VGK fires DeBoer

[SabresVet]

19 hours ago, nfreeman said:

You are certainly right that proving a negative is tricky to impossible, and that many here have an ax to grind with Eichel.  And as others have noted upthread, the Sabres were highly dysfunctional for Jack's entire time here, so it's unfair to pin everything on him.

But still -- there's more than a little smoke indicating that he's not a great team guy, and Vegas' record got significantly worse immediately upon him joining the lineup, and when he's on a team, coaches get fired.  And we're here on the internet in the offseason speculating as to whether he's a big problem for his teams.  Is it really unreasonable to ask whether anyone's seen any positive indicators about his team spirit?

I agree that Jack has an edge to him and is not naturally personable.  I don't understand why and perhaps it's related to his status as extremely talented starting at a young age.  Also think we all agree that placing the 'C' on him at an early age was a mistake largely because the room needed better examples to younger players.  (I'm pointing at Kane, perhaps Bogosian).

Just don't understand the continual knives out fans have for former players.  I'd like to move on from the past and look toward the future with players here now.

Jack's old news.  

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, grinreaper said:

Please help. I clicked on this Pete DeBoer thread and no sooner than I started to read it I must have taken a foolish turn and ended up down some rabbit hole where everyone wants to talk about some John guy. Can anyone give me directions out of this perpetual Groundhog's Day? 

I am afraid that we will be stuck in this time loop for some years.

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I am afraid that we will be stuck in this time loop for some years.

There will be those that want to continue to discuss it for years.  (Look at how many other topics still get brought up even though their expiration date is seemingly long past.)

But, as long as it doesn't crop up in every thread, and it won't, people that don't want to discuss it can just scroll past it.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 hours ago, NewSabersFinally said:

Jack's a floater, peripheral player with little incentive to hustle in the corners or on the boards, waiting for the gift. Soft back checker to boot. It's not rocket science with this guy. Tired of all the hoopla surrounding this guy...no longer mesmerized by this slacker. Dude will score goals sure, but not much else>

Welcome!!

Sent you a Club Soda that looks like a beer.

17 hours ago, irregularly irregular said:

Thank you SF. You summed it up perfectly.

Yes Eichel left the Sabres carrying with him an unquantifiable stench. I freely admit he was not ever a favorite of mine. I had hoped that he had turned the corner for the better 3 seasons ago, but that season was not confirmed in the following years. I was happy to see him go and with a decent return to make it all the easier to say goodbye.

So he is gone and no longer someone we should be putting so much energy and angst into. He's gone. Forget about him.

Is John a coach killer? Again, he's gone, so who cares, since it will never be a Sabres coach that he will be or won't be accused of getting fired.

Only time will tell what John's legacy as an NHL player shall be. I hope he stays healthy, has as long a career as possible and whatever team he happens to be playing for at the time looses every game they play against the Sabres. 

or possibly the vapor?

Please call me NS.  My friends all do.  Enemies too.  Thanks.

[nfreeman]

34 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

I agree that Jack has an edge to him and is not naturally personable.  I don't understand why and perhaps it's related to his status as extremely talented starting at a young age.  Also think we all agree that placing the 'C' on him at an early age was a mistake largely because the room needed better examples to younger players.  (I'm pointing at Kane, perhaps Bogosian).

Just don't understand the continual knives out fans have for former players.  I'd like to move on from the past and look toward the future with players here now.

Jack's old news.  

This is reasonable, but at the same time, this is a thread about VGK firing their coach.  It's also reasonable that in a thread about the fallout from a disappointing VGK season in which they traded for the Sabres' former franchise player, who left here on bad terms and then criticized the fans when he returned, and for whom the franchise stupidly threw away a decade, there will be some speculation about whether that player is bad medicine.

[Marvin]

9 hours ago, NewSabersFinally said:

Jack's a floater, peripheral player with little incentive to hustle in the corners or on the boards, waiting for the gift. Soft back checker to boot. It's not rocket science with this guy. Tired of all the hoopla surrounding this guy...no longer mesmerized by this slacker. Dude will score goals sure, but not much else>

Welcome to the board!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I believe that John is *bad medicine* and a terrible team guy.  He may get coaches fired and I agree with @Eleven that all this talk and internet fun stuff is funny.

But at the end of the day I have to come back to ... who cares?  Really, who cares?

2 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Welcome to the board!

Oh, Marvin !!  My Marvin !!

Beat you to it ... 😉 😘

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

Just don't understand the continual knives out fans have for former players.  I'd like to move on from the past and look toward the future with players here now.

I think the distinction is that fans invested a lot of themselves in Jack emotionally.  They saw him as the savior of the franchise.  Even when the warts became apparent ("not naturally personable" as you say), the fan base still clung to him as the team's only star.  We rooted for Jack because rooting for him meant rooting for the Sabres, and we desperately wanted him to succeed.  But he was never the knight in shining armor we wanted him to be.  When the rumors and reports came out that he wanted out, it was like being rejected by a lover in terms of emotional impact (such is the attachment of fans to the team).

It was exacerbated by the fact that Eichel played hurt at the end, putting up poor numbers, then was shut down and didn't play at all.

Sam Reinhart was the next closest thing to Jack, but Reino contributed to the team right up to his trade.  In fact his role was expanded when he was used as a center.  But people never pinned their hopes and dreams of the team's success on him, and the fan base could see how the team kind of pushed him out of the nest by giving him bridge deals rather than a long term contract.  But what happened to Sam, happened.  There wasn't the drama about it because Sam is more "naturally personable."  He's not exactly charismatic but neither does his manner provoke a negative reaction.

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I am afraid that we will be stuck in this time loop for some years.

But at least the ROR trade talk is finally settling down, eh?

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I believe that John is *bad medicine* and a terrible team guy.  He may get coaches fired and I agree with @Eleven that all this talk and internet fun stuff is funny.

But at the end of the day I have to come back to ... who cares?  Really, who cares?

Well, here's a somewhat non-schadenfreude reason to care:  if Eichel really is bad medicine, then KA made the right call in identifying him as such and sending him away.  That would reflect quite favorably on KA's judgment, as well as on his guts in seeing it through, since the conventional wisdom would be to hang on to a guy with Eichel's talent.  And it would be nice to know that our GM, for once, is pretty sharp.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

I agree that Jack has an edge to him and is not naturally personable.  I don't understand why and perhaps it's related to his status as extremely talented starting at a young age.  Also think we all agree that placing the 'C' on him at an early age was a mistake largely because the room needed better examples to younger players.  (I'm pointing at Kane, perhaps Bogosian).

Just don't understand the continual knives out fans have for former players.  I'd like to move on from the past and look toward the future with players here now.

Jack's old news.  

It's Schadenfreude after the media blitz from Jack's agents painting the Sabres as ogres. The story went Jack broke his neck and the Sabres were withholding medical treatment. We all know that wasn't the truth but that was the common Twitter take. And Jack and his people didn't have a problem with the media boosting that perception. 

So sorry if I'm enjoying the Eichel bashing now.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Sabres Fan in NS]

45 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, here's a somewhat non-schadenfreude reason to care:  if Eichel really is bad medicine, then KA made the right call in identifying him as such and sending him away.  That would reflect quite favorably on KA's judgment, as well as on his guts in seeing it through, since the conventional wisdom would be to hang on to a guy with Eichel's talent.  And it would be nice to know that our GM, for once, is pretty sharp.

To quote Mr. Burns ...

Excellent !!

Every now and then you come up with some real gems (winkie - winkie) ... first Freddie in the awesome thread and now this.

[mjd1001]

5 hours ago, SabresVet said:

 

Just don't understand the continual knives out fans have for former players.  I'd like to move on from the past and look toward the future with players here now.

Jack's old news.  

No he isn't not to this fan base or this forum. You traded him and got something back for him.  How well you did in that trade, did you 'win' that trade is always going to be a discussion and is not old news.

There are active threads on this forum right now discussing Tage vs O'Rielly and who won or lost that trade. You don't even need a definitive answer, just the conversation, that is what message boards are about.

How well Jack does, or doesn't do, in comparison to what the Sabres got back for him,  is going to be a part of the discussion for years on this forum, and no reason why it should not be.  As long as he is still playing and what the Sabres got back for him are still playing its not old news.

Edited May 17, 2022 by mjd1001

[SabresVet]

9 hours ago, nfreeman said:

This is reasonable, but at the same time, this is a thread about VGK firing their coach.  It's also reasonable that in a thread about the fallout from a disappointing VGK season in which they traded for the Sabres' former franchise player, who left here on bad terms and then criticized the fans when he returned, and for whom the franchise stupidly threw away a decade, there will be some speculation about whether that player is bad medicine.

DeBoer being fired is more correlation and less causality to Jack given that he played less than half the season for Vegas.  If anything, the expectations were upped on the HC and, despite Eichel's delayed arrival, VGK assessed a need to change coaches.  

He did leave on very bad terms and it was perhaps the most complex situation between a disgruntled NHL player and their team in years.  And yes, I'd agree moving the one-time franchise player is a seminal event in any team's history but there's a line when people make it personal versus evaluating it in terms of trade value.

Holding grievances long past their expiration date is a corrosive element to life.  And sports ain't life.  It's entertainment.  

I'll drop this now.

[FogBat]

On 5/16/2022 at 3:03 PM, Curt said:

Brian Gionta has spoken critically of Eichel.  Not pinning all of the organization’s issues on him, but he has been critical.

Petey has also been very harsh on him on ATW.

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, FogBat said:

Petey has also been very harsh on him on ATW.

Craig Rivet has been scathing on Eichel the person, but we were talking former teammates specifically.

[Pimlach]

Four pages and the DeBoer thread is still an Eichel thread. 
 

I never understood the move to replace Gallant with DeBoer.  That move seemed like change for the sake of change.  

DeBoer’s firing is not a surprise though.  Somehow Lehner and his injury is a factor in this firing. 

The irony of it all is Vegas bringing in Lehner and Eichel to get them to a Cup.  

Edited May 20, 2022 by Pimlach

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Four pages and the DeBoer thread is still an Eichel thread. 
 

I never understood the move to replace Gallant with DeBoer.  That move seemed like change for the sake of change.  

DeBoer’s firing is not a surprise though.  Somehow Lehner and his injury is a factor in this firing. 

The irony of it all is Vegas bringing in Lehner and Eichel to get them to a Cup.  

It seems he's a bit like Ted Nolan in that his players love him and his bosses tolerate him in good times and loathe him in bad times.  (Well, they loathe him in good times too, but PITAs that are winning get tolerated much better.)

[mjd1001]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Four pages and the DeBoer thread is still an Eichel thread. 
 

I never understood the move to replace Gallant with DeBoer.  That move seemed like change for the sake of change.  

DeBoer’s firing is not a surprise though.  Somehow Lehner and his injury is a factor in this firing. 

The irony of it all is Vegas bringing in Lehner and Eichel to get them to a Cup.  

I have noticed every so often in this thread it has the feeling fading away, or at least for a few posts Eichel isn't a topic. But then someone brings up his name and it starts again. It doesn't matter how his name gets broad up, but when it is, people run with it.  Every single post with his name in it adds to its continuity.  Your post...bringing up how it is still an 'Eichel thread', is partially contributing to that continuing. (as does me typing this, and the threads previous to this, etc)

[DarthEbriate]

The Concept of the Tank (McEichel) will be us... always.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Here we are on page #4 and it still comes down to ...

Who cares?  Really!  Who cares??

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

The Concept of the Tank (McEichel) will be us... always.

For those wanting the Eichel talk to go away because he isn't here anymore, its just not going to happen.

Is this thread about him? not directly, but when you talk about a coach fired on the team he just joined, of course he will be brought up.
Bigger picture, he is going to be talked about for years on this forum, get used to it, and the topic about him IS relevant. 

He was traded, how he does with his new team and how the players the Sabres got for him peform....that is what fans like to talk about in terms of 'who won the trade'.  With just about  every major trade that happens, the players get discussed. It has been many years and we are still discussing ROR and who 'won' that trade...and I'm fine with it, that is what message boards are for.

Eichel...how he does with Vegas and how Vegas does with him on that team....and Tuch and Krebs.....they will continue to get discussed and honestly that is what message boards are for. Fanbases all across the league and across sports like to talk about trades...the players involved in trades...even well after those players are gone, again, because it is about 'who won the trade' and every move that happens, every coach changed, every winning and losing streak involved will give more to be talked about.  Eichel discussion is not going away and I want to continue to read and talk about it because it is part of who this team is, who it was, and the return for him will be part of this team going forward.

[Digger]

9 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Here we are on page #4 and it still comes down to ...

Who cares?  Really!  Who cares??

And yet here we are both reading this thread.  Ah the off-season.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

13 hours ago, Digger said:

And yet here we are both reading this thread.  Ah the off-season.

I really only skimmed it, but I hear ya.

[Second Line Center]

Evander Kane - watching him dominate brought this on.

ROR

Evan Rodriguez 

Chad Ruhweeedul 

Samson Reinhart 

Zach Bogosian

Brandon Montour

Taylor Hall

Conor Sheary

 

All played here with Jack I've seen be important pieces in these here playoffs.  All thriving in a new environments.  Not all Jacks fault I know.  

I just still can't go over how botched this all was.  

 

And hopefully how quickly KA has figured it out. 

[sabresparaavida]

7 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Evander Kane - watching him dominate brought this on.

ROR

Evan Rodriguez 

Chad Ruhweeedul 

Samson Reinhart 

Zach Bogosian

Brandon Montour

Taylor Hall

Conor Sheary

 

All played here with Jack I've seen be important pieces in these here playoffs.  All thriving in a new environments.  Not all Jacks fault I know.  

I just still can't go over how botched this all was.  

 

And hopefully how quickly KA has figured it out. 

Several of these players have either not done much this year or have not done much these playoffs. 
 

Chard Ruhwedwel- 13 points this season

Erod- started the season hot, then had 9points over the final 36 games. 
 

sheary- 1 point in the playoffs
 

Montour and Bogo, both 3rd pairing D that we’re in a top 4 roll in Buffalo

sure, Kane, Reinhart, Ror, and Hall have played well this year/playoffs, but Hall didn’t overlap with Kane/Ror, and while Kane/Ror were here, Reinhart was still developing. The rest of these pieces were counted on too much to be 2nd liners, or to carry the 3rd line on their own which they do not have the talent for.  This team never had a playoff caliber roster in the past 10 years.