Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[Weave]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Can we all agree the RK aka Rasputin was the worst of the bunch?

Ron Rolston says hi.

[Doohickie]

I will say that whenever RFK was asked a question, he never gave an answer I understood.  It was either full of technical mumbo jumbo or doublespeak to skirt the question.  Granato talks to the press as if he's actually trying to explain things to a moron which means I understand them pretty well.  His answers are simple and they're clear and you understand what he's doing.  He at times "calls out" players, but always tries to make it sound positive (like the remarks about Skinner's practice habits.... and how much he's improved them).

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Can we all agree the RK aka Rasputin was the worst of the bunch?

Rolston had absolutely no business being behind a bench in the NHL.  Not even as an assistant coach.  His team out of the gate using his own system was truly unwatchable and he ran practices that would embarrass Bantam level coaches for their simplicity.  Yeah, Krueger's team after getting gutted by injuries became unwatchable (just like several other Sabres teams) but Rolston's was unwatchable right out of the gate, & Nolan had the same crew playing watchable, though not good hockey.

Housley managed to finish dead last even WITH an actual C spine.  He followed that up by also setting Skinner up to get the monster deal after it was clear that he himself was history by moving him back onto Eichel's line to end the season.  No way does a 38 goal Skinner get $9MM.  So, Housley is STILL hosing the Sabres.

Can't honestly say Krueger was worse than either.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

Ron Rolston says hi.

It’s funny but Rolston’s track record prior to year 2 in Buffalo was pretty good.  He had 2 solid years in Rochester.  Then when promoted he went a respectable 15-11-5 in Buffalo.  The next season the tank began in earnest and his 3 best forwards were CoHo, Ennis and Stafford.  Vanek was traded 13 games in for Moulson.  Still they had good goaltending this no excuse for a 4-15 record to start that season.  

After looking at that roster compared to now, I’m really worried that DG has been set up to fail.  

It’s pretty neck and neck between RR and RK but RK gets the nod for being a terrible communicator and a player killer.  Rolston didn’t have quality forwards like Eichel, Reinhart, Hall or Skinner to coach.  

The sad part is between Nolan, RR, Housley, and RK we are discussing the worst group of coaches ever assembled by an organization trying to navigate a rebuild.  It’s almost like they have no idea what they are doing.  

Edited September 29, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s funny but Rolston’s track record prior to year 2 in Buffalo was pretty good.  He had 2 solid years in Rochester.  Then when promoted he went a respectable 15-11-5 in Buffalo.  The next season the tank began in earnest and his 3 best forwards were CoHo, Ennis and Stafford.  Vanek was traded 13 games in for Moulson.  Still they had good goaltending this no excuse for a 4-15 record to start that season.  

After looking at that roster compared to now, I’m really worried that DG has been set up to fail.  

It’s pretty neck and neck between RR and RK but RK gets the nod for being a terrible communicator and a player killer.  Rolston didn’t have quality forwards like Eichel, Reinhart, Hall or Skinner to coach.  

Rolston pulled a Bylsma getting the "at least he's somebody different" and getting slightly better results than the previous guy running the previous guy's system but then taking a step back when he had carte blanche the next year.

Actually watched practices run by Rolston.  They were embarrassing.  There was a reason HIS squad was on a '74-'75 Capitals level.  And it wasn't just that Regier wanted suffering.  Heck, his team had Miller & was unwatchable.  Give Krueger back Ullmark & he survives last season.  (Doubt he'd be back, but he doesn't lose 12 in a row if he had him.) 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Rolston had absolutely no business being behind a bench in the NHL.  Not even as an assistant coach.  His team out of the gate using his own system was truly unwatchable and he ran practices that would embarrass Bantam level coaches for their simplicity.  Yeah, Krueger's team after getting gutted by injuries became unwatchable (just like several other Sabres teams) but Rolston's was unwatchable right out of the gate, & Nolan had the same crew playing watchable, though not good hockey.

Housley managed to finish dead last even WITH an actual C spine.  He followed that up by also setting Skinner up to get the monster deal after it was clear that he himself was history by moving him back onto Eichel's line to end the season.  No way does a 38 goal Skinner get $9MM.  So, Housley is STILL hosing the Sabres.

Can't honestly say Krueger was worse than either.

I think I’m going to have agree without this.

Krueger could command the room and function in an NHL environment. His tactical and development philosophies were badly outdated, his standard of accountability lacking and his inflexibility ultimately killed him.

Housley could function in an NHL environment and his tactical and development philosophies were more modern, if poorly implemented. He at least tried to make players accountable but largely failed due to his lack of personal leadership skills.

Rolston could neither command a room nor function in an NHL environment. His tactics and philosophies were sophomoric. I struggle to think of something he did well.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Rolston pulled a Bylsma getting the "at least he's somebody different" and getting slightly better results than the previous guy running the previous guy's system but then taking a step back when he had carte blanche the next year.

Actually watched practices run by Rolston.  They were embarrassing.  There was a reason HIS squad was on a '74-'75 Capitals level.  And it wasn't just that Regier wanted suffering.  Heck, his team had Miller & was unwatchable.  Give Krueger back Ullmark & he survives last season.  (Doubt he'd be back, but he doesn't lose 12 in a row if he had him.) 

It wouldn’t have matter.  RK’s team like RR couldn’t score.  Good goaltending gives you a chance. Sadly when you score 1 goal a night you ultimately have no chance good goaltending or no.  

My biggest issue with Rasputin is that he destroyed players. In both years in Buffalo the offensive production of our forwards and offensive D cratered.  From stars like Skinner and Dahlin to depth like Vesey and Sheary.  He coached low event hockey in a high event league.  

I said the day he was hired that he was a terrible fit.  We needed a teacher not a cheerleader.  We finally got one in DG.  

Edited September 29, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Maybe.

[Pimlach]

I don’t know who dredged up Ralph, if it was Botterill it is another major strike on his record. 
 

Too early to say anything about Granato other than he looked competent last year.  Revive this thread after one full season.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is one other issue.  Was RR brought in to win like RK was?  No question RR was a joke of an NHL coach but his team was intended to fail.  RK was given Skinner, Dahlin, Ullmark, Eichel, Staal, Reinhart, Hall, and VO to play playoff hockey and he created a 31st overall team instead.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is one other issue.  Was RR brought in to win like RK was?  No question RR was a joke of an NHL coach but his team was intended to fail.  RK was given Skinner, Dahlin, Ullmark, Eichel, Staal, Reinhart, Hall, and VO to play playoff hockey and he created a 31st overall team instead.

With a playing through injury Eichel & a healthy Ullmark, Krueger had the team playing NHL 0.500 hockey.  With no Ullmark, a COVID freeze which compressed an already tight schedule even more, and and even more injured Eichel / no Eichel is when the wheels fell off.  Krueger didn't have enough X&O's chops to work his way out of that.

But in fairness, until Ullmark came back, Granato, who does seem to have the X&O chops, couldn't pull them out of the swoon given those other parameters either.

And, again, Krueger was given Ullmark and Tokarski (and Hutton).  Adams has yet to bring in a true NHLer that wasn't playing when Biron was in his prime.  Having a real goalie would have kept this past season tolerable.  And given Ullmark's injury history & no other goalie being brought in, a cynic might say Krueger was set up to fail.  In pretty much the same manner you fear Granato might be getting set up to fail this year.

[Digger]

Yes I think Don Granato is the best Sabres coach since Lindy Ruff.

What I liked about Granato last season was that his team could have a bad game and then the next night against the same team would be better prepared to play them.  He seems to be great at breaking down the issues and putting in a plan to address the issues (a plan that actually empowers his players, enthuses his players and works).

Lindy's teams were always really prepared to play in the playoffs and I remember that I was always impressed with how we started the playoffs every year with him as the coach and the execution plan.  Playoffs..........................so long ago.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s funny but Rolston’s track record prior to year 2 in Buffalo was pretty good.  He had 2 solid years in Rochester.  Then when promoted he went a respectable 15-11-5 in Buffalo.  The next season the tank began in earnest and his 3 best forwards were CoHo, Ennis and Stafford.  Vanek was traded 13 games in for Moulson.  Still they had good goaltending this no excuse for a 4-15 record to start that season.  

After looking at that roster compared to now, I’m really worried that DG has been set up to fail.  

It’s pretty neck and neck between RR and RK but RK gets the nod for being a terrible communicator and a player killer.  Rolston didn’t have quality forwards like Eichel, Reinhart, Hall or Skinner to coach.  

The sad part is between Nolan, RR, Housley, and RK we are discussing the worst group of coaches ever assembled by an organization trying to navigate a rebuild.  It’s almost like they have no idea what they are doing.  

I think they view this year as one big long training camp. Institute the new culture and system. Grow the younger players as much as possible. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think they view this year as one big long training camp. Institute the new culture and system. Grow the younger players as much as possible. 

I said that was what they should have done last year and have no problem with that this year except I would have brought in real goaltending.

[PerreaultForever]

16 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I want to see if Granato can resurrect Skinner.  If he can do that I'll be ecstatic.

That would definitely be a win, but can he? 

I look at Skinner, who is supposed to be a goal scorer, and I wonder to myself why does nobody use him on the power play where by definition he SHOULD be a natural fit and a scoring threat (like Olofsson is) but he doesn't ever work out there. Why? Because he's a selfish player, bad passer, and does not take direction well. A PP is a coordinated unit, and he just can't be coached. That's my view of him anyway, 

so if Granato can get him back to being any kind of actual offensive threat, a 2nd liner even, then he's done something right for sure. 

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

That would definitely be a win, but can he? 

I look at Skinner, who is supposed to be a goal scorer, and I wonder to myself why does nobody use him on the power play where by definition he SHOULD be a natural fit and a scoring threat (like Olofsson is) but he doesn't ever work out there. Why? Because he's a selfish player, bad passer, and does not take direction well. A PP is a coordinated unit, and he just can't be coached. That's my view of him anyway, 

so if Granato can get him back to being any kind of actual offensive threat, a 2nd liner even, then he's done something right for sure. 

 

Why he hasn't been used on the PP is simple & you covered much of the reason for it but not all of it.  He actually passes pretty poorly for an offensive specialist.  His shot isn't special much beyond the blue paint, and while he is particularly adept at picking guys' pockets as they leave the zone, he isn't good in board battles & it is seldom that the opportunity to pick the pocket of a PKer skating out of the zone is available, and through pretty much his entire tenure in Buffalo there has been a guy who's better than him in front of the net as well.  Marching to his own tuba player pretty much seals the deal.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him start the season in Reinhart's traditional role but could see Ruotsalainen taking it from him by early November.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Taro T

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see him start the season in Reinhart's traditional role but could see Ruotsalainen Murray taking it from him by early November.

fify

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

fify

What in Murray's game makes you believe he has the fluidity & hands to pick up loose pucks near the net in the time that man down low typically has to collect that "garbage."  Ruotsalainen has had a very good net front sense on display in limited opportunities this TC/PS.

What makes you believe Murray will have a knack for deflecting pucks?  R2 has demonstrated good hand eye coordination (again in limited sample size) and likely will excel at it.

Aren't you one of the guys 'all in' on Granato?  Putting Murray on the PP because he's big isn't a good enough reason & unless you see something in Murray's game that screams Phil Esposito or Rick Vaive doubt Donny would  put him there just because he's big.

[Doohickie]

As much as it pains me to say it, @Taro T has a point.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Doohickie

[Andrew Amerk]

On 9/28/2021 at 5:53 PM, Buffalonill said:

Thats weird to say when he hasn't  coached 1 season yet.

 

Maybe you missed it, but Granato coached last season. 

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

What in Murray's game makes you believe he has the fluidity & hands to pick up loose pucks near the net in the time that man down low typically has to collect that "garbage."  Ruotsalainen has had a very good net front sense on display in limited opportunities this TC/PS.

What makes you believe Murray will have a knack for deflecting pucks?  R2 has demonstrated good hand eye coordination (again in limited sample size) and likely will excel at it.

Aren't you one of the guys 'all in' on Granato?  Putting Murray on the PP because he's big isn't a good enough reason & unless you see something in Murray's game that screams Phil Esposito or Rick Vaive doubt Donny would  put him there just because he's big.

Rick Vaive was one of the nicest players that I’ve ever met. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

 and through pretty much his entire tenure in Buffalo there has been a guy who's better than him in front of the net as well.  Marching to his own tuba player pretty much seals the deal.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him start the season in Reinhart's traditional role but could see Ruotsalainen taking it from him by early November.

True, and not only is the Reinhart option gone, so is the Risto option. I'm actually curious to see who ends up there. Tage? Big for a screen but not tough enough. Cozens? Maybe. I saw him do that with Team Canada but is he strong enough yet? I'm really not sure this roster can put any sort of decent PP together aside from Dahlin on a point and Olofsson as a high sniper. 

[Buffalonill]

8 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Maybe you missed it, but Granato coached last season. 

 You must have missed when I said coached a season 

[PASabreFan]

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

As much as it pains me to say it, @Taro T has a point.

May I send you our pamphlet?

[K-9]

22 hours ago, Taro T said:

Rolston pulled a Bylsma getting the "at least he's somebody different" and getting slightly better results than the previous guy running the previous guy's system but then taking a step back when he had carte blanche the next year.

Actually watched practices run by Rolston.  They were embarrassing.  There was a reason HIS squad was on a '74-'75 Capitals level.  And it wasn't just that Regier wanted suffering.  Heck, his team had Miller & was unwatchable.  Give Krueger back Ullmark & he survives last season.  (Doubt he'd be back, but he doesn't lose 12 in a row if he had him.) 

Yeah, but those gardening gloves really popped!