Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Thorny]

How does it compare to other quick starts we’ve seen among newly acquired F? The “career” sample size is much greater than this 9:game sample size so it’d be tough go predict that THIS is the real him as opposed to all the rest, but I’d say there’s a chance. Not that he’d be a point per guy but that his scoring trend could go up.

it happens  

Finding just the right niche can add to that too

[Derrico]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

That’s ridiculously disingenuous framing by Vogl and I don’t even like the ROR trade obviously 

I mean, me too.  But Thompson legitimately gives me pause in thinking it.

[Digger]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So can I get excited about Tuch yet?

He’s got 3 goals and 7 assists in 9 games.

He’s killing penalties and playing the PP.

He’s 10th among NHL RWs in TOI and 8th in P/G.

He’s somehow managed to be a +5 on this team

And, to the eye test, whatever line he’s on has been our best pretty much every night.

He’s fast and he wins battle and he makes good decisions with or without the puck.

Is he going to be a better player here than he’s shown so far in his career? Can he be a legitimate 1st line power forward?

He's living the dream.............as a member of the Buffalo Sabres.  😏 

Let's hope he keeps playing strong and the youth keep pace.  Tuch is a nice addition no doubt.

[DarthEbriate]

16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

How does it compare to other quick starts we’ve seen among newly acquired F? The “career” sample size is much greater than this 9:game sample size so it’d be tough go predict that THIS is the real him as opposed to all the rest, but I’d say there’s a chance. Not that he’d be a point per guy but that his scoring trend could go up.

it happens  

Finding just the right niche can add to that too

He's already outdone Steve Bernier.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

How does it compare to other quick starts we’ve seen among newly acquired F? The “career” sample size is much greater than this 9:game sample size so it’d be tough go predict that THIS is the real him as opposed to all the rest, but I’d say there’s a chance. Not that he’d be a point per guy but that his scoring trend could go up.

it happens  

Finding just the right niche can add to that too

There are players who find that sweet spot of both reaching the right place in both experience and role at the right time.

I put a lot of stock into that old saying about an NHL player needing at least 200 games before you start to see what he is. Tuch just played his 264th.

He has also never been used in the manner he’s being used right now. In Vegas he was utilized as a middle-six, 2nd-unit foot soldier.

I mean it’s absolutely a small sample size and we shouldn’t expect it to continue.

But right player, right place, right time does happen (see Briere, Daniel). Aren’t analytics supposed to be about uncovering unlocked potential and giving it the right key?

We can only hope.

Right now, I’m just enjoying watching him play.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

He's already outdone Steve Bernier.

Good! Twice the pride double the fall! 

Whoops sorry nervous habit. 

[SabresBillsFan]

Tuch is a very good player. Loved him with Vegas since I live here but he leaves you wanting more. He turns it on in spurts. A guy his size that can skate like that when really motivated could be a handful to slow down. Loved Krebs energy when he was on Vegas as well. Think he’s gonna be a real good two way player. But he’s definitely a pass first guy.

[Derrico]

1 minute ago, SabresBillsFan said:

Tuch is a very good player. Loved him with Vegas since I live here but he leaves you wanting more. He turns it on in spurts. A guy his size that can skate like that when really motivated could be a handful to slow down. Loved Krebs energy when he was on Vegas as well. Think he’s gonna be a real good two way player. But he’s definitely a pass first guy.

For sure but nice seeing him pop a couple goals today.  If he can add 18 to 20 goals a year on top of the assists that should hopefully come, that’s a hell of a player. 

[DarthEbriate]

4 minutes ago, SabresBillsFan said:

Tuch is a very good player. Loved him with Vegas since I live here but he leaves you wanting more. He turns it on in spurts. A guy his size that can skate like that when really motivated could be a handful to slow down. Loved Krebs energy when he was on Vegas as well. Think he’s gonna be a real good two way player. But he’s definitely a pass first guy.

Spurts are fine if they're timely. Even the best NHL players aren't going full bore every single shift. Pick the right spots though and you'll go far.

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There are players who find that sweet spot of both reaching the right place in both experience and role at the right time.

I put a lot of stock into that old saying about an NHL player needing at least 200 games before you start to see what he is. Tuch just played his 264th.

He has also never been used in the manner he’s being used right now. In Vegas he was utilized as a middle-six, 2nd-unit foot soldier.

I mean it’s absolutely a small sample size and we shouldn’t expect it to continue.

But right player, right place, right time does happen (see Briere, Daniel). Aren’t analytics supposed to be about uncovering unlocked potential and giving it the right key?

We can only hope.

Right now, I’m just enjoying watching him play.

Don't see him fully turning into the Sabres LeClair, but he should see better #'s w/ Buffalo than Vegas as he's going to have a much bigger role here than there.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Don't see him fully turning into the Sabres LeClair, but he should see better #'s w/ Buffalo than Vegas as he's going to have a much bigger role here than there.

Leclair, what a great comparable.

Good 20 goal 45 point power winger in his first 3 seasons, traded at 25, turns into a 90-point all-star.

We can only dream.

[triumph_communes]

Krebs sucks. Tuch is so underrated. Such a pro. We will have to see what the first was

Edited January 23, 2022 by triumph_communes

[jsb]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Leclair, what a great comparable.

Good 20 goal 45 point power winger in his first 3 seasons, traded at 25, turns into a 90-point all-star.

We can only dream.

I'm not sure what he'll turn out to be going forward but at the moment he fills several holes in this lineup. RW, Power Forward, PP, PK, good team mate and vet presence plus he's fast, has a good shot, goes to the dirty areas and is good on the boards, my guess is he'll definitely do for now.

Krebs still has a ways to go but first impressions are he'll turn out to be a pretty good NHL forward with time. He seems to see the game very well which bodes well for his future as well.  

[SabresVet]

Early returns look good on the trade, but it's waaaaay too early to evaluate final grades.  Reminds me of team's draft or UFA signings getting graded as though that's the time anyone can draw a conclusion.  

Likelihood is this trade will be more level than the ROR deal. 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Krebs sucks. Tuch is so underrated. Such a pro. We will have to see what the first was

No Krebs doesn’t suck. Kid is going to be a real player.

[Flashsabre]

https://twitter.com/_MelissaBurgess/status/1484990693441482754?s=20

 

[nfreeman]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

That’s ridiculously disingenuous framing by Vogl and I don’t even like the ROR trade obviously 

How do?  Because Eichel was more attractive in trade than ROR?

[Andrew Amerk]

3 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Krebs sucks. Tuch is so underrated. Such a pro. We will have to see what the first was

How does Krebs suck?

He is only 20 with only 20 NHL games, and he sucks already?

[SabresBillsFan]

3 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Krebs sucks. Tuch is so underrated. Such a pro. We will have to see what the first was

You have no idea what your talking about. 

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

https://twitter.com/_MelissaBurgess/status/1484990693441482754?s=20

The tweet didn't display for me; let's try again:

And the reason I wanted to post the wording of the tweet is that 5 years ago it could have been:

Jack Eichel calls Sam Reinhart “one of the smartest hockey players I’ve seen.” Said he reads the game really well, has a high hockey sense & great passing ability & makes everyone around him better.

I miss Reinhart; he was my favorite Sabre when he was here.  But I look at our 1C saying this about a teammate and think, that's nice, but compared to what this team looked like the last few years, the news isn't that we have a coupla good players, it's that we have those two, AND Tuch AND Cozens AND Mitts AND Quinn AND JJ...

The Post-tank Sabres had a coupla great talents but after that it felt kind of thin.  Now it feels like there's a lot more substance in the pipeline.

And I'll also say this:  a lot of those players I just named could be a future captain of this team.  Before it was just Eichel and he didn't lead, didn't inspire, didn't cheer his teammates on like this current bunch all do for each other.

Edited January 23, 2022 by The Ghost of Yuri

[LGR4GM]

We need another 2 good drafts

[triumph_communes]

6 hours ago, The Ghost of NS said:

How does Krebs suck?

He is only 20 with only 20 NHL games, and he sucks already?

Turnover king.  20 games before his first goal is the real deal?  He’s processing the game too slow and is a couple of years away still.  My judgement isn’t final but he sucks right now and that’s a fact.  TT was a turnover king too, but he at least held on to the puck.  Puck is always bouncing off of Krebs stick like he’s gripping it too hard.  Hard to give first impressions when a puck is lost every time it gets to a guy.

 

I was always patient about the ROR deal and yes St Louis won a cup the year after so they absolutely won. But TT is the real deal and I’m not ready to say we lost. 
 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by triumph_communes

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We need another 2 good drafts

The fear is that Adams might believe they need another 2 exceptional drafts.

[mjd1001]

Krebs scoring those goals was nice.  When watching him play he just doesn't stand out to me at all.  I have long hoped it is for 2 reasons: 1. He is young.  2. I have no idea what to look for in determining who is or will be a good player. Hopes he keeps up the production.

Tuch is someone that I don't think many realized his talent/potential when he was traded to the Sabres. As far as production, lets look at his 82 game pace for his career:

This year (only through 9 games with Buf):  27 goals, 64 assists

Last year:  27 goals, 22 assists

2019-20:  16 goals, 18 assists

2018-19:  22 goals, 35 assists

2017-18:  16 goals, 23 assists

Career over 82 games (taking out his rookie 6 game trial with Minnesota):  20goals, 27 assists

To me, that looks like a guy that, at this point in his career, you HOPE for production of about 25 goals and 35 assists per year based on past production (weighing recent seasons more than past seasons)

 

Now if you look at his usage, he is getting slightly more even strength time on ice here than in Vegas (14:12 per game vs 13:31).  Slightly more PP time (2:52  vs 2:13) and a lot more PK time here (2:03 per game vs 0:12) per game.  So can his numbers get better because of more ice time/more opportunities. Maybe, but not by that much. Add a goal or two extra to his expected production and a handful of assists.

The thing we don't know and is very hard to quantify is...how will who he is teamed with impact his expected production?  Will being on the top PP unit and playing with the best line mates possibly increase his production even more?  Or will being in that position and now facing the best opponents focusing on shutting his line down reduce his production?  That is something very hard to predict.

Just looking at his numbers, doing some very basic extrapolation, I think we see a guy that you hope for 25 goals and 35 assist per year from.  On a very good year MAYBE 30 goals and 35-40 assists.  On a down year, 15-20 goals and 25-30 assists.

Edited January 23, 2022 by mjd1001

[woods-racer]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We need another 2 good drafts

 

48 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The fear is that Adams might believe they need another 2 exceptional drafts.

 

Good= 2 players per year that in 3-4 years from their draft year become NHL players that are in the starting lineup for a team for a minimum of 5 years.

Exceptional= 3 players per year that in 2-5 years from their draft become NHL players with at least 1 player considered top 16 in the NHL at their position.

KA's floor needs to be good, I am expecting more towards exceptional with the staff he has assembled.