Eichel vs McDavid

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

My bounce on Sabres losing Eichel is I felt years ago they lost the day the tank only got them the #2 pick and Eichel.  With Oilers/Sabres coming soon, wanted to put out there the only worthy prize for the tank season was McDavid , and they missed.   McDavid is a one of kind talent and 5x the player Eichel is.   I watch Oilers highlights whenever I can to marvel at the guy's talent.

So I have no qualms losing Eichel, as the Sabs lost this one years ago.  

[PerreaultForever]

ummmmmmmmm.................yes?

[Thorny]

When the Sabres decide to convert their roster into a barren wasteland to achieve Eichel, they had already lost. 

Eichel was a *more than fine* piece to add to a roster that...didn't actually destroy itself to get him. 

That's the rub. 

[Mustache of God]

Yes, McDavid was the prize, but it doesn't mean he's been the savior. An individual player won't win you any championships, you need a competent front office to build around your core. They've only made the playoffs twice since McDavid's been drafted and haven't done much with that opportunity.

 

Edmonton Oilers Postseason Results

Year Record Result

2021 35-19-2 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)

2020 37-25-9 Missed Playoffs

20193 5-38-9 Missed Playoffs

2018 36-40-6 Missed Playoffs

2017 47-26-9 Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)

2016 31-43-8 Missed Playoffs

2015 24-44-14 Missed Playoffs

2014 29-44-9 Missed Playoffs

2013 19-22-7 Missed Playoffs

2012 32-40-10 Missed Playoffs

2011 25-45-12 Missed Playoffs

2010 27-47-8 Missed Playoffs

2009 38-35-9 Missed Playoffs

2008 41-35-6 Missed Playoffs

2007 32-43-7 Missed Playoffs

2006 41-28-13 Lost Stanley Cup Final (Won 3 Rounds)

[Sabel79]

3 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

2006 41-28-13 Lost Stanley Cup Final (Won 3 Rounds)

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Kevyn Adams...

The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems 

[bunomatic]

This comparison was never fair to Eichel. He always was the consolation prize. He’s a damn fine player in his own right but he’s no McDavid.

[Mustache of God]

I just pulled the trigger on tickets to tomorrow's game specifically so I could see McDavid skate in person for the first time.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

This has got to be undisputable proof that tanking is the worst possible idea ever.

I expect 30 more years of wandering in the desert.  Give or take a year, or two.

[Mustache of God]

2 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

This has got to be undisputable proof that tanking is the worst possible idea ever.

I expect 30 more years of wandering in the desert.  Give or take a year, or two.

Chicago & Pittsburgh would like a 2 or 3 words each.

[Ruff Around The Edges]

Said this 1000 times and will say it 1001:

The tank for McDavid/Eichel was absolutely the best move.

The steps AFTER the tank is what gave the perception that the tank was wrong.

[Hoss]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

When the Sabres decide to convert their roster into a barren wasteland to achieve Eichel, they had already lost. 

Eichel was a *more than fine* piece to add to a roster that...didn't actually destroy itself to get him. 

That's the rub. 

Any team drafting second overall aside from teams that have a lucky bounce of the balls or major injuries is going to be terrible.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

Chicago & Pittsburgh would like a 2 or 3 words each.

I don't know if either really did what the Sabres did.  Chicago, maybe.  Pittsburgh I don't think so for either of their saviors.

Anyway, I know the arguements are out there, but the point is tanking doesn't work far more often than it does.  And when it doesn't it doesn't in spectacular fashion.

Let's agree to not take this any further. It's all water over the bridge at this point.  Let's just wallow in our misery.

[Hoss]

4 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

I don't know if either really did what the Sabres did.  Chicago, maybe.  Pittsburgh I don't think so for either of their saviors.

Anyway, I know the arguements are out there, but the point is tanking doesn't work far more often than it does.  And when it doesn't it doesn't in spectacular fashion.

Let's agree to not take this any further. It's all water over the bridge at this point.  Let's just wallow in our misery.

I think the front office leadership needs to be the same before and after the tank begins. You need a plan from the second you start selling off every asset and see that plan through after you’ve built a roster.

[Weave]

19 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

Chicago & Pittsburgh would like a 2 or 3 words each.

Neither of which tanked in the last 20 years.

Remember when the fanbase here was talking ourselves into believing that Jack was the better leader and would have more success than McD?

Hooboy was that a good time.

[PerreaultForever]

6 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I think the front office leadership needs to be the same before and after the tank begins. You need a plan from the second you start selling off every asset and see that plan through after you’ve built a roster.

and patience. 

First, the tank worked when there was no lottery. With a lottery, well, you see what happens. 

Second, you don't trade all your picks away for an instant surge like Murray did. You build the team with those picks.

 

I'm really hoping this time we grow with those prospects we have and don't panic and start moving them out . I don't think we will do that this time. I think they've given KA a longer time line, but we shall see. 

 

I guess the question on the McDavid/tank thing is IF we'd drafted Draisaitl instead of Reinhart and gotten McDavid would we have been in the playoffs and would everything be good? Edmonton certainly hasn't gotten there (yet) . I guess we'd have been better, but idk I suspect we'd have a bad D and some other problems and maybe cap problems. 

 

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

This has got to be undisputable proof that tanking is the worst possible idea ever.

I expect 30 more years of wandering in the desert.  Give or take a year, or two.

You're drawing the wrong conclusion. Tanking is fine as long as you also fix your drafting. Edmonton didn't and Buffalo didn't

[msw2112]

A few comments:

• Tanking can work if you draft, develop and coach properly.  If you don't, it can set you back years.
• It works better in non-lottery sports, as you are guaranteed your draft slot.
• It worked magnificently in baseball for the Astros (despite the fact that they cheated and I hate them, they have been to 3 World Series and "won" one).
• It worked OK for the Philadelphia 76ers.  They have become a consistent contender and one of the better teams in the conference/league, but it has not put them over the top (0 NBA Finals appearances since their tank).
• It did work for the Crosby-Malkin Penguins and the Toews-Kane Blackhawks.  No so much for the Eichel-Reinhart Sabres and the jury is still out on the McDavid-Draisaitl Oilers.

As mentioned above, Tim Murray openly stated that he was "accelerating the rebuild" and that was the kiss of death.  He traded away draft picks and assets for a quick payoff, that did not, and has not, paid off.  The Sabres currently have some nice pieces in Rochester, some top talent in the NCAA and juniors/Europe/Russia, a few good young players on the current roster, and a ton of draft capital coming up (3 first rounders next year, or 2 next year and 2 the following year, depending on Vegas).  The opportunity to conduct a "proper rebuild" is there for the taking.  The current team is NOT tanking.  They are TRYING TO WIN and establish a solid culture, while developing young prospects.  Given the current state of the roster, they just won't win very much.  This is very differerent from the pre-Eichel/McDavid draft where we cheered loudly when they lost an OT game to Arizona (and rightfully so).

Edited November 11, 2021 by msw2112

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

My bounce on Sabres losing Eichel is I felt years ago they lost the day the tank only got them the #2 pick and Eichel.  With Oilers/Sabres coming soon, wanted to put out there the only worthy prize for the tank season was McDavid , and they missed.   McDavid is a one of kind talent and 5x the player Eichel is.   I watch Oilers highlights whenever I can to marvel at the guy's talent.

So I have no qualms losing Eichel, as the Sabs lost this one years ago.  

I like your user name.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

Said this 1000 times and will say it 1001:

The tank for McDavid/Eichel was absolutely the best move.

The steps AFTER the tank is what gave the perception that the tank was wrong.

Don’t really want to get into this again but what happened “after” the tank was always likely to fail as the degree of difficulty for achieving success was made so high through the complete torpedoing of the roster. 

The tank resulting in a winning team is a mandated inclusion when determining if the strategy worked. 

It didn’t work. 

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

11 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I like your user name.   

 

thanks... I'm not really good with heights...

that super steep Aud orange section....  the  seats made you feel like you were just about to go head first 100 feet to the ice.... and take about 10 people with you... 

Edited November 11, 2021 by OrangeSeatVertigo

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

 

thanks... I'm not really good with heights...

that super steep Aud orange section....  the  seats made you feel like you were just about to go head first 100 feet to the ice.... and take about 10 people with you... 

Surprisingly, only recall that actually happening 1 time.  Wasn't at that particular game.

Welcome to the board.  🍺

 

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

 

thanks... I'm not really good with heights...

that super steep Aud orange section....  the  seats made you feel like you were just about to go head first 100 feet to the ice.... and take about 10 people with you... 

Love your name and totally agree. Washington's current arena might even be worse. 

I agree with Thorny. We were lost the day we decided to get worse in order to get better. Unfortunately, we are still doing it.

[Marvin]

22 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Surprisingly, only recall that actually happening 1 time.  Wasn't at that particular game.

Welcome to the board.  🍺

 

That was the first Buffalo Braves playoff game in 1974.  I saw it from my last row seat near the left baseline on the YouTube Videos of the Braves.

I knew one of the guys who helped design the raising of the roof of the Aud to put in the Oranges.  My first time up there when they expanded capacity to 16,325 seated (+ 108 Standing Room)  I commented to him later that month that I felt like a dare-devil skier.  (The last row of the Oranges behind the visitor's net was all I could afford once a year.)

Still, according to an article in the Buffalo News back when Marine Midland Arena opened, the top of the Oranges was still closer to the ice than the first row of the upper bowl now.

[woods-racer]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

I don't know if either really did what the Sabres did.  Chicago, maybe.  Pittsburgh I don't think so for either of their saviors.

Anyway, I know the arguements are out there, but the point is tanking doesn't work far more often than it does.  And when it doesn't it doesn't in spectacular fashion.

Let's agree to not take this any further. It's all water over the bridge at this point.  Let's just wallow in our misery.

Pittsburg absolutely did what buffalo did, right down to trading goalies that where playing well. It's where the whole *tanking* mentality was born.