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GDT: Lightning @ Sabres 7pm ET, Jan 11th 2022, msg-b wgr espn+


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1 minute ago, SwampD said:

It’s okay. We all know the answer.

Arena is empty because everyone knows what this year is and I think the entire fanbase needs a mental break I expect it to be in the 12-15k range next season and ppl buy seasons and Canadians come back. 

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Would it be full if the team were good?

I would be ALOT fuller, no doubt in my mind.

COVID kept me from contacting Taro about his tix last night, but if the team were good there would have been alot more than me in line for those tix, and all the other available tix.

COVID is reducing the size of the market right now, but not nearly as much as the lousy team is reducing it.

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2 hours ago, sabrefanday1 said:

Yes the team is not winning many games right now but they are probably as good as they would have been had we kept jack and Sam and Risto and carried on doing what they have been doing which is of course skate around, maybe score once in a while but otherwise show no real interest. At least now there seems to be some sort of "plan" and "direction" and there seems to be some hope now that did not exist not to long ago.

Doubtful.  They have 15 points in their last 28 games and, all quibbling aside, that's really bad.  We're talking one-third of a season and, applied to a full season is a 44 point year.  

No one thought they'd be in the playoffs or be at 80 points but this 2 month stretch is not a isolated event.  Frankly, hearing about how they have a "plan" or "direction" is nothing different than what 31 other NHL teams have.  

Even taking the lack of W's out of the conversation, the Sabres are not improving as a team on the ice.  They have compete issues even with the new HC and that's cause for concern.  Young teams might lose because they're inexperienced, but shouldn't be flat-lining for a period like this team has. 

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12 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

Doubtful.  They have 15 points in their last 28 games and, all quibbling aside, that's really bad.  We're talking one-third of a season and, applied to a full season is a 44 point year.  

No one thought they'd be in the playoffs or be at 80 points but this 2 month stretch is not a isolated event.  Frankly, hearing about how they have a "plan" or "direction" is nothing different than what 31 other NHL teams have.  

Even taking the lack of W's out of the conversation, the Sabres are not improving as a team on the ice.  They have compete issues even with the new HC and that's cause for concern.  Young teams might lose because they're inexperienced, but shouldn't be flat-lining for a period like this team has. 

Don't agree. They have plenty of very good talent in the pipeline and are ready to turn a corner. How many forwards did they have out last night? 

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16 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Don't agree. They have plenty of very good talent in the pipeline and are ready to turn a corner. How many forwards did they have out last night? 

Not to mention the fact that they were playing a vastly superior team.  A back-to-back Stanley Cup defending team with a more than realistic chance to be the first team to win 3 in a row since the early 1980s.

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3 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

Not to mention the fact that they were playing a vastly superior team.  A back-to-back Stanley Cup defending team with a more than realistic chance to be the first team to win 3 in a row since the early 1980s.

And the Sabres are playing like once a week, hardly a way to get in game shape 

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9 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

Not to mention the fact that they were playing a vastly superior team.  A back-to-back Stanley Cup defending team with a more than realistic chance to be the first team to win 3 in a row since the early 1980s.

A Lightning team they demolished 5-1 earlier this season. 
 

The quibbling really needs to find an end this season.  Because at some point fans should expect to see a team competing for 60 minutes each night with some more wins coming from that effort. 

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6 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

A Lightning team they demolished 5-1 earlier this season. 
 

The quibbling really needs to find an end this season.  Because at some point fans should expect to see a team competing for 60 minutes each night with some more wins coming from that effort. 

Your first point does not counter mine.

I agree with your second point completely.  I think they are close.  I think there was reasonable effort last night.

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23 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

A Lightning team they demolished 5-1 earlier this season. 
 

The quibbling really needs to find an end this season.  Because at some point fans should expect to see a team competing for 60 minutes each night with some more wins coming from that effort. 

I want you to compare the rosters and get back to us. 

Here's the thing if Buffalo plays at 100% effort they can hang with Tampa at 80% effort. 

If Buffalo has 90% effort but Tampa comes in at 100%, you lose. 

Last night we got about 75% effort and the results speak for themselves. You're watching a team that does not have enough talent. No one goes at 100% all the time consistently but we don't have the talent level to be competitive otherwise. 

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3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I want you to compare the rosters and get back to us. 

Here's the thing if Buffalo plays at 100% effort they can hang with Tampa at 80% effort. 

If Buffalo has 90% effort but Tampa comes in at 100%, you lose. 

Last night we got about 75% effort and the results speak for themselves. You're watching a team that does not have enough talent. No one goes at 100% all the time consistently but we don't have the talent level to be competitive otherwise. 

Of course, everyone knows TB is more talented and this time had Kucherov.  

It doesn't justify their 1-10-1 home record these past 2 months with their lone win against fellow bottom-feeder Montreal. 

A lack of talent should never inhibit the effort a team demonstrates.  

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9 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

Of course, everyone knows TB is more talented and this time had Kucherov.  

It doesn't justify their 1-10-1 home record these past 2 months with their lone win against fellow bottom-feeder Montreal. 

A lack of talent should never inhibit the effort a team demonstrates.  

First, the Sabres roster was the one I wanted you to look at. There are what? 5 starters and 2 starting goalies out for this team currently. The defense is a rotating cast of castoffs and Dahlin. Thank god we have Dahlin because everyone else looks incompetent back there. 

Second, there is a concept and this board is notorious for promoting it, that a team will play at the same effort level night in and night out in the 82 game season. They won't. No team from Colorado to Tampa to Boston or Florida plays with the same effort. The problem is when Tampa gives 80% effort they have the talent level to be just fine, Buffalo however, in order to beat tampa, needs Tampa to come in at 80%, Sabres have to give 100% and they have to get lucky. It is a talent deficiency, you can't show much effort when your talent level is a 5 and you are up against a 10. Even if you are out there at 100% you will look like crap. The Sabres current issue is the defense is half out and there is not chemistry between what is left. Further half the forwards are out and that plays into rotating and coverages too. ON TOP OF THAT... the goaltending is broken and the replacements are trash. It is a perfect storm of bad and it isn't just simply "play harder, show more effort". 

You know why Jack Quinn was noticeable last night, because his effort combined with his skill level. Wanna know why Bjork is useless? His effort can be 100% but his skill level is still below NHL average. 

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1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

They have compete issues even with the new HC and that's cause for concern.  Young teams might lose because they're inexperienced, but shouldn't be flat-lining for a period like this team has. 

Team is young… is not overworked… yet plays weak in 1st period last several games… and not much better after a locker room break and coach’s messaging between periods 1-2… Only seem to come alive in 3rd when behind a couple or more goals… and trying to save face… This is on Granato and his staff… Where is the sense of urgency??… 

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7 minutes ago, Believer said:

Team is young… is not overworked… yet plays weak in 1st period last several games… and not much better after a locker room break and coach’s messaging between periods 1-2… Only seem to come alive in 3rd when behind a couple or more goals… and trying to save face… This is on Granato and his staff… Where is the sense of urgency??… 

So in the last several games where half the defense and almost the entire top 6 has been out, we've looked bad. That's what you're telling me?

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To those brave optimists/defenders of the franchise here:  I appreciate the optimism and the esprit de corps.  And I agree that this team can't hang with a TB team that brings its A game (and started Vasilefsky, btw).

But I go back to what I said yesterday in another thread:  the Sabres seem to come out every game now and get utterly dominated from the opening puck drop, find themselves down 2-0 or worse early on, and then maybe kinda climb back into it, or not.

Something is wrong, and it's not just talent or covid/injury absences (which every team is dealing with, btw).  There are at least 20 teams in the NHL that the Sabres should be able to mount a competitive effort against -- but here we are, having lost 10 out of 11 at home and 23 out of 28 overall.

I like DG, but I gotta ask:  does anyone think their record wouldn't be substantially better with Bruce Boudreau behind the bench?

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27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's what you're telling me?

What I’m telling you is… the lineup on the ice comes out flat in 1st periods too often… and don’t get going until 3rd periods too often… It is an effort issue… It is a coaching issue… Has nothing to do with injuries… These players are paid professionals, most young… and none overworked recently… After last night’s humiliating effort… it is hard to believe Granato gave the team an optional skate today… Hard to believe Granato wasn’t  compelled to get their attention the morning after… 

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2 minutes ago, Believer said:

What I’m telling you is… the lineup on the ice comes out flat in 1st periods too often… and don’t get going until 3rd periods too often… It is an effort issue… It is a coaching issue… Has nothing to do with injuries… These players are paid professionals, most young… and none overworked recently… After last night’s humiliating effort… it is hard to believe Granato gave the team an optional skate today… Hard to believe Granato wasn’t  compelled to get their attention the morning after… 

We didn't even make it 41 games before the problem was "granato" 

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31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

To those brave optimists/defenders of the franchise here:  I appreciate the optimism and the esprit de corps.  And I agree that this team can't hang with a TB team that brings its A game (and started Vasilefsky, btw).

But I go back to what I said yesterday in another thread:  the Sabres seem to come out every game now and get utterly dominated from the opening puck drop, find themselves down 2-0 or worse early on, and then maybe kinda climb back into it, or not.

Something is wrong, and it's not just talent or covid/injury absences (which every team is dealing with, btw).  There are at least 20 teams in the NHL that the Sabres should be able to mount a competitive effort against -- but here we are, having lost 10 out of 11 at home and 23 out of 28 overall.

I like DG, but I gotta ask:  does anyone think their record wouldn't be substantially better with Bruce Boudreau behind the bench?

Demko was playing goalie this year at a level above any of Buffalo's goaltenders except Anderson (very small sample size). And since Boudreau arrived and kickstarted a more-skilled and much-deeper and veteran Vancouver team, Demko's been on fire. Boudreau could've helped the Sabres, true. But with the lack of talent/depth and the AHL-level goaltending... any coach would be watching this team crumble.

Now... that doesn't excuse the lack of fight in a team when both of their goalies get hurt. Instead... just a bunch of profanity between the benches between the 2nd and 3rd periods. But nothing done. Not a single attempted big hit. No fight. Nothing to change the tone or culture. And that is on Granato. He cannot (and should not) reward or incentivize attempt to injure or goonery, but he should absolutely set the expectation that you defend your goalie and teammates. And encourage a fight now-and-then. Lindy-style. Just to liven things up.

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19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We didn't even make it 41 games before the problem was "granato" 

The problem is consistent effort lately… especially early in games… Whatever messaging Granato is sending the team about their effort… isn’t getting through to the bulk of them… Granato needs to shake the bottle… to get their attention… Giving them an optional skate the day after a lopsided defeat??… Let’s give the Coach the benefit of the doubt… Maybe it was his  test to see who showed up…

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

First, the Sabres roster was the one I wanted you to look at. There are what? 5 starters and 2 starting goalies out for this team currently. The defense is a rotating cast of castoffs and Dahlin. Thank god we have Dahlin because everyone else looks incompetent back there. 

Second, there is a concept and this board is notorious for promoting it, that a team will play at the same effort level night in and night out in the 82 game season. They won't. No team from Colorado to Tampa to Boston or Florida plays with the same effort. The problem is when Tampa gives 80% effort they have the talent level to be just fine, Buffalo however, in order to beat tampa, needs Tampa to come in at 80%, Sabres have to give 100% and they have to get lucky. It is a talent deficiency, you can't show much effort when your talent level is a 5 and you are up against a 10. Even if you are out there at 100% you will look like crap. The Sabres current issue is the defense is half out and there is not chemistry between what is left. Further half the forwards are out and that plays into rotating and coverages too. ON TOP OF THAT... the goaltending is broken and the replacements are trash. It is a perfect storm of bad and it isn't just simply "play harder, show more effort". 

You know why Jack Quinn was noticeable last night, because his effort combined with his skill level. Wanna know why Bjork is useless? His effort can be 100% but his skill level is still below NHL average. 

I watched Bjork in particular last night before I stopped watching.  He isn’t good at anything.  Same goes for Butcher, Miller, Hayden, Eakin, Jankowski, and others I’m probably forgetting.  Olofsson is clearly playing injured but I noticed on his breakaway, he’s really ***** slow or his injury is hampering his skating as well. 

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9 minutes ago, inkman said:

I watched Bjork in particular last night before I stopped watching.  He isn’t good at anything.  Same goes for Butcher, Miller, Hayden, Eakin, Jankowski, and others I’m probably forgetting.  Olofsson is clearly playing injured but I noticed on his breakaway, he’s really ***** slow or his injury is hampering his skating as well. 

Totally agree with that last sentence.   He should be getting the same treatment Reinhart got with that breakaway display.  He had no wheels at all.

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11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

he should absolutely set the expectation that you defend your goalie and teammates.

Think Granato promotes this… but not in Ruff-like words… Granato is a development coach who spent the bulk of his coaching career with teenagers and young adults… not men… He is a nurturer… You hear it in his media messaging… Is it time for our youngsters to be treated like men… so they can act like men when challenged??… This is the NHL… not Juniors… It is new to most of his roster and to him as a Head Coach as well… Not suggesting Granato can’t be the long term solution in Buffalo… Just suggesting… like the kids… he needs to elevate his game, too…

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3 hours ago, SabresVet said:

A Lightning team they demolished 5-1 earlier this season. 
 

The quibbling really needs to find an end this season.  Because at some point fans should expect to see a team competing for 60 minutes each night with some more wins coming from that effort. 

I think what we are seeing is the extent of the belief some have in our prospect system. Only an exceptionally strong belief in such could allow such optimism for a team that has lost 23 of it's last 28 games. They have 5 wins in 3 months. I understand the belief in the prospects even if, for me, it has a bit of a "deja vu" feel. For me, my belief in the prospects (it looks like a very strong group) isn't as much of an issue as the baseline we are going to ask them to climb up from - it looks much lower than I'd have wanted it to be, and that's even with low expectations.

It doesn't cause me to think the plan can't work, but certainly it seems it'll take longer than many thought - maybe more in line with @LGR4GM's timeline. If things work out, I'd say his timeline is pretty spot on. That it's so drawn out feeds into the concerns of why I had doubts it'd work, from the beginning. But there's no doubt an exceptionally slow back to credibility is plausibly the most likely outcome of the good outcomes. 

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

Of course, everyone knows TB is more talented and this time had Kucherov.  

It doesn't justify their 1-10-1 home record these past 2 months with their lone win against fellow bottom-feeder Montreal. 

A lack of talent should never inhibit the effort a team demonstrates.  

I really think what you are seeing is a greater talent gap than even expected. 

More so than a lack of effort 

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

To those brave optimists/defenders of the franchise here:  I appreciate the optimism and the esprit de corps.  And I agree that this team can't hang with a TB team that brings its A game (and started Vasilefsky, btw).

But I go back to what I said yesterday in another thread:  the Sabres seem to come out every game now and get utterly dominated from the opening puck drop, find themselves down 2-0 or worse early on, and then maybe kinda climb back into it, or not.

Something is wrong, and it's not just talent or covid/injury absences (which every team is dealing with, btw).  There are at least 20 teams in the NHL that the Sabres should be able to mount a competitive effort against -- but here we are, having lost 10 out of 11 at home and 23 out of 28 overall.

I like DG, but I gotta ask:  does anyone think their record wouldn't be substantially better with Bruce Boudreau behind the bench?

I agree with your post in general but as for the last line: Not really? 

Dunno how many times we are going to go here with coaches. Is Granato a worse coach than Krueger? His record is worse. And Krueger's was a very low bar. It's the roster. The roster has less talent than one would even think - there's commentary in the GDT's about how poor the bottom 6 is - but the top 6 is just as relatively bad. We see the name "Cozens" and it looks fine, but he's not playing a spot in the lineup equivalent to his abilities. IMO his upside softens the perception when in reality, the roster is inferior, as it stands, top to bottom, potentially to a man? Is there a player in spot in our lineup that is NHL average in that position besides Dahlin?

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16 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

It wasn't that bad. There have been much, much worse. Maroon got blocked a bit by Joker, then fell over Subban from behind. But --- Tampa is up by 5 goals at that point. Someone just tumbled your backup goalie and UPL is already hurt. There has to be some scrap and fight and defending your goalie.

So, IOW, RJ kinda embellished what happened.

BTW, I hated hearing Bogo’s name being mentioned last night during the PBP

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