Nylander traded to the Pens

[MDFan]

Nylander always struck me as entitled and possessing of a very poor work ethic.  I was not all surprised he failed once those traits became apparent.  I don’t know if he showed up like that or the organization somehow taught him that behavior, but my bet would be in the former given changing organizations did not help him.  

[inkman]

18 hours ago, Thwomp! said:

Cal (little bro) O'Reilly ruined him.

It may have discouraged him but I’d hope a little adversity could drive a player to succeed.

 

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

I really try to avoid generalizations in life, but I get swept up into this at times.  Now that KA seems to be assembling a real team (analytically, etc.), maybe we can begin to consistently hit on our picks, top to bottom.  It feels a bit hopeless and like a crap shoot when we've had who we've had in key leadership positions, even in the recent past.

I think "hitting top to bottom" too much to ask for. The draft is still fraught with peril, but going from 30% success to 40% success means one more player every other year or something, which doesn't sound like much but means that you become a team that has players pushing to get into the NHL, which makes trade capital to fill in holes where they come up.

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, MattPie said:

I think "hitting top to bottom" too much to ask for. The draft is still fraught with peril, but going from 30% success to 40% success means one more player every other year or something, which doesn't sound like much but means that you become a team that has players pushing to get into the NHL, which makes trade capital to fill in holes where they come up.

It isn't just "hitting" it is also what are you getting from that 30% you hit on,  Zemgus or Pominville 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, MattPie said:

I think "hitting top to bottom" too much to ask for. 

Gotta fill all the holes 

[MattPie]

29 minutes ago, inkman said:

Gotta fill all the holes 

[Ogre]

5 hours ago, MDFan said:

very poor work ethic.

I don’t think this was the case with Alex. I get to games early and watch warmups. He was always fist man out on the ice and the last man off.

My take? He played a timid game and no amount of talent will ever overtake fear.

[Ogre]

22 hours ago, Thwomp! said:

Cal (little bro) O'Reilly ruined him.

The story about being punked by his teammates making him clean the bus was real. I posted it from Amerks game notes.

I have no idea about the story about Cal not being a good host? No idea where that one came from. I always assumed it was rumor more than anything else. 

IMO Alex’s failure was his own.

[Ogre]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Gotta fill all the holes 

[PerreaultForever]

Watch him score 30 goals as Crosby's winger 🙂

 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Watch him score 30 goals as Crosby's winger 🙂

 

I think I’d be happy for him.  Hopefully he gets called up so he can try.  
 

[Thwomp!]

Just scanned the old Nylander thread.  He was hazed and mistreated.  I think that's something almost every athlete goes through.  Some respond to it, some don't.  Cal O'Reilly is an ***** and not a good choice as a mentor as well.

I think Chicago could have been, and was, a change of scenery where he seemed to do a bit better, but I'm not sure his game ultimately will work in the NHL without a lot of other pieces making it all work.  Pittsburgh will be interesting if he gets a chance.  They love their cheap reclamation projects.  Just read an article somewhere about how good of a well rounded and valuable piece Evan Rodrigues has become for them.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Thwomp!
Always forget he spells his name with an "s"

[Drag0nDan]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:25 PM, Digger said:

I don't have much interest in Nylander anymore since we traded him but I do always look at talented players and wonder what it is that they are missing.  He had (has) a great deal of raw talent (skating, shooting).  Is it Lack of Character?  Poor Work Ethic?  Arrogance?  To me he should have had the talent to play in the NHL but he looks like he will not.

Don't get me wrong.  I hated it when we picked him.  I was convinced we were taking Chychrun or Sergachyov because we really needed more D-men.  Why did he fail?

I usually look at it like in the NHL its faster, and space is harder to come by.  Skating and shooting needs to happen faster - and you need to create space.  You can't stickhandle through NHL defenses as easily, and while shooting/stickhandling/skating are the big traits you want in a 1st round pick he never seemed to develop an overall game. Those traits are the raw skills, but how you use your stickhandling as an NHL player is a lot different sometimes than what you did in Juniors.  

A lot of this is learning what to do when you don't have the puck on your stick.  I always noticed this with pominville in his second year, he found a way to put himself into better areas.  You also need to improve along the walls, as a ton of NHL hockey occurs there.  If you can't forecheck, or keep the puck in the zone you won't see a ton of ice time - coaches want to tilt the ice to the offensive end.  You also need to backcheck effectively to get put on lines with quality players, as getting out in transition is another way to tilt the ice in your favor.  

So without having watched him in some time, my guess is along the lines of these things.  A couple of injuries hurt him too.  

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, Thwomp! said:

Just scanned the old Nylander thread.  He was hazed and mistreated.  I think that's something almost every athlete goes through.  Some respond to it, some don't.  Cal O'Reilly is an ***** and not a good choice as a mentor as well.

I think Chicago could have been, and was, a change of scenery where he seemed to do a bit better, but I'm not sure his game ultimately will work in the NHL without a lot of other pieces making it all work.  Pittsburgh will be interesting if he gets a chance.  They love their cheap reclamation projects.  Just read an article somewhere about how good of a well rounded and valuable piece Evan Rodrigues has become for them.

IMPO Nylander is the personification of what was wrong with the Sabres up until basically now. They lacked heart. Nylander has lots of skills but the overwhelming desire to shove that skill down and opponents throat is lacking. Dahlin is finally tapping into that and it does take confidence but we've never seen signs of that with Nylander. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I usually look at it like in the NHL its faster, and space is harder to come by.  Skating and shooting needs to happen faster - and you need to create space.  You can't stickhandle through NHL defenses as easily, and while shooting/stickhandling/skating are the big traits you want in a 1st round pick he never seemed to develop an overall game. Those traits are the raw skills, but how you use your stickhandling as an NHL player is a lot different sometimes than what you did in Juniors.  

A lot of this is learning what to do when you don't have the puck on your stick.  I always noticed this with pominville in his second year, he found a way to put himself into better areas.  You also need to improve along the walls, as a ton of NHL hockey occurs there.  If you can't forecheck, or keep the puck in the zone you won't see a ton of ice time - coaches want to tilt the ice to the offensive end.  You also need to backcheck effectively to get put on lines with quality players, as getting out in transition is another way to tilt the ice in your favor.  

So without having watched him in some time, my guess is along the lines of these things.  A couple of injuries hurt him too.  

When I look at scouting reports and video now, I want to see prospects who do things to extend passing windows, get themselves space, or prepare space for where they want to go (ie manipulate the defender). It was one reason I really liked Eklund last draft, he would do things like engage a defender before he recieved a pass to open the space he wants to go into. At the NHL level you really need that ability and it has been one of the frustrating things about Cozens, he isn't there yet with his ability to control the space around him.