player and the franchise that sent him to another destination. Well, you know what they say if you’re not part of the solution… Anyway, I was busting your chops a bit knowing your staunch defensive position on Eichel since the saga began last year. Now that we know what pick we are getting from Vegas in the draft, I’ve closed the book on Eichel. He is persona non grata forever after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, you know what they say if you’re not part of the solution… Anyway, I was busting your chops a bit knowing your staunch defensive position on Eichel since the saga began last year. Now that we know what pick we are getting from Vegas in the draft, I’ve closed the book on Eichel. He is persona non grata forever after. then you're a part of the precipitate? 😕 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, JohnC said: Brian Gionta has discretely been critical of Eichel. So what! He wasn't the leader that many people hoped for. He was simply too young and ill-equipped for the role. The idea that I should have to prove a negative that he was a toxic presence is an absurdity. He may not have been an exceptional leader but that doesn't mean that he was a destructive presence in the locker room. I'm not the one making the scathing claim about him as a person. It's not my responsibility to prove the unsubstantiated claims of others. You asked the question. You asked if any past teammates have actually been publicly critical of Eichel. Brian Gionta has. That’s all. If your follow up to that was going to be “So What!!!” then why did you even ask? No one said that you have to prove Eichel isn’t toxic. The question was do we have any evidence that he wasn’t/isn’t? @nfreeman was asking a simple question and it wasn’t an ultimatum of either provide evidence he isn’t or Eichel’s toxic. We discuss things here. nfreeman’s question was not a personal ultimatum laid down to you. It wasn’t even directed to you specifically. It was just a question that could serve to start a discussion. If you don’t want to have that discussion, then don’t, but it’s not ridiculous that other people might want to. And also, the question was “is Eichel toxic?”. Stop trying to reframe it as people scapegoating Eichel as the source of all the Buffalo Sabres organizational issues. That’s not what anyone is saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 28 minutes ago, JohnC said: You can talk about any player you want. And so can I. No problem with that, but you must not read well (at least not my post). I was responding to the request to move on because he isn't here anymore. Doesn't matter if he isn't here. As you said, we all can talk about whoever we went without others telling us we shouldn't by moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Taro T said: then you're a part of the precipitate? 😕 Well he was certainly part of that, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irregularly irregular Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Who cares? I mean, really ... who cares? This should not turn into a pissing match concerning John Friggin' Eichel. The John is gone!! Long live the John!! But not here. Thank you SF. You summed it up perfectly. Yes Eichel left the Sabres carrying with him an unquantifiable stench. I freely admit he was not ever a favorite of mine. I had hoped that he had turned the corner for the better 3 seasons ago, but that season was not confirmed in the following years. I was happy to see him go and with a decent return to make it all the easier to say goodbye. So he is gone and no longer someone we should be putting so much energy and angst into. He's gone. Forget about him. Is John a coach killer? Again, he's gone, so who cares, since it will never be a Sabres coach that he will be or won't be accused of getting fired. Only time will tell what John's legacy as an NHL player shall be. I hope he stays healthy, has as long a career as possible and whatever team he happens to be playing for at the time looses every game they play against the Sabres. 17 minutes ago, Taro T said: then you're a part of the precipitate? 😕 or possibly the vapor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 If it's not slightly funny that the firing of another coach is coincident with the arrival of Jack Eichel, then I don't know what to do. I mean, there were other teams' reddit spaces talking about how Eichel was Buffalo's "real" GM, for crying out loud. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Curt said: You asked the question. You asked if any past teammates have actually been publicly critical of Eichel. Brian Gionta has. That’s all. If your follow up to that was going to be “So What!!!” then why did you even ask? No one said that you have to prove Eichel isn’t toxic. The question was do we have any evidence that he wasn’t/isn’t? @nfreeman was asking a simple question and it wasn’t an ultimatum of either provide evidence he isn’t or Eichel’s toxic. We discuss things here. nfreeman’s question was not a personal ultimatum laid down to you. It wasn’t even directed to you specifically. It was just a question that could serve to start a discussion. If you don’t want to have that discussion, then don’t, but it’s not ridiculous that other people might want to. And also, the question was “is Eichel toxic?”. Stop trying to reframe it as people scapegoating Eichel as the source of all the Buffalo Sabres organizational issues. That’s not what anyone is saying. I not reframing the issue. What is being called for is to disprove a negative characterization. My complaint is how can you disprove a negative when there isn't much evidence that he was a toxic presence? The burden is on those who are making the claim. I'm aware of Brian Gionta's oblique negative comments about him. I heard him comment on this issue on WGR. It wasn't as negative as many are trying to portray. I'm not suggesting Jack was an angel. But if you look at the totality of comments about him from his many former teammates there were very few comments that suggested that he was a negative influence in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Well, you know what they say if you’re not part of the solution… Anyway, I was busting your chops a bit knowing your staunch defensive position on Eichel since the saga began last year. Now that we know what pick we are getting from Vegas in the draft, I’ve closed the book on Eichel. He is persona non grata forever after. I'm not taking any of your comments with any sense of hostility. I agree with you that Jack was not going to be part of the solution. The player understood that and so did the GM. As I have said on other posts moving him was the right thing to do for him and for the Sabres. It gave him an opportunity for a fresh start, and it accelerated the rebuild by adding two good players and hopefully a good prospect. In addition, although the Sabres are in an excellent cap shape it provided the front office more options in adding talent due to the elimination of his high salary. This flailing franchise desperately needed a reset----and it got it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, JohnC said: I not reframing the issue. What is being called for is to disprove a negative characterization. My complaint is how can you disprove a negative when there isn't much evidence that he was a toxic presence? The burden is on those who are making the claim. I'm aware of Brian Gionta's oblique negative comments about him. I heard him comment on this issue on WGR. It wasn't as negative as many are trying to portray. I'm not suggesting Jack was an angel. But if you look at the totality of comments about him from his many former teammates there were very few comments that suggested that he was a negative influence in the room. Listen, none of us can PROVE anything. We are not going to prove that Eichel is good in the locker room or that Eichel is toxic. We won’t. I know it was worded as a negative, but I’m surprised that is such a hang up. I’ll rephrase it if that helps. Do we have any evidence that Eichel is good in the locker room? It’s the same question. You could reply with evidence that Eichel is good in the room. It’s the same as evidence that he isn’t toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Curt said: Listen, none of us can PROVE anything. We are not going to prove that Eichel is good in the locker room or that Eichel is toxic. We won’t. I know it was worded as a negative, but I’m surprised that is such a hang up. I’ll rephrase it if that helps. Do we have any evidence that Eichel is good in the locker room? It’s the same question. You could reply with evidence that Eichel is good in the room. It’s the same as evidence that he isn’t toxic. We are going in circles. Again, what is the evidence that he was a negative influence in the room? There is none other than a few oblique references. Was he a positive influence in the room? I can't say. I'm not the one throwing out character judgments about him. It may be that he simply wasn't an influential presence in the room one way or the other. If that characterization is accurate (don't really know) then that is far from being a toxic presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos1963 Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Weave said: What other player in the league has seen 5 coaches in such a short time? Reinhart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos1963 Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Second Line Center said: In my opinion I think it should be obvious that ROR probably went to ownership and said "get me the f... out of here...I cannot, I will not play with this guy. Can't happen." ROR Instantly wins a SC. They're moving on again this season. He hasn't seemed to wear out his welcome. Eichel Instantly leads team to first non playoff season and coach firing. He joins the team in January? coming off major neck surgery and he's the team leader? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Line Center Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, klos1963 said: He joins the team in January? coming off major neck surgery and he's the team leader? Which forward led them in TOI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 13 hours ago, nfreeman said: Serious question: is there any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Eichel is NOT a destructive, toxic presence? I know a number of his former teammates have spoken in support of him, but I kinda think they're just following the rules, and there are also plenty of his former teammates who have spoken negatively about him. Has he ever been part of a positive team situation? For his 1 year at BU, he led the team in scoring as a freshman and they made it to the NCAA title game, so presumably that was a great season. Does anyone know whether that was regarded as a close-knit team? idk the answer to this but it's interesting to consider. I don't believe the BU team was considered close knit, but I could be wrong. It is kind interesting that when people get away from Jack they get better. We as a team got better, Reinhart was at his best for us without Jack around and was his best this year (although better team it could be argued but still.....) and perhaps the best example is E-Rod. Consider perhaps the difference between Sid's influence and work ethic and that of Jack's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewSabersFinally Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 Jack's a floater, peripheral player with little incentive to hustle in the corners or on the boards, waiting for the gift. Soft back checker to boot. It's not rocket science with this guy. Tired of all the hoopla surrounding this guy...no longer mesmerized by this slacker. Dude will score goals sure, but not much else> 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 4 hours ago, klos1963 said: Reinhart Two in Florida this year with Quennville's resignation so he actually saw more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 16 hours ago, JohnC said: Jack may not have been the best teammate. Even if that is the case to attribute a large role for the failure of this dismally functioning franchise is unfair and unreasonable. Searching for a specific demon when the stench of incompetence oozed throughout the organization, starting with the ownership, makes little sense. The player is gone. Find another bogeyman to pursue! It is the offseason... what else is there to blather on about... plus Jack was sold as the Sabres savior... do I take a bit a pleasure in he and his teams failure after his contribution to the teams past failures...you betcha... so Lol at DeBoer and real or perceived Jack's contribution to this firing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 18 hours ago, Weave said: What other player in the league has seen 5 coaches in such a short time? Both Reinhart and Risto have played for 6 NHL coaches over the past 6 seasons. McCabe would be the same but he got hurt last season and never played for Granato. Its kind of funny that Eichel, Reinhart, Risto and McCabe left the dysfunction of Buffalo and in all 4 cases their new team fired the coach within their first year there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 Please help. I clicked on this Pete DeBoer thread and no sooner than I started to read it I must have taken a foolish turn and ended up down some rabbit hole where everyone wants to talk about some John guy. Can anyone give me directions out of this perpetual Groundhog's Day? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 hours ago, North Buffalo said: It is the offseason... what else is there to blather on about... plus Jack was sold as the Sabres savior... do I take a bit a pleasure in he and his teams failure after his contribution to the teams past failures...you betcha... so Lol at DeBoer and real or perceived Jack's contribution to this firing... Blaming Jack for this team's failure because he was sold as the franchise savior makes little sense. If you want to attach blame for this team's dismal record while he was here, a better target would be the owner and hockey operation. He was not the cause of why this franchise was mismanaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, grinreaper said: Please help. I clicked on this Pete DeBoer thread and no sooner than I started to read it I must have taken a foolish turn and ended up down some rabbit hole where everyone wants to talk about some John guy. Can anyone give me directions out of this perpetual Groundhog's Day? Take the blue pill. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Curt said: Both Reinhart and Risto have played for 6 NHL coaches over the past 6 seasons. McCabe would be the same but he got hurt last season and never played for Granato. Its kind of funny that Eichel, Reinhart, Risto and McCabe left the dysfunction of Buffalo and in all 4 cases their new team fired the coach within their first year there. Well Quenneville's firing had nothing to do with his team's success or coaching ability. It was the fallout of the Blackhawks scandal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Well Quenneville's firing had nothing to do with his team's success or coaching ability. It was the fallout of the Blackhawks scandal. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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