Around the NHL 2021-22

[Weave]

8 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Depends on if they are inherently related; is he yelling because he's drunk or yelling at people and an alcoholic on the side. 

Good leaders are not verbally abusive.  Firing someone, a leader especially, for being verbally abusive is 100% justifiable.

[Weave]

I’ll go further.  Yelling goes against every leadership training tenet I have ever been exposed to.  If he is yelling, he’s lost the room. If he is yelling he is denying open, honest communication among his team.   If he is yelling, he’s resorted to emotion over logic.  If his team needs him to yell for motivation he’s chosen his team poorly.  Motivated people don’t require emotional outbursts to perform.  Strong personalities won’t abide a leader prone to emotional outbursts.  The team that stays will be weak personalities, and weak personalities make for weak teams.  He’s sabotaging his own team.

So really, yelling is a strong indicator that he is a poor leader that is holding back his team.  He needed to go.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I'm curious, 

I get that abusive workplaces are not good at all, they shouldn't exist, but they do. 

This doesn't excuse it, but being the big shot on a sports team, doesn't that come with the territory? Coaches and GM's in every sport yell, universally across the globe. Even here, after a bad game I hear a lot that the coach should show no mercy, bag skate the players until they puke, etc etc. Is it really OK to physical abuse a player in that manner but they can't handle some yelling? 

I know I'm simplifying this whole thing, but there has to be something more than some verbal abuse to get canned here. 

[Sabel79]

Just now, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I'm curious, 

I get that abusive workplaces are not good at all, they shouldn't exist, but they do. 

This doesn't excuse it, but being the big shot on a sports team, doesn't that come with the territory? Coaches and GM's in every sport yell, universally across the globe. Even here, after a bad game I hear a lot that the coach should show no mercy, bag skate the players until they puke, etc etc. Is it really OK to physical abuse a player in that manner but they can't handle some yelling? 

I know I'm simplifying this whole thing, but there has to be something more than some verbal abuse to get canned here. 

This is, more or less, entirely the problem.  There was a time when this did in fact come with the territory.  There was a time where high school football coaches not only condoned but participated in cruel and weird hazing rituals that would absolutely get several people arrested now (not speaking from personal experience at all there...).   There was a time where guys would smoke in the office, get hammered at lunch and sexually harass/abuse female coworkers.  

We've decided as a society that this isn't acceptable.  The fact that we can find examples of these things still happening doesn't mean it's not wrong.  Eventually, as in this case, it gets found out and ends badly.  

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

There was a time where guys would smoke in the office, get hammered at lunch and sexually harass/abuse female coworkers.

I remember those days, although not so much the last part.  I never smoked but I remember when people smoked at their desk.  And yes, I had a few ginger ales at lunch once in a while.  It was common at my first job post college and I just though that's how life was.  Then I moved from Los Angeles to Fort Worth and realized they do things a little differently in the Bible Belt.

[Weave]

34 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I'm curious, 

I get that abusive workplaces are not good at all, they shouldn't exist, but they do. 

This doesn't excuse it, but being the big shot on a sports team, doesn't that come with the territory? Coaches and GM's in every sport yell, universally across the globe. Even here, after a bad game I hear a lot that the coach should show no mercy, bag skate the players until they puke, etc etc. Is it really OK to physical abuse a player in that manner but they can't handle some yelling? 

I know I'm simplifying this whole thing, but there has to be something more than some verbal abuse to get canned here. 

I suspect the behavior was in the office as well.  I won’t speak for what works among athletes (although I suspect it doesn’t work well there either) but I can confidently say that emotional outbursts are not effective in office environments.

And there is something more.  The announcement indicated he will be in an alcohol treatment program.

[kas23]

46 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I'm curious, 

I get that abusive workplaces are not good at all, they shouldn't exist, but they do. 

This doesn't excuse it, but being the big shot on a sports team, doesn't that come with the territory? Coaches and GM's in every sport yell, universally across the globe. Even here, after a bad game I hear a lot that the coach should show no mercy, bag skate the players until they puke, etc etc. Is it really OK to physical abuse a player in that manner but they can't handle some yelling? 

I know I'm simplifying this whole thing, but there has to be something more than some verbal abuse to get canned here. 

I think it depends on the context of the yelling. I’m sure McDermott (or any coach) is yelling or yelling at specific players constantly during team practices and games. But, I don’t see this happening once off the field (or ice). I can’t find a reason for a GM to be yelling at employees. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I think this gets to the crux of it, society has changed and I think we're going to be hearing a lot more things come out now. 

[kas23]

I also think there’s a clear distinction between yelling and abuse. In fact, in my profession, which was considerably abusive during training, there was little/no yelling involved. 

[That Aud Smell]

11 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Depends on if they are inherently related; is he yelling because he's drunk or yelling at people and an alcoholic on the side. 

If someone's routinely verbally abusive to employees, and is also an alcoholic, those two things are intertwined regardless of whether that person is actually inebriated when they're yelling at their employees.

Calls to mind a poem by a Buffalo gal, Ani DiFranco (performed as a spoken word song, "Fuel"):

"They say that alcoholics are always alcoholics.
Even when they're dry as my lips, for years.
Even when they're stranded on a small desert island.
With no place in two thousand miles to buy beer.
And I wonder is he different.
Is he different.
Has he changed.
What he's about?
Or is he just a liar ...
With nothing to lie about?"

 

[LabattBlue]

I am going to get yelled at again because I am admitting I don't watch most of the games, but I just looked at the NHL standings, and based on point %, the Sabres are all the way down to 24th out of 32 teams.  That fall from grace happened quickly. 😔

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by LabattBlue

[Doohickie]

10 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

That fall from grace happened quickly.

Right.  It doesn't point to them being a terrible team though, it points to them not being deep (and Adams not compromising the development of the kids in Rochester).  They've lost perhaps their three most important and highly skilled players to injury, and another key player to boot (Mitts, VO, Anderson, plus Joki).  Any team that loses all its top players at once is going to feel it, and the Sabres simply don't have any margin.

If Mitts, VO and Anderson come back soon I could see the Sabres going on another tear like they did early in the season.  And just like they dropped quickly, they could bounce back almost as quickly.

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I think this gets to the crux of it, society has changed and I think we're going to be hearing a lot more things come out now. 

This is the feeling I get, too. 

tip of the iceberg 

[LabattBlue]

10 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Right.  It doesn't point to them being a terrible team though, it points to them not being deep (and Adams not compromising the development of the kids in Rochester).  They've lost perhaps their three most important and highly skilled players to injury, and another key player to boot (Mitts, VO, Anderson, plus Joki).  Any team that loses all its top players at once is going to feel it, and the Sabres simply don't have any margin.

If Mitts, VO and Anderson come back soon I could see the Sabres going on another tear like they did early in the season.  And just like they dropped quickly, they could bounce back almost as quickly.

I guess time will tell.  Week to week, has turned into a month, and still going.

[Doohickie]

Yeah, that's the troublesome bit.  And all the while they're digging a hole.

But if they otherwise have a good season but can point to that early season slump caused by injuries as the reason they didn't make the playoffs, that would be progress.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I think we know we're not a playoff team, we've already exceeded expectations. But I do get the sense that we are actually rebuilding here properly

[Doohickie]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is the feeling I get, too. 

tip of the iceberg 

Yep.  I watched The Sandlot for the first time last night.  Cute movie. 

If you're not familiar with it, there is a scene where a per-adolescent is so obsessed with a teenaged girl (who happens to be a lifeguard) that he purposely dives into the deep end even though he can't swim, knowing that she will be the one to jump in and save him.  It goes according to plan and she gives him mouth-to-mouth.  He ends up smiling back and she throws him and all his friends out of the pool.  But the first thing that came to my mind watching it is that the boy was guilty of sexual harassment in that he put her into a position where she would have to do something to save him that to him would be an essentially sexual act. 

I don't think they put that scene into the movie if it were made today.  At first I thought it was funny but then it occurred to me that the character was a 10-year-old creeper.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Yep.  I watched The Sandlot for the first time last night.  Cute movie. 

If you're not familiar with it, there is a scene where a per-adolescent is so obsessed with a teenaged girl (who happens to be a lifeguard) that he purposely dives into the deep end even though he can't swim, knowing that she will be the one to jump in and save him.  It goes according to plan and she gives him mouth-to-mouth.  He ends up smiling back and she throws him and all his friends out of the pool.  But the first thing that came to my mind watching it is that the boy was guilty of sexual harassment in that he put her into a position where she would have to do something to save him that to him would be an essentially sexual act. 

I don't think they put that scene into the movie if it were made today.  At first I thought it was funny but then it occurred to me that the character was a 10-year-old creeper.

THIS MAGIC MOMENT🎵

...dude I'm a 90s kid. I've seen Sandlot. 

 

[Hoss]

59 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Yeah, that's the troublesome bit.  And all the while they're digging a hole.

But if they otherwise have a good season but can point to that early season slump caused by injuries as the reason they didn't make the playoffs, that would be progress.

I don’t think injuries are the reason this team is/will be bad. We all knew coming into the season they’d be terrible. An extremely soft schedule to start the year got them some momentum and confidence but once that ended so too did the surprising start.

[Doohickie]

Perhaps, but the injuries simply killed any momentum they were gathering.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

I don’t think injuries are the reason this team is/will be bad. We all knew coming into the season they’d be terrible. An extremely soft schedule to start the year got them some momentum and confidence but once that ended so too did the surprising start.

I was watching Michael Irvin the other day on some sports talk show and he was talking about how it was common knowledge among players in the NFL that the weaker teams try harder earlier in the season than the "good" teams do. They are always out to prove that, "hey, look, we don't actually suck!". Rarely do those teams maintain. 

Just struck me as probably transferable to other sports. The Sabres have a habit of promising "things will be different, this time!" in offseasons so it's not surprising they look like they have more to prove, early on 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I don’t think injuries are the reason this team is/will be bad. We all knew coming into the season they’d be terrible. An extremely soft schedule to start the year got them some momentum and confidence but once that ended so too did the surprising start.

Soft schedule plus a lot of home games getting the matchups Granato wanted all helped with the start.

Will be interested to see how they can do at home over the full season.  (The road games won't be as interesting as there are only a handful of teams that the Sabres can simply be fine against w/ no consideration to matchups.)  Expect they could still end up an NHL 0.600 or better at home.  But that 71 or 72 point season will be built on going ~0.250 on the road.

[Norcal]

Cool 

 

[Huckleberry]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

THIS MAGIC MOMENT🎵

...dude I'm a 90s kid. I've seen Sandlot. 

 

90's kid, so your were born in the 80's then ? 

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Perhaps, but the injuries simply killed any momentum they were gathering.

I would suggest it's not the injuries, everybody gets them, but rather the lack of depth.