Have never seen a team have as many goalie injuries in the past 3 seasons as the Sabres have

[inkman]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

ideally they'd be replaced by better 2 way checkers and/or role players. 

Kyle and Zemgus are good defensive line players 

[Marvin]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm sorry, you consider Okposo and Girgensens as valuable assets rather than part of the problem? Okay, we are on different planets. Amazing we haven't won a cup already then. No need to do a thing. 

This is flat out insulting.  I have an answer, but you clearly don't deserve one.  Duly noted.

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Toronto had stunk for the better part of a decade accumulating talent.  The Maple Leafs were not an overnight miracle.

As for tanking, the Sabres are not selling off players who are playing well for scraps and crap like XGMTM did.  Nor did they sign a bunch of washed-up players at inflated prices.  If the Sabres were tanking, they would have career minor leaguers getting 2nd line ice time while solid, reliable performers like Okposo, Girgensons, etc. would have been moved for picks, cap dumps, and roster flotsam.  Instead, as currently made, a healthy line-up has 20 actual NHL players on it -- albeit all about 1 line/pair too high overall.  This is a standard rebuild.  They are not so much trying to lose as prioritising player development and clearing the air of The Failure (The Tank).

The one clear thing GMKA bollixed was goaltending.  Now, we should not expect to go 6 deep in goal, but, as I said elsewhere, Anderson breaking down was eminently predictable.  Honestly, Mike Bales deserves a bonus for getting all 6 guys eventually to play like they almost belong in the NHL.

6 in Buffalo means at least 1 other team has played at least 4 goalies by the pigeonhole principle.  This is nuts.

Why wasn’t Girgs moved the first time then? Ennis? Moulson?

[JoeSchmoe]

Is anyone else a little suspicious of Tokarski's lengthy return from COVID? Could they be dragging this out for any other reasons?

As of Dec 28 he said he was working through a few things with the symptoms... But there hasn't been much since. Was he caught with phoney vax papers? Another nagging injury they're hiding? Anything else? I'm not saying it's not legit, but I'm not putting anything past these guys running the team. You think we'd at least get some kind of update since December.

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-dustin-tokarski-has-lingering-issues-coming-off-covid-19/

[Marvin]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

Why wasn’t Girgs moved the first time then? Ennis? Moulson?

Ennis and Moulson were signed by XGMTM the two previous off-seasons.  He was not trading them.  Girgensons was young enough to be considered part of the solution.

It is worth taking a look at this team compared to the 2013-5 teams.  Also, look at the transactions made during the seasons.  This team is not designed to win first, but it is not designed to get carpet bombed game-in and game-out either like The Tank teams were.

[Drag0nDan]

22 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Is anyone else a little suspicious of Tokarski's lengthy return from COVID? Could they be dragging this out for any other reasons?

As of Dec 28 he said he was working through a few things with the symptoms... But there hasn't been much since. Was he caught with phoney vax papers? Another nagging injury they're hiding? Anything else? I'm not saying it's not legit, but I'm not putting anything past these guys running the team. You think we'd at least get some kind of update since December.

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-dustin-tokarski-has-lingering-issues-coming-off-covid-19/

I mean who knows - completely uncharted territory here.  https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

Breathing issues

Focus and dizziness issues

Heart rate issues

Fatigue issues

Muscle and Joint pain

All of which can be exacerbated with any level of physical exertion.  They don't want him to pass out or worse on the ice, he needs to be back to 100%.  

Edited January 21, 2022 by Drag0nDan

[LGR4GM]

22 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Is anyone else a little suspicious of Tokarski's lengthy return from COVID? Could they be dragging this out for any other reasons?

As of Dec 28 he said he was working through a few things with the symptoms... But there hasn't been much since. Was he caught with phoney vax papers? Another nagging injury they're hiding? Anything else? I'm not saying it's not legit, but I'm not putting anything past these guys running the team. You think we'd at least get some kind of update since December.

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-dustin-tokarski-has-lingering-issues-coming-off-covid-19/

No. Honestly suggesting this is pretty crappy. 

Marco Rossi was out an entire year after getting Covid. 

[Drag0nDan]

On 1/19/2022 at 7:26 PM, PerreaultForever said:

I'm sorry, you consider Okposo and Girgensens as valuable assets rather than part of the problem? Okay, we are on different planets. Amazing we haven't won a cup already then. No need to do a thing. 

Well Okposo is a sunk cost at this point.  He was a poor signing and did not provide return on investment in relation to his contract.  However he's played fine this year in the middle 6.  He's spent time with a lot of players, but his most common linemates have been cozens and girgensons and he's 4th on the team in scoring.  

I suppose you could trade girgensons but I find him to be a fine bottom 6 winger.  He can play center in a pinch, plays PK, can play PP in a pinch if you want a wall/net guy with the 2nd unit.  He's chipped in 7 goals too.  

[LGR4GM]

On 1/19/2022 at 7:26 PM, PerreaultForever said:

I'm sorry, you consider Okposo and Girgensens as valuable assets rather than part of the problem? Okay, we are on different planets. Amazing we haven't won a cup already then. No need to do a thing. 

Kyle Okposo is not part of the problem. If he made 4mil instead of 6 you would never even suggest this. 

[Drag0nDan]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Kyle Okposo is not part of the problem. If he made 4mil instead of 6 you would never even suggest this. 

The problem to me this year:

Goaltending obviously

Injuries just causing constant lineup shuffling

Power play - Olofssons regression has been brutal.  Good to see they're trying some new combinations with all the lineup changes.  

Bottom 6 - they don't need to score a ton but they aren't controlling play at all

Defense - Inconsistencies from Dahlin on down.  Some of the guys have been flat out bad.  Prow was terrible, Hagg has been pretty poor, butcher is brutal in his own end

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No. Honestly suggesting this is pretty crappy. 

Marco Rossi was out an entire year after getting Covid. 

The Bills Tommy Sweeney missed all of the 2020 season with Covid as well.  

[matter2003]

3 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

The problem to me this year:

Goaltending obviously

Injuries just causing constant lineup shuffling

Power play - Olofssons regression has been brutal.  Good to see they're trying some new combinations with all the lineup changes.  

Bottom 6 - they don't need to score a ton but they aren't controlling play at all

Defense - Inconsistencies from Dahlin on down.  Some of the guys have been flat out bad.  Prow was terrible, Hagg has been pretty poor, butcher is brutal in his own end

The Bills Tommy Sweeney missed all of the 2020 season with Covid as well.  

Injuries have been a problem for a long time with this team...I believe I read since 2016, the Sabres are 2nd in the NHL in man games lost to injury. 

Shocking considering how cutting edge the sports science department is for the Bills/Sabres and how the Bills are able to utilize this as a major tool to consistently rank in the bottom 5 in man games lost to injury in the NFL year after year, but the Sabres are the complete opposite.

[Marvin]

10 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Injuries have been a problem for a long time with this team...I believe I read since 2016, the Sabres are 2nd in the NHL in man games lost to injury. 

Shocking considering how cutting edge the sports science department is for the Bills/Sabres and how the Bills are able to utilize this as a major tool to consistently rank in the bottom 5 in man games lost to injury in the NFL year after year, but the Sabres are the complete opposite.

I don't recall who mooted the idea here, but I agreed that, on the whole, lesser average talent means more overall injuries.

IMHO, moreover, the more a players is playing a style he finds unnatural, artificial, or otherwise has a negative opinion of, the more likely he is to be hurt too.

I think the former is correct, albeit anecdotally.  (Overcompensating physically for inferior talent.)  The latter is just my own idea.  (Overly complicated mental processes resulting in physical mistakes.)  Both create psychological negativity which results in players reacting sub-optimally to any given situation, which in turn makes them more likely to be injured.

The Sabres have lacked overall talent for a decade.  Some players really hated some of the coaches.  IMHO, that confluence compounds and reinforces each problem.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Kyle Okposo is not part of the problem. If he made 4mil instead of 6 you would never even suggest this. 

Part of the problem in the sense that he was signed to big money and term to be a top line winger, 20-30 goal scorer and he was a bust in that role. Girgs was a bust as a first round draft pick. I don't hate those guys, but you can add them to the mistakes were made side of the leger. 

9 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Well Okposo is a sunk cost at this point.  He was a poor signing and did not provide return on investment in relation to his contract.  However he's played fine this year in the middle 6.  He's spent time with a lot of players, but his most common linemates have been cozens and girgensons and he's 4th on the team in scoring.  

I suppose you could trade girgensons but I find him to be a fine bottom 6 winger.  He can play center in a pinch, plays PK, can play PP in a pinch if you want a wall/net guy with the 2nd unit.  He's chipped in 7 goals too.  

What I want to see is an end to failed players tossed onto the 4th line like we've done over these years and focus instead on true role players that we need. I want a 4th line that is a tenacious pain in the ass line to play against. Tough and aggravating that can not cost us goals against but can instead spend time in their end wearing down the opposing D as they give the top lines a rest. 

HARD TO PLAY AGAINST has, and still is, the missing ingredient for the Sabres. We won't be good until we get that at least for part of the roster. 

[bunomatic]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Part of the problem in the sense that he was signed to big money and term to be a top line winger, 20-30 goal scorer and he was a bust in that role. Girgs was a bust as a first round draft pick. I don't hate those guys, but you can add them to the mistakes were made side of the leger. 

What I want to see is an end to failed players tossed onto the 4th line like we've done over these years and focus instead on true role players that we need. I want a 4th line that is a tenacious pain in the ass line to play against. Tough and aggravating that can not cost us goals against but can instead spend time in their end wearing down the opposing D as they give the top lines a rest. 

HARD TO PLAY AGAINST has, and still is, the missing ingredient for the Sabres. We won't be good until we get that at least for part of the roster. 

This is what KA has said we will become. I love a speed and skill game but pine for players with a little sandpaper in their game as well. Can we have both of those qualities in some of the guys ? Other teams do. Pretty please😁

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Part of the problem in the sense that he was signed to big money and term to be a top line winger, 20-30 goal scorer and he was a bust in that role. Girgs was a bust as a first round draft pick. I don't hate those guys, but you can add them to the mistakes were made side of the leger. 

What I want to see is an end to failed players tossed onto the 4th line like we've done over these years and focus instead on true role players that we need. I want a 4th line that is a tenacious pain in the ass line to play against. Tough and aggravating that can not cost us goals against but can instead spend time in their end wearing down the opposing D as they give the top lines a rest. 

HARD TO PLAY AGAINST has, and still is, the missing ingredient for the Sabres. We won't be good until we get that at least for part of the roster. 

I don't know how you can call a guy who damned near died and never fully recovered a bust.  Pretty ***** cold way of looking at it.  He's put everything he has onto the ice every year he's been here.  Might be the only player you can say that about in that span.

And Girgs was a 2nd half of the round pick.  Odds always were that he'd be a bottom 6 success.  Any expectations beyond that were probably misguided.

[PerreaultForever]

55 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don't know how you can call a guy who damned near died and never fully recovered a bust.  Pretty ***** cold way of looking at it.  He's put everything he has onto the ice every year he's been here.  Might be the only player you can say that about in that span.

And Girgs was a 2nd half of the round pick.  Odds always were that he'd be a bottom 6 success.  Any expectations beyond that were probably misguided.

Oh please...............he was a bust before the head shot. I don't hate the guy and I have nothing against him as a person, and I know he had a personal battle but the only thing that matters to me in these discussions is the decisions management makes and what ends up on the ice, and the simple fact is he was a bad signing.

Go on, be a fan, keep loving the crap that we've had for over a decade. Keep making excuses, keep on believing if it helps you sleep. 

[Weave]

19 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh please...............he was a bust before the head shot. I don't hate the guy and I have nothing against him as a person, and I know he had a personal battle but the only thing that matters to me in these discussions is the decisions management makes and what ends up on the ice, and the simple fact is he was a bad signing.

Go on, be a fan, keep loving the crap that we've had for over a decade. Keep making excuses, keep on believing if it helps you sleep. 

Sometimes when you disagree you act like a dick.  Just sayin’….

[Drag0nDan]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:00 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Oh please...............he was a bust before the head shot. I don't hate the guy and I have nothing against him as a person, and I know he had a personal battle but the only thing that matters to me in these discussions is the decisions management makes and what ends up on the ice, and the simple fact is he was a bad signing.

Go on, be a fan, keep loving the crap that we've had for over a decade. Keep making excuses, keep on believing if it helps you sleep. 

I mean... hes 4th on the team in scoring.  2nd in even strength assists.  The majority of his ice time has been played with girgs, murray, and cozens - not the thompsons, skinners, and tuchs of the team.  I'm not saying extend the guy but this season, he has NOT been the problem. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

I mean... hes 4th on the team in scoring.  2nd in even strength assists.  The majority of his ice time has been played with girgs, murray, and cozens - not the thompsons, skinners, and tuchs of the team.  I'm not saying extend the guy but this season, he has NOT been the problem. 

I'm talking about his entire tenure here. Why he was signed, what the expectation was for the money. It was a bad signing.

I just think for culture shift it's time to remove every piece of the old era that you can. Unfortunately it's not possible to remove Skinner too, but everything else should go. Maybe even the uniforms.