Comparing the Kids Potential to Former Sabres

[GASabresIUFAN]

I was thinking about players like Asplund, Mitts, and wondering about their potential.  For example I think Asplund can (will) mature into Jochen Hecht type player.  

As to guys like Mitts I think he has the potential to be better then Derek Roy and more like Connolly at his best.  

Cozens maybe ROR.  I’m really not sure.

Who do think these guys and others compare too?

[Weave]

Samuelsson seems to be Uwe Krupp 2.0 if he keeps developing.

I think we'd be damned lucky to have Mitts get to Derek Roy level. I think Derek Plante with niftier hands is more likely. Ken Priestlay worst case.

Cozens is projecting as Peca if Peca's game were cleaned up, so Stu Barnes?

Thompson and Taylor Pyatt might be good comparables.

I'm not sure this team is good enough to compare to, say 02-03 Sabres, so I don't know how you can make many comparisons to actual good players.  Most of these guys are going to be afterthoughts in 10 years.  Think 86-87 with Jack playing the role of the lone star Gilbert on the roster.  There was a ton of youth and promise on that team, most of which never panned out. I expect the same of this current roster.

 

 

[I-90 W]

We have a tendency to overestimate our prospects, both this board and our fanbase in general. Though I suppose all fanbases probably do as well. We will see what happens. I just have a horrible feeling that 2-3 years from now Terry and Kim will run out of patience with KA and that will force him to scrap this plan and we will be back to square one. I hope that does not happen. 

[dudacek]

My take?

Owen Power:

• Upside: Alex Pietrangelo (all-situations, 1st-pairing defenceman, Olympic Team Canada-level but not Norris Trophy)
• Likely: Eric Johnson (all-situations #3 defenceman)
• Best Sabre comparable: Uwe Krupp/Doug Bodger (obvious physical gifts and top-four utility, but lacking that alpha chromosome)

Jack Quinn:

• Upside: Mark Stone (complete, all-around 1st-line wing)
• Likely: Ondrej Palat (complete, all-around 2nd-line wing)
• Best Sabre comparable: Jason Pominville/Craig Ramsey/Ric Seiling (he's going to be good and reliable for a long time, still not sure if he ends up known more for his scoring or his checking, but he will do both)

Dylan Cozens:

• Upside: Ryan Kesler (less of a prick, but similar presence, offence and 2-way game as a centre)
• Likely: Filip Forsberg (versatile all-around top six winger)
• Best Sabre comparable: ??? (he might be around their stature, but he's too primal to be Luce, too big and fast to be Peca, not tough enough to be Foligno. Stepping down a notch, he's way too honest to be Gratton or McKegney; he's pretty unique for a Sabre)

Rasmus Dahlin:

• Upside: Erik Karlsson (elite, Norris Trophy winning offence-first defenceman)
• Likely: Karlsson (I still think he gets there)
• Best Sabre comparable: Phil Housley (the only one who really fits in terms of physical gifts, Rasmus will be more rounded)

Casey Mittelstadt:

• Upside: pre-concussion Tim Connolly (good 2C production, 1C highlight reel)
• More likely: John Tucker (top six talent who never could put it together)
• Best Sabre comparable: Derek Plante (guy who could produce when used in the top 6, but generally not someone you wanted to lean on when things got tough)

Henri Jokiharju:

• Upside: Jared Spurgeon (Smooth defender who rarely makes mistakes and can contribute in all 3 zones)
• More likely: Alex Goligoski (smooth defender who is best in transition but needs to be spotted to be at his most useful)
• Best Sabre comparable: Petr Svoboda (reliable 2nd-pairing guy with skill but not points)

Going to enjoy watching these guys develop the way Sam and Jack (and too few others) have over the past decade.

Edited August 17, 2021 by dudacek

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As to guys like Mitts I think he has the potential to be better then Derek Roy and more like Connolly at his best.  

I really have high hopes for Mitts.  He is older than Cozens but kind of runs in Cozens' shadow.  But late in the season he seemed to shine. I hope he continues his upward trajectory.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I went and looked at Tucker, Plante, Roy and Connolly's peaks and honestly Roy had the highest peak and I think Mitts is a more skilled hockey player then Roy.  That doesn't mean that he'll be as good as long as Roy was or even hit the numbers Roy did at his peak, but I think that is his potential.

I also think Dahlin is more Calle Johansson then Erik Karlson.

I do like the Kesler comparison for Cozens, but I'm not sure Cozens will ever be that physical which is why I mentioned ROR.  

As to Samuelsson, I wonder if he is more McKee or Schoenfeld then anyone else long-term.  I'm hoping for Mike Ramsey, but that is asking for two much.

Edited August 17, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Weave]

Dudacek and I agree on Mitts.  No more scouting reports required.

[freester]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I was thinking about players like Asplund, Mitts, and wondering about their potential.  For example I think Asplund can (will) mature into Jochen Hecht type player.  

As to guys like Mitts I think he has the potential to be better then Derek Roy and more like Connolly at his best.  

Cozens maybe ROR.  I’m really not sure.

Who do think these guys and others compare too?

You are overrating Mitts. Tim Connolly was amazing when healthy. I suspect he tops out at Derek Roy. 

[Weave]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I went and looked at Tucker, Plante, Roy and Connolly's peaks and honestly Roy had the highest peak and I think Mitts is a more skilled hockey player then Roy.  That doesn't mean that he'll be as good as long as Roy was or even hit the numbers Roy did at his peak, but I think that is his potential.

I also think Dahlin is more Calle Johansson then Erik Karlson.

I do like the Kesler comparison for Cozens, but I'm not sure Cozens will ever be that physical which is why I mentioned ROR.  

As to Samuelsson, I wonder if he is more McKee or Schoenfeld then anyone else long-term.  I'm hoping for Mike Ramsey, but that is asking for two much.

If all you checked was stats you only got about 30% of the story with those three.  Tucker’s juniors performance was so good he played in Buffalo on an emergency basis while still in juniors.  He had skill and flash but couldn’t be any more than a support level player in the NHL.  Plante was a borderline 2C that was frequently forced into a featured role due to Lafontaine and Pecas frequent absences.  His numbers were inflated because he got big time on the PP and with the teams best scoring wingers.  And Roy, well you know Roy.  He also stumbled badly when forced to be featured.  Mitts will be alot like these guys, inflated stats because he will be forced to be 1 or 2 lines higher than he should be.

[nucci]

10 hours ago, I-90 W said:

We have a tendency to overestimate our prospects, both this board and our fanbase in general. Though I suppose all fanbases probably do as well. We will see what happens. I just have a horrible feeling that 2-3 years from now Terry and Kim will run out of patience with KA and that will force him to scrap this plan and we will be back to square one. I hope that does not happen. 

that's because that's what they do

[GASabresIUFAN]

For some reason y’all keep selling Casey short.  Last season all I heard on this board was Casey is a bust and will never amount to anything. Now, after proving you wrong, it’s he is worse then John Tucker and will never be counted on in the clutch.  Lol.  All this kid did last season was play clutch hockey.  Once inserted in the lineup full time, after soul sucking Rasputin was fired, all he did was play tough minutes as the no. 2 scoring at a 63 pt pace.  
https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-casey-mittelstadt-season-recap/c-325121364

Granato, like Chris Taylor the year before, thinks the world of this kid.  Maybe it’s time for people here to keep a more open mind on his potential.  

[Weave]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

For some reason y’all keep selling Casey short.  Last season all I heard on this board was Casey is a bust and will never amount to anything. Now, after proving you wrong, it’s he is worse then John Tucker and will never be counted on in the clutch.  Lol.  All this kid did last season was play clutch hockey.  Once inserted in the lineup full time, after soul sucking Rasputin was fired, all he did was play tough minutes as the no. 2 scoring at a 63 pt pace.  
https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-casey-mittelstadt-season-recap/c-325121364

Granato, like Chris Taylor the year before, thinks the world of this kid.  Maybe it’s time for people here to keep a more open mind on his potential.  

And Derek Plante did the same.  That still didn’t make him a 2C on a good team.  

[Doohickie]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

For some reason y’all keep selling Casey short.  Last season all I heard on this board was Casey is a bust and will never amount to anything. Now, after proving you wrong, it’s he is worse then John Tucker and will never be counted on in the clutch.  Lol.  All this kid did last season was play clutch hockey.  Once inserted in the lineup full time, after soul sucking Rasputin was fired, all he did was play tough minutes as the no. 2 scoring at a 63 pt pace.  
https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-casey-mittelstadt-season-recap/c-325121364

Granato, like Chris Taylor the year before, thinks the world of this kid.  Maybe it’s time for people here to keep a more open mind on his potential.  

I'll wait and see, just like the rest of the kids.  No use in arguing about it and insisting (as some posters on this thread) that he will fail to hit is ceiling.

[Doohickie]

And with all eyes on Cozens, I wouldn't be surprised to see Casey end up with the C on his sweater.

[Pimlach]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

My take?

Owen Power:

• Upside: Alex Pietrangelo (all-situations, 1st-pairing defenceman, Olympic Team Canada-level but not Norris Trophy)
• Likely: Eric Johnson (all-situations #3 defenceman)
• Best Sabre comparable: Uwe Krupp/Doug Bodger (obvious physical gifts and top-four utility, but lacking that alpha chromosome)

Jack Quinn:

• Upside: Mark Stone (complete, all-around 1st-line wing)
• Likely: Ondrej Palat (complete, all-around 2nd-line wing)
• Best Sabre comparable: Jason Pominville/Craig Ramsey/Ric Seiling (he's going to be good and reliable for a long time, still not sure if he ends up known more for his scoring or his checking, but he will do both)

Dylan Cozens:

• Upside: Ryan Kesler (less of a prick, but similar presence, offence and 2-way game as a centre)
• Likely: Filip Forsberg (versatile all-around top six winger)
• Best Sabre comparable: ??? (he might be around their stature, but he's too primal to be Luce, too big and fast to be Peca, not tough enough to be Foligno. Stepping down a notch, he's way too honest to be Gratton or McKegney; he's pretty unique for a Sabre)

Rasmus Dahlin:

• Upside: Erik Karlsson (elite, Norris Trophy winning offence-first defenceman)
• Likely: Karlsson (I still think he gets there)
• Best Sabre comparable: Phil Housley (the only one who really fits in terms of physical gifts, Rasmus will be more rounded)

Casey Mittelstadt:

• Upside: pre-concussion Tim Connolly (good 2C production, 1C highlight reel)
• More likely: John Tucker (top six talent who never could put it together)
• Best Sabre comparable: Derek Plante (guy who could produce when used in the top 6, but generally not someone you wanted to lean on when things got tough)

Henri Jokiharju:

• Upside: Jared Spurgeon (Smooth defender who rarely makes mistakes and can contribute in all 3 zones)
• More likely: Alex Goligoski (smooth defender who is best in transition but needs to be spotted to be at his most useful)
• Best Sabre comparable: Petr Svoboda (reliable 2nd-pairing guy with skill but not points)

Going to enjoy watching these guys develop the way Sam and Jack (and too few others) have over the past decade.

Good information and maybe an eye opener for me.   I sure hope you are wrong on a few of these guys.  
 

I have a much higher floor on Power than Johnson or Krup/Bodger.  I am thinking Pietrangelo is the floor.  
 

Quinn comparing to Pommer/Ramsey/Seiling -  I am hoping for a lesser version of Rick Martin.  Hoping this guy puts the puck into the net.  I do not think Pommer is that similar of a comparison to Rammer/Seiling.  The later two were checkers and Selke type wingers that could score. Pommer had more offensive upside. 
 

Cozens - how about Jonathon Toews or Getzloff on top end. Probably not that high.  Kessler would hopefully be the floor. 
 

I sure hope that Mitts has more upside than Connelly and Tucker.   Maybe in between them and Point?  
 

Dahlin better get going to get to Karlsson level.  This is a big year for him.  

Edited August 17, 2021 by Pimlach

[etiennep99]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

My take?

Owen Power:

• Upside: Alex Pietrangelo (all-situations, 1st-pairing defenceman, Olympic Team Canada-level but not Norris Trophy)
• Likely: Eric Johnson (all-situations #3 defenceman)
• Best Sabre comparable: Uwe Krupp/Doug Bodger (obvious physical gifts and top-four utility, but lacking that alpha chromosome)

Jack Quinn:

• Upside: Mark Stone (complete, all-around 1st-line wing)
• Likely: Ondrej Palat (complete, all-around 2nd-line wing)
• Best Sabre comparable: Jason Pominville/Craig Ramsey/Ric Seiling (he's going to be good and reliable for a long time, still not sure if he ends up known more for his scoring or his checking, but he will do both)

Dylan Cozens:

• Upside: Ryan Kesler (less of a prick, but similar presence, offence and 2-way game as a centre)
• Likely: Filip Forsberg (versatile all-around top six winger)
• Best Sabre comparable: ??? (he might be around their stature, but he's too primal to be Luce, too big and fast to be Peca, not tough enough to be Foligno. Stepping down a notch, he's way too honest to be Gratton or McKegney; he's pretty unique for a Sabre)

Rasmus Dahlin:

• Upside: Erik Karlsson (elite, Norris Trophy winning offence-first defenceman)
• Likely: Karlsson (I still think he gets there)
• Best Sabre comparable: Phil Housley (the only one who really fits in terms of physical gifts, Rasmus will be more rounded)

Casey Mittelstadt:

• Upside: pre-concussion Tim Connolly (good 2C production, 1C highlight reel)
• More likely: John Tucker (top six talent who never could put it together)
• Best Sabre comparable: Derek Plante (guy who could produce when used in the top 6, but generally not someone you wanted to lean on when things got tough)

Henri Jokiharju:

• Upside: Jared Spurgeon (Smooth defender who rarely makes mistakes and can contribute in all 3 zones)
• More likely: Alex Goligoski (smooth defender who is best in transition but needs to be spotted to be at his most useful)
• Best Sabre comparable: Petr Svoboda (reliable 2nd-pairing guy with skill but not points)

Going to enjoy watching these guys develop the way Sam and Jack (and too few others) have over the past decade.

Nice post.  I particularly like the Jack Quinn to Ric Seiling comparison.  I'd say that this works for pre-eye-injury Seiling, hopefully.

Mittelstadt's ultimate production seems more comparable to Eric Rasmussen.

Asplund's upside is Christian Ruuttu.

Tage's upside is Joel Armia.

You're correct that Dylan Cozens is hard to find a Sabre comparable.  What about Alan Haworth?  Dylan is bigger, but in regards to speed and scoring ability, doesn't Haworth seem like a match?  Haworth also had a number of penalties which seems to indicate some truculence. 

Don't sleep on Samuelsson.  He's gonna be a player.  Krupp seems to fit the upside profile better.

I like Bryson, but I doubt that he makes it to Krug level.

Is Ryan Johnson going to be Mark Psysk 2.0 on the Left?

Anyone have any thoughts on JJ Peterka? 

[dudacek]

34 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Quinn comparing to Pommer/Ramsey/Seiling -  I am hoping for a lesser version of Rick Martin.  Hoping this guy puts the puck into the net.  I do not think Pommer is that similar of a comparison to Rammer/Seiling.  The later two were checkers and Selke type wingers that could score. Pommer had more offensive upside. 
 

 

Reliable, diligent, honest, not particularly fast but relentless, not physically imposing but fearless, intelligent, able to contribute both ends of the ice: Pommer, Ramsay and Seiling weren't the same player, but those words describe all three, and they describe Quinn too.

What I was getting at with those comparables is that I could see Quinn settling in as any of those guys, given his skillset and approach to the game. He's got a spectrum of skills and it is unclear what NHL role they will develop into.

He does have a great shot and he can finish. He could be a good goal scorer in the NHL. But Rick Martin isn't a great comparable because Rick lived to score goals but didn't do much to prevent them. Quinn doesn't have that defined identity. He doesn't cheat. He's out there on the last shift of a one-goal game up, or down. And he doesn't lurk, he creates for himself and his linemates.

In Ottawa, he did pretty much everything at a high level — Marchand without the ***** factor. At the world juniors he was Ric Seiling.

It will be very interesting to see what elements of his game translate as a pro, how well the Sabres can develop him, and how long will it take.

Edited August 17, 2021 by dudacek

[Digger]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

For some reason y’all keep selling Casey short.  Last season all I heard on this board was Casey is a bust and will never amount to anything. Now, after proving you wrong, it’s he is worse then John Tucker and will never be counted on in the clutch.  Lol.  All this kid did last season was play clutch hockey.  Once inserted in the lineup full time, after soul sucking Rasputin was fired, all he did was play tough minutes as the no. 2 scoring at a 63 pt pace.  
https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-casey-mittelstadt-season-recap/c-325121364

Granato, like Chris Taylor the year before, thinks the world of this kid.  Maybe it’s time for people here to keep a more open mind on his potential.  

I agree that Mittelstadt is a very talented player and I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays and develops in the NHL this season.  I'm hoping for the best and that he gets as much support as he needs from Granato and the full player roster.  I'm hoping that he can help fill some of the void of Reinhart's smarts around the goal crease. 

My concern remains with his overall confidence.  He was given the 2C position when he started with the Sabres after we unwisely traded O'Reilly away.  It was a bad decision on paper and it was bad for Mittelstadt's development.  He was not ready for 2C minutes and it really hurt.

Last season we saw signs of him putting it all together and getting his confidence and belief that he can score and compete in the NHL.  This season it appears he's going to be out in the 1C position because of lack of options.  Again it seems like a tough position to be putting him into.  It will be an interesting year.

[dudacek]

Sabres are operating as if they think Casey can be a legit top 6 centre.

Everybody thought that in 2018, nobody in 2020.

He was definitely fun to watch to finish 2021; I finally started seeing the swagger I saw when he was a junior.

He's one of the reasons I will be watching this year.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, etiennep99 said:

 

Mittelstadt's ultimate production seems more comparable to Eric Rasmussen.

 

Mitts had 10 goals in just  41 games last season.  He had 12 goals in 77 games when rushed into the lineup at 20 years old.  He will likely score more than that this season.  

Rasmussen has 52 career goals in 9 NHL seasons.  His highest goal level was 12 in 81 games. He was never a playmaker either (76 lifetime assists), he was a 4th line player.  

I still hold hope that Mitts can be like Pommer someday  

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Pimlach

[etiennep99]

Yup. Rasmussen seems low.  Perhaps 1/2 Rasmussen - 1/2 Plante.

[Digger]

30 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Mitts had 10 goals in just  41 games last season.  He had 12 goals in 77 games when rushed into the lineup at 20 years old.  He will likely score more than that this season.  

Rasmussen has 52 career goals in 9 NHL seasons.  His highest goal level was 12 in 81 games. He was never a playmaker either (76 lifetime assists), he was a 4th line player.  
 

 

1 hour ago, etiennep99 said:

Mittelstadt's ultimate production seems more comparable to Eric Rasmussen.

I know at one point Casey Mittelstadt was training with Erik Rasmussen in the off seasons.  It's kind of funny, but hopefully the student is much better than the teacher.  I'm sure he will be much better overall.

[Zamboni]

I can see Mitts having a similar career (points wise) as Pominville. Some years he’s only grabbing you 35-40 points per season. And other years he’s at 70-75 points per season. Barring injury obviously. 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Digger said:

This season it appears he's going to be out in the 1C position because of lack of options.

Rather than Mitts at 1C, I would at least try Girgensons in that role.  He's defensively responsible and has shown decent offense in the past, but with the tank fruit he slid down the depth chart.  It might be purely sacrificial to put him in at 1C but if Mitts isn't ready I'd hate to ruin him... again... by putting him in over his head.  I think Girgs is mentally tougher at these stages in their respective careers.

[Weave]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I'll wait and see, just like the rest of the kids.  No use in arguing about it and insisting (as some posters on this thread) that he will fail to hit is ceiling.

Say my name, b!###!  Lol

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Rather than Mitts at 1C, I would at least try Girgensons in that role.  He's defensively responsible and has shown decent offense in the past, but with the tank fruit he slid down the depth chart.  It might be purely sacrificial to put him in at 1C but if Mitts isn't ready I'd hate to ruin him... again... by putting him in over his head.  I think Girgs is mentally tougher at these stages in their respective careers.

Abso-freaking-lutely