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Sabres Officially Select #9, #16, and #28


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1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Jets GM says they haven’t started talks with Dubois and want to restock their prospects pool.

Would you trade #9 as part of a package for Dubois? The pick would be a main piece if the deal.

I could see the Jets wanting Manitoba boy Geekie if he is there at 9. Winnipeg have trouble keeping players that want to stay there. Getting a young home grown star would be big.

Dubois and Cozens give you a dominating playoff line for the next decade. 

What if Adams goes massive and tries to land Dubois and Hellebuyck?

Probably not going to happen but nothing at 9 enthuses me as much as adding a stud like Dubois.

The problem isn't giving up your first round pick at the nine spot for Dubois. The issue is what else are you giving up? It's likely that the Jets would also want a player such as Mitts, Krebs or Cozens, plus additional piece/s included with the first round pick. The GM has been clear about his emphasis on "draft and develop" approach to the rebuild. He isn't going to sign this particular player and jettison a player such as Mitts or Cozens who they have invested in. It's certainly not guaranteed to happen but it wouldn't be a surprise if both Mitts and Cozens have breakout seasons for us next season. No thank you to a Jet deal for Dubois!

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24 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Sabres didn’t talk with Hughes at the combine for whatever reason…

Reason? Rob Ray’s head would explode with two Jack Hughes in the same game, and Dan D would come up with some cutesy way to differentiate the two. 

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8 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Marek reported it on the 32 Thoughts intermission report. Spoke to Chevaldeoff. I don’t know if the the not starting negotiations with Dubois and restocking the prospect line were connected or separate points as he said them one after the other.

Dubois wanted out of Columbus because of Torts.

They traded him for Laine in a move of young guys needing a new start.

Most players aren’t fans of living in Winnipeg and the dressing room is a mess. It was reported the other day that Scheifele might be staying and he is thought of as the ringleader of that room.

I don’t know if Dubois told him he won’t sign there long term. There is a lot of turmoil there.

I just think he would fit here as a power centre who has great chemistry with Cozens and would like playing for Granato and the culture here. But who knows.

Friedman mentioned on ATW Podcast that that Dubois would sign a 2 year deal with the Jets that would take Him to UFA. Friedman has mentioned in the past He does not want to sign long term with the Jets as most of the WPG Core has 2-4 years left on their contracts. Winnipeg is looking at losing two Top 6 Centers in two years, moving the younger one for assets is a good play.

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

The problem isn't giving up your first round pick at the nine spot for Dubois. The issue is what else are you giving up? It's likely that the Jets would also want a player such as Mitts, Krebs or Cozens, plus additional piece/s included with the first round pick. The GM has been clear about his emphasis on "draft and develop" approach to the rebuild. He isn't going to sign this particular player and jettison a player such as Mitts or Cozens who they have invested in. It's certainly not guaranteed to happen but it wouldn't be a surprise if both Mitts and Cozens have breakout seasons for us next season. No thank you to a Jet deal for Dubois!

Pierre Luc Dubois is 152 days older than Mitts.  He is much further along His Development and has the production that the board hopes Mitts can replicate. 
 

Adams has said that the Sabres Pathway is draft and develop, but He also mentioned this at His End of Season Press Conference 

 

Quote

We will have conversations,” Adams said. “If there something that we do that makes sense that we think is going to put us in a better position, then we’ll do it. What we won’t do is do something we think is just a short-term fix because … that’s not where we’re at right now.

“Part of our plan was to accumulate assets,” Adams said. “So we would expect that we would use them appropriately. But you’ve got to be open. You got to be in the conversations and you have to be ready for any type of thing if the right opportunity presents itself.”

 

Moving Assets for a Bonafide 24 Year Old Top Six Center who fits perfectly into the the Sabres Core Timeline is not out of the Realm of Possibility.
 

Any Trade for PLD would have to come with a minimum of a six year extension especially if the return is going to be Ninth Overall and a Player such as Mitts.  
 

Additional assets could include Johnson, Who’s Current Value to the Sabres is the 62nd Overall Pick in 2024 and/or Portillo, who essentially has zero value to the Sabres Future. 
 

JJP, Quinn, Power are certainly off limits. 
 

Do I think The Sabres will make a trade for PLD, no I do not.  In addition to wanting to get away from Torts, there were reports that PLD wanted to play in a market where He would have more exposure. Attempting to do that in WNY where the Bills dominate is most likely a deterrent to Him signing a long term deal with the Sabres, which makes a trade a moot point. 
 

That being said saying that Adams is not going to jettison a player such as Mitts or Cozens who they have invested in, especially if there is a chance to bring in an established player who fits their timeline, is incorrect. 

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11 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman mentioned on ATW Podcast that that Dubois would sign a 2 year deal with the Jets that would take Him to UFA. Friedman has mentioned in the past He does not want to sign long term with the Jets as most of the WPG Core has 2-4 years left on their contracts. Winnipeg is looking at losing two Top 6 Centers in two years, moving the younger one for assets is a good play.

Pierre Luc Dubois is 152 days older than Mitts.  He is much further along His Development and has the production that the board hopes Mitts can replicate. 
 

Adams has said that the Sabres Pathway is draft and develop, but He also mentioned this at His End of Season Press Conference 

 

Moving Assets for a Bonafide 24 Year Old Top Six Center who fits perfectly into the the Sabres Core Timeline is not out of the Realm of Possibility.
 

Any Trade for PLD would have to come with a minimum of a six year extension especially if the return is going to be Ninth Overall and a Player such as Mitts.  
 

Additional assets could include Johnson, Who’s Current Value to the Sabres is the 62nd Overall Pick in 2024 and/or Portillo, who essentially has zero value to the Sabres Future. 
 

JJP, Quinn, Power are certainly off limits. 
 

Do I think The Sabres will make a trade for PLD, no I do not.  In addition to wanting to get away from Torts, there were reports that PLD wanted to play in a market where He would have more exposure. Attempting to do that in WNY where the Bills dominate is most likely a deterrent to Him signing a long term deal with the Sabres, which makes a trade a moot point. 
 

That being said saying that Adams is not going to jettison a player such as Mitts or Cozens who they have invested in, especially if there is a chance to bring in an established player who fits their timeline, is incorrect. 

I put Cozens as untouchable. Heart and soul leader.

Dubois and Cozens had tremendous chemistry at the Worlds. I would aquire Dubois to play with Cozens on a playoff warrior line.

I don’t see it as likely but if it was Dubois with a worked out extension for #9, Mitts, Johnson I would do it and I like Mitts a lot.

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14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman mentioned on ATW Podcast that that Dubois would sign a 2 year deal with the Jets that would take Him to UFA. Friedman has mentioned in the past He does not want to sign long term with the Jets as most of the WPG Core has 2-4 years left on their contracts. Winnipeg is looking at losing two Top 6 Centers in two years, moving the younger one for assets is a good play.

Pierre Luc Dubois is 152 days older than Mitts.  He is much further along His Development and has the production that the board hopes Mitts can replicate. 
 

Adams has said that the Sabres Pathway is draft and develop, but He also mentioned this at His End of Season Press Conference 

 

Moving Assets for a Bonafide 24 Year Old Top Six Center who fits perfectly into the the Sabres Core Timeline is not out of the Realm of Possibility.
 

Any Trade for PLD would have to come with a minimum of a six year extension especially if the return is going to be Ninth Overall and a Player such as Mitts.  
 

Additional assets could include Johnson, Who’s Current Value to the Sabres is the 62nd Overall Pick in 2024 and/or Portillo, who essentially has zero value to the Sabres Future. 
 

JJP, Quinn, Power are certainly off limits. 
 

Do I think The Sabres will make a trade for PLD, no I do not.  In addition to wanting to get away from Torts, there were reports that PLD wanted to play in a market where He would have more exposure. Attempting to do that in WNY where the Bills dominate is most likely a deterrent to Him signing a long term deal with the Sabres, which makes a trade a moot point. 
 

That being said saying that Adams is not going to jettison a player such as Mitts or Cozens who they have invested in, especially if there is a chance to bring in an established player who fits their timeline, is incorrect. 

With respect to your last comment I strongly disagree that this organization would be willing to trade Mitts or Cozens and a first round pick for a player such as Dubois or a comparable player. From the many comments that the HC has made extolling both players and their potential I don't see it happening. What player do you have in mind that they would consider in an exchange that would also include a first round pick? 

All GMs at their end of season press conferences state that they will consider all options to improve the roster. So I'm not going to over interpret such a pro forma statement.  Odds are very great that both Mitts and Cozens are integral players in this rebuild and will be on the roster next season. 

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1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

Keep all 1st and 2nd rdrs, make the picks, build from within.

I said this in a previous post so I apologize for the repetition but I would be willing to give up our lowest first round pick for a player such as Max Comtois. Assuming there isn't any attitude issue with him, he is a young player who showed promise but had a down year last year. A change of scenery might serve him well and is a player who can contribute right away. This is a player that @dudacek has touted for a long time. 

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

With respect to your last comment I strongly disagree that this organization would be willing to trade Mitts or Cozens and a first round pick for a player such as Dubois or a comparable player. From the many comments that the HC has made extolling both players and their potential I don't see it happening. What player do you have in mind that they would consider in an exchange that would also include a first round pick? 

All GMs at their end of season press conferences state that they will consider all options to improve the roster. So I'm not going to over interpret such a pro forma statement.  Odds are very great that both Mitts and Cozens are integral players in this rebuild and will be on the roster next season. 

Not sure about Mitts, but I suspect Cozens, given what he brings and the high value Granato seems to place on it, may be as close to an untouchable as we have on the team. 

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

With respect to your last comment I strongly disagree that this organization would be willing to trade Mitts or Cozens and a first round pick for a player such as Dubois or a comparable player. From the many comments that the HC has made extolling both players and their potential I don't see it happening. What player do you have in mind that they would consider in an exchange that would also include a first round pick? 

All GMs at their end of season press conferences state that they will consider all options to improve the roster. So I'm not going to over interpret such a pro forma statement.  Odds are very great that both Mitts and Cozens are integral players in this rebuild and will be on the roster next season. 

I love the job Don Granato has done with the whole team. Almost every player has improved this past season under His Tutelage with the exception of Bjork and that’s on the player. HCDG defended Dahlin from His Detractors and gave Him the confidence to become the player everyone saw at the end of the season. I spent time with both  Mittelstadt and Cozens at Their Respective Combines and really like both a lot. 
 

Ultimately Head Coaches have only a portion of control in player personnel decisions. I believe it comes down to from the input for the coaching staff, pro scouting and in the Sabres Case input from the newly revamped Analytics Department.  The latter is going to look at the data which shows that Dubois has been a better player every season of His Career compared to Mitts or Cozens both in counting and advanced stats. Management, Scouting and the Analytics Department carry much greater weight in the decision making process. You mention the potential of Mitts and Cozens, Mittelstadt’s Ceiling is probably below what Dubois is now and that’s if Casey reaches His Full Potential. PLD is a proven asset in the league. 
 

I do have more hope in Cozens and would not move Dylan. IMO He is more likely to have a Tage Style Breakout Year next season. 
 

If a deal is proposed of Mittelstadt, 9OA, Johnson and Portillo, The Sabres really need to make the move, but that’s not going to be enough for PLD.  
 

 I’m not going to dismiss GMKA Comments at the end of the season as typical GM Speak . A Good GM knows when to make the proper moves to improve His Club.
 

I agree both probably will remain Sabres next season as Winnipeg’s Ask will probably be 9OA, Quinn or Peterka plus Cozens which is too much for the Sabres to give up. 
 

And Comtois might be worth the lowest 2023 Second, but He definitely is not worth 28th. His Analytics have not been good for over  three seasons. 

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6 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Management, Scouting and the Analytics Department carry much greater weight in the decision making process. 

I agree both probably will remain Sabres next season as Winnipeg’s Ask will probably be 9OA, Quinn or Peterka plus Cozens which is too much for the Sabres to give up.

Thanks as always for your insight Brawndo!

To the first point it’s about friggen time!  We have some highly respected analytics guys over seeing the process.  They are needed more then ever to keep the momentum of this rebuild going.

to the second point.  Barf.  I’m with you on PLD and agree that a stud who fits the timeline would be a huge add.  But not at the expense of depleting all of our organizational depth that we have finally started building.  

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8 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I love the job Don Granato has done with the whole team. Almost every player has improved this past season under His Tutelage with the exception of Bjork and that’s on the player. HCDG defended Dahlin from His Detractors and gave Him the confidence to become the player everyone saw at the end of the season. I spent time with both  Mittelstadt and Cozens at Their Respective Combines and really like both a lot. 
 

Ultimately Head Coaches have only a portion of control in player personnel decisions. I believe it comes down to from the input for the coaching staff, pro scouting and in the Sabres Case input from the newly revamped Analytics Department.  The latter is going to look at the data which shows that Dubois has been a better player every season of His Career compared to Mitts or Cozens both in counting and advanced stats. Management, Scouting and the Analytics Department carry much greater weight in the decision making process. You mention the potential of Mitts and Cozens, Mittelstadt’s Ceiling is probably below what Dubois is now and that’s if Casey reaches His Full Potential. PLD is a proven asset in the league. 
 

I do have more hope in Cozens and would not move Dylan. IMO He is more likely to have a Tage Style Breakout Year next season. 
 

If a deal is proposed of Mittelstadt, 9OA, Johnson and Portillo, The Sabres really need to make the move, but that’s not going to be enough for PLD.  
 

 I’m not going to dismiss GMKA Comments at the end of the season as typical GM Speak . A Good GM knows when to make the proper moves to improve His Club.
 

I agree both probably will remain Sabres next season as Winnipeg’s Ask will probably be 9OA, Quinn or Peterka plus Cozens which is too much for the Sabres to give up. 
 

And Comtois might be worth the lowest 2023 Second, but He definitely is not worth 28th. His Analytics have not been good for over  three seasons. 

If you are not going to be as dismissive as I am to what the GM says then you have to give substantial weight to the one repeated comment that the GM has made that has become almost a religious chant: I want players who want to be here. Dubois is not a player that fits within that rigid framework. 

The issue in a Dubois vs Mitts exchange goes beyond which player is or will be better. The issue in a trade discussion between these two players comes down to what else on top of the high first round pick are you going to add in a trade discussion. In my opinion what it would take to procure Dubois in a trade is simply too much for the GM. (Which you acknowledged.)  I won't say that it would be impossible to work out a deal but it is extremely unlikely bordering on nearly impossible. 

The Comtois deal that I offered as an example simply reflects my openness to using our third first round pick for a young player who is capable of not only contributing right away but also still falls within the concept of building for the future. 

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8 hours ago, K-9 said:

Not sure about Mitts, but I suspect Cozens, given what he brings and the high value Granato seems to place on it, may be as close to an untouchable as we have on the team. 

In any trade discussion with Winnipeg for Dubois the dispatching team would want in return more than either Mitts or Cozens. Most likely they would also want our highest first round pick plus more. KA would quickly end the discussion and move on. 

I think very highly of both Mitts and Cozens. For me, they are no-touch players who will be foundational players for the Sabres. I'm counting on both of them making significant leap forwards next season. I, like you, rate Cozens higher than Mitts for the intangibles that you seem to allude to. But if Cozens is a 1A player Mitts is not far behind as a 1B player.  

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1 hour ago, Derrico said:

Thanks as always for your insight Brawndo!

To the first point it’s about friggen time!  We have some highly respected analytics guys over seeing the process.  They are needed more then ever to keep the momentum of this rebuild going.

to the second point.  Barf.  I’m with you on PLD and agree that a stud who fits the timeline would be a huge add.  But not at the expense of depleting all of our organizational depth that we have finally started building.  

I guess it all really depends on how each party values the pieces in question.

But when was the last time a player was traded for the type of futures package Brawndo suggested might be the ask?

Duchene, O’Reilly, Carter, Richards, Eichel…there is a track record for what really good 24-year-old centres might cost.

Cozens was a #7 pick and Quinn #8 and I think each has retained his value. And they’re going to demand #9 as well?

I’d would be very surprised if someone paid that much. And angry if it was us.

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3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I guess it all really depends on how each party values the pieces in question.

But when was the last time a player was traded for the type of futures package Brawndo suggested might be the ask?

Duchene, O’Reilly, Carter, Richards, Eichel…there is a track record for what really good 24-year-old centres might cost.

Cozens was a #7 pick and Quinn #8 and I think each has retained his value. And they’re going to demand #9 as well?

I’d would be very surprised if someone paid that much. And angry if it was us.

I wouldn't simply be angry if it were the Sabres; I would be apoplectic! 

A couple of interesting questions associated with Dubois related to the Jets is: what are the Jets plans for this player and what are the player's thoughts about playing for this team? Beyond the rumors I have no clue. 

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3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Some interesting notes from Chad and Combine Interviews.

 

Adams following Nazar, McGroarty and Gauthier around for Their Workouts and Frank Nazar mentioning that the Sabres were one of His Longest Interviews should make @LGR4GMDay 

 

 

Nazar has a higher ceiling than Gauthier. I'd assume the analytics department sees that but still remain cautious. 

Gauthier, is like Kyle Okposo. A rugged big guy with a good shot who wins battles but you don't want him attempting lots of zone entries. He's a jeep wrangler, goes where needed and does what needs doing. 

Nazar, is like Alex Newhook. A fast excellent skater with good hands who attacks the center of the ice with deception. His zone exits and entries are top notch and you want him carrying the puck and he's just okay along the walls. He's a Charger srt, fast but still capable outside of a racetrack. 

Nazar is going to drive play, he's a chaos generator. Gauthier is going to work the cycle and take good shots. I can find Gauthier outside the top 20 in every draft. Nazar, you typically gotta be in the earlier range impo to get that skill set. If I pass on nazar can I get a similar talent at 16, highly unlikely... although Sykora might disagree. 

Depends on what the Sabres want but Nazar generates offense in ways Gauthier probably never will but the inverse isn't true. Nazar scored 14g, 32 pts in his 21 games between January 1 and April 21st. In 5v5 ex goals and assists per 60 for the CHL and USHL, Nazar sits as one of the best in this draft class. In 13 tracked games over 192 minutes, nazar is in the 99th percentile for offense and transition stats. He's in the 68th percentile for defense. 

 

Edited by LGR4GM
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15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Nazar has a higher ceiling than Gauthier. I'd assume the analytics department sees that but still remain cautious. 

Gauthier, is like Kyle Okposo. A rugged big guy with a good shot who wins battles but you don't want him attempting lots of zone entries. He's a jeep wrangler, goes where needed and does what needs doing. 

Nazar, is like Alex Newhook. A fast excellent skater with good hands who attacks the center of the ice with deception. His zone exits and entries are top notch and you want him carrying the puck and he's just okay along the walls. He's a Charger srt, fast but still capable outside of a racetrack. 

Nazar is going to drive play, he's a chaos generator. Gauthier is going to work the cycle and take good shots. I can find Gauthier outside the top 20 in every draft. Nazar, you typically gotta be in the earlier range impo to get that skill set. If I pass on nazar can I get a similar talent at 16, highly unlikely... although Sykora might disagree. 

Depends on what the Sabres want but Nazar generates offense in ways Gauthier probably never will but the inverse isn't true. Nazar scored 14g, 32 pts in his 21 games between January 1 and April 21st. In 5v5 ex goals and assists per 60 for the CHL and USHL, Nazar sits as one of the best in this draft class. In 13 tracked games over 192 minutes, nazar is in the 99th percentile for offense and transition stats. He's in the 68th percentile for defense. 

 

Could Nazar become our own Brayden Point? Offensive dynamo and solid defensively? 
 

Ot would work well if we ended up with both or Nazar + a guy like Gauthier/Snuggerd/etc (big bodied players with talent)

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21 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Could Nazar become our own Brayden Point? Offensive dynamo and solid defensively? 
 

Ot would work well if we ended up with both or Nazar + a guy like Gauthier/Snuggerd/etc (big bodied players with talent)

I hesitate to project any player out to Brayden Point

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Nazar has a higher ceiling than Gauthier. I'd assume the analytics department sees that but still remain cautious. 

Gauthier, is like Kyle Okposo. A rugged big guy with a good shot who wins battles but you don't want him attempting lots of zone entries. He's a jeep wrangler, goes where needed and does what needs doing. 

Nazar, is like Alex Newhook. A fast excellent skater with good hands who attacks the center of the ice with deception. His zone exits and entries are top notch and you want him carrying the puck and he's just okay along the walls. He's a Charger srt, fast but still capable outside of a racetrack. 

Nazar is going to drive play, he's a chaos generator. Gauthier is going to work the cycle and take good shots. I can find Gauthier outside the top 20 in every draft. Nazar, you typically gotta be in the earlier range impo to get that skill set. If I pass on nazar can I get a similar talent at 16, highly unlikely... although Sykora might disagree. 

Depends on what the Sabres want but Nazar generates offense in ways Gauthier probably never will but the inverse isn't true. Nazar scored 14g, 32 pts in his 21 games between January 1 and April 21st. In 5v5 ex goals and assists per 60 for the CHL and USHL, Nazar sits as one of the best in this draft class. In 13 tracked games over 192 minutes, nazar is in the 99th percentile for offense and transition stats. He's in the 68th percentile for defense. 

 

I’m really liking some of the more gritty power forward type of guys in the #9/#16 range (Gauthier, Ohgren, McGroarty, Kasper, Miroshnichenko) because I do think they need some more guys like that, so I’m definitely guilty of pumping their tires.

But, I also think that the NHL team needs more of a dynamic element, not just at ES but also on the PP.  Hopefully Quinn brings a lot of that, but I think another guy with high end puck skills would still be a big help.  So I would also be super happy to get one of Savoie, Nazar, Lekkerimaki, Mesar, Howard.

I think one from each group at 9 and 16 might be perfect.

 

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Nazar has a higher ceiling than Gauthier. I'd assume the analytics department sees that but still remain cautious. 

Gauthier, is like Kyle Okposo. A rugged big guy with a good shot who wins battles but you don't want him attempting lots of zone entries. He's a jeep wrangler, goes where needed and does what needs doing. 

Nazar, is like Alex Newhook. A fast excellent skater with good hands who attacks the center of the ice with deception. His zone exits and entries are top notch and you want him carrying the puck and he's just okay along the walls. He's a Charger srt, fast but still capable outside of a racetrack. 

Nazar is going to drive play, he's a chaos generator. Gauthier is going to work the cycle and take good shots. I can find Gauthier outside the top 20 in every draft. Nazar, you typically gotta be in the earlier range impo to get that skill set. If I pass on nazar can I get a similar talent at 16, highly unlikely... although Sykora might disagree. 

Depends on what the Sabres want but Nazar generates offense in ways Gauthier probably never will but the inverse isn't true. Nazar scored 14g, 32 pts in his 21 games between January 1 and April 21st. In 5v5 ex goals and assists per 60 for the CHL and USHL, Nazar sits as one of the best in this draft class. In 13 tracked games over 192 minutes, nazar is in the 99th percentile for offense and transition stats. He's in the 68th percentile for defense. 

 

Lots of good stuff in here. Disagree with the bolded.

In Alex Newhook’s draft I see two potential Okposos (assuming you mean prime Kyle): Kakko and Podkolzin, and they went 2 and 10. The previous year Svechnikov went at 2 and Tkachuk at 4.

You look at a more established year, 2014. Only guy in the entire draft who fits the profile is Tuch at 18. Virtanen and Ritchie projected to be that guy before busting and they went 6 and 10. Meanwhile, you get Nazars at 15 with Larkin and 75 at Point. Or 25 with Pastrnak if you want to add a play-driving winger.

You want to get a real Wrangler you usually gotta pick those guys high too.

The real question is not type, it’s ceiling: You take Yzerman over Shanahan, but you take Shanahan over Larkin.

Edited by dudacek
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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Lots of good stuff in here. Disagree with the bolded.

In Alex Newhook’s draft I see two potential Okposos (assuming you mean prime Kyle): Kakko and Podkolzin, and they went 2 and 10. The previous year Svechnikov went at 2 and Tkachuk at 4.

You look at a more established year, 2014. Only guy in the entire draft who fits the profile is Tuch at 18. Virtanen and Ritchie projected to be that guy before busting and they went 6 and 10. Meanwhile, you get Nazars at 15 with Larkin and 75 at Point. Or 25 with Pastrnak if you want to add a play-driving winger.

You want to get a real Wrangler you usually gotta pick those guys high too.

The real question is not type, it’s ceiling: You take Yzerman over Shanahan, but you take Shanahan over Larkin.

I don't think you understood what I was saying to be honest. I can find 50pt rugged wingers outside the top 20. Highly skilled play drivers like Nazar, less likely.

Type is part of ceiling. 

I'll add Gauthier is a 50pt guy.

Nazar, he might be an 80pt guy. Gauthier doesn't have the toolbox Nazar does. 

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think you understood what I was saying to be honest. I can find 50pt rugged wingers outside the top 20. Highly skilled play drivers like Nazar, less likely.

Type is part of ceiling. 

So in your view Gauthier doesn’t have any, say, Landeskog type potential?

Can you give me a few examples of the types of players picked outside the top 20 you are referring to?

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

You look at a more established year, 2014. Only guy in the entire draft who fits the profile is Tuch at 18. Virtanen and Ritchie projected to be that guy before busting and they went 6 and 10. Meanwhile, you get Nazars at 15 with Larkin and 75 at Point. Or 25 with Pastrnak if you want to add a play-driving winger.

You want to get a real Wrangler you usually gotta pick those guys high too.

The real question is not type, it’s ceiling: You take Yzerman over Shanahan, but you take Shanahan over Larkin.

Dvorak at 58

Heinen at 116

Kempe at 29

Further I'd add that Gauthier might be a Perlini or Vertanen. Players who are bigger than their peers which helps hide lower skill levels or skills that don't translate as well. I feel good that I can find a guy that does what I think Gauthier will do in the NHL, in future drafts lower than where you might need to take Gauthier. I also think Ohgren is more dynamic but with a similar skill set. 

Just now, dudacek said:

So in your view Gauthier doesn’t have any, say, Landeskog type potential?

Can you give me a few examples of the types of players picked outside the top 20 you are referring to?

No, I don't see Landeskog in Gauthier. I like Gauthier but impo he's being overhyped due to size and a nice shot. I also think he's very coachable which helps. 

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