Goaltending this season and Beyond

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Sabres organization have 5 goalies under contract for next season.  All 5 goalies played in the NHL last season.

The biggest news here this off-season is KA losing Ullmark to Boston.  Despite playing on the worst team in the NHL, Ullmark, when healthy, protected the net well enough that the Sabres played at a playoff caliber level in games he started.

KAs response was to sign 40 year old free agent Craig Anderson and 30 something Aaron Dell to veteran minimum contracts.  He also re-signed Houser to a minor league deal.   They will compete with high ranking prospect UPL and veteran Tokarski come camp.

KA said the competition is wide open and if UPL makes the Sabres he makes the Sabres.  

Any idea who played the most in the NHL last season.  Tokarski. 13 games. Dell was second with 7.  The other 3 played 4 games each.  Kind of scary.  

I know KA is tanking but imho getting 2 scrap head goalies is not exactly a way to support a young D group or making us harder to play against.  

If I had to guess, Tokarski and Anderson start the season in Buffalo splitting the net.  I also see UPL getting spot starts periodically.

Edited February 11, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[klos1963]

It's quite the mess right now.  I'm guessing they're hoping UPL can do well enough in Rochester to earn a callup maybe after the new year. He hasn't played many games since his surgery and his stint in Rochester was underwhelming.  If the team plays like they did late in the season, the poor goaltending will be really frustrating again.

 

[dudacek]

If the current group is what we start the season with, UPL will be given every opportunity to be the starter.

Still think there will be another NHL body brought in before then.

Edited August 6, 2021 by dudacek

[bob_sauve28]

This situation is really depressing. Good young team with no real goaltending. Maybe the Eichel deal-if it ever happens— snags us a real goaltender. Maybe in training camp something shakes lose on another team and we get a decent goaltender. But right now we are looking at another disaster season coming. 

[PromoTheRobot]

54 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

This situation is really depressing. Good young team with no real goaltending. Maybe the Eichel deal-if it ever happens— snags us a real goaltender. Maybe in training camp something shakes lose on another team and we get a decent goaltender. But right now we are looking at another disaster season coming. 

They have some good goaltending prospects but no one obviously ready to step in now. My guess is UPL will be the starter with Anderson as the 1-B and mentor.

The Sabres will just have to score more.

Edited August 6, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

This situation is really depressing. Good young team with no real goaltending. Maybe the Eichel deal-if it ever happens— snags us a real goaltender. Maybe in training camp something shakes lose on another team and we get a decent goaltender. But right now we are looking at another disaster season coming. 

Agree it’s depressing.  A strong goalie that steals games can help a young team learn how to win.  It least we have 3 in the  pipeline, I hope UPL takes a big step.  

[dudacek]

Anderson played 4 games last year, 34 two years ago. He’s 40 years old and people thought he was retired.

Dell played 7 games last year and 33 is his career high. He’s 32 and had some of the worst numbers in the NHL last year.

It’s a bit of a stretch to count on either to be a competent backup this year. No one in the industry expects either to be a starter.

UPL has shown nothing to indicate he will be ready next year; ideally he plays 55 games in Rochester and maybe gets a look late in Buffalo.

One of these three will be counted on to be the backbone of a young, mistake-prone team - a safety net to help them learn and develop.

It makes no sense at all.

They have to get another goalie.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:09 AM, dudacek said:

Anderson played 4 games last year, 34 two years ago. He’s 40 years old and people thought he was retired.

Dell played 7 games last year and 33 is his career high. He’s 32 and had some of the worst numbers in the NHL last year.

It’s a bit of a stretch to count on either to be a competent backup this year. No one in the industry expects either to be a starter.

UPL has shown nothing to indicate he will be ready next year; ideally he plays 55 games in Rochester and maybe gets a look late in Buffalo.

One of these three will be counted on to be the backbone of a young, mistake-prone team - a safety net to help them learn and develop.

It makes no sense at all.

They have to get another goalie.

It should have already happened. KA had no plan B when Ullmark walked.  It’s pretty clear that any goalie who had another option took it.  The trade market is his only method now of improving this woeful situation, but he has steadfastly refused to take a chance and acquire somehow.  As I pointed out in the expansion thread he has opportunities there and again when Vanecek was traded back to Washington for WPG 2nd in 2023.  It seems like he is waiting on someone to get waived during training camp.  Last season he had a chance to upgrade Hutton right before the season started when both Forsberg and Nedeljkovics were waived but did claim either player.  Maybe he is hoping lightning strikes twice.

Dallas for example has Bishop, Holtby and Khudobin on their current roster.  One of them won’t be there when the season starts.  

Edited January 28, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LabattBlue]

Look at the current set of organization goaltenders, and only one word comes to mind for the 21-22 season...TANK.  If the plan was to sign Ullmark, then I refuse to believe this is Plan B. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by LabattBlue

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Look at the current set of organization goaltenders, and only one word comes to mind for the 21-22 season...TANK.  If the plan was to sign Ullmark, then I refuse to believe this is Plan B. 

That’s clearly the disconnect.  Why try to re-sign Ullmark if the plan is to tank.  If the plan isn’t to tank but give support to a young team and help them compete, then why sign two goalies who played only 11 NHL games last year.  Getting a solid experienced goalie can only help the team and won’t block UPL from taking the job when he is ready.  

[jad1]

We've seen this before, too many times.

An inexperienced, but overconfident GM is hired because a gullible owner buys the bs line that the GM can win if he can bring in "his guys."

So the new GM removes any 'win now' pressure by trading away the best players on the current roster for future picks so that he can draft his 'guys.'

But the GM is also incompetent so he screws up hiring a coaching staff, and his draft strategy is questionable, so he panics and undercuts his build for the future by making bad trades and even worse FA signings.

Meanwhile, his equally inexperienced coaches that he hand-picked make hash out of player development and day-to-day operations.

The talented players who are actually producing under this chaotic situation voice their frustration and are then signaled out by the GM as being part of the problem, and are eventually moved for more futures.

The owner, who willingly sacrifices any chance to win now in favor of the GM's build for the future plan, gets fed up with the losing, criticism, and $6 game tickets after a couple of seasons and fires the GM and coaching staff, looking for candidates that are even more inexperienced and arrogant to hire as the replacement.

So here we are, 2nd year under the Adams administration.  Still no legitimate 2C.  Still no legitimate NHL goalie.  No scoring depth.  No clear cut top pair on defense.

And no expectation that the Sabres will compete for the playoffs, and yet somehow we believe that these young guys will deal with the oppressive losing brought on by the incompetence of the front office better than previous group of young players did.  That they will deal with losing better, because they really, really, really want to be here, and the previous guys didn't.

What's the definition of insanity again?

[Norcal]

Im not convinced the brain trust is done on this front.

No sense getting too upset about it just yet.

If they go to training camp with the current crop, then I'll worry. 

I expect a trade.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s clearly the disconnect.  Why try to re-sign Ullmark if the plan is to tank.  If the plan isn’t to tank but give support to a young team and help them compete, then why sign two goalies who played only 11 NHL games last year.  Getting a solid experienced goalie can only help the team and won’t block UPL from taking the job when he is ready.  

Did they really try that hard to sign Linus though?  They wouldn’t offer term and they wouldn’t beat the $$s.  Wouldn’t surprise me if they made a token effort but weren’t terribly serious about it.  I don’t see a disconnect really.

[GASabresIUFAN]

25 minutes ago, Weave said:

Did they really try that hard to sign Linus though?  They wouldn’t offer term and they wouldn’t beat the $$s.  Wouldn’t surprise me if they made a token effort but weren’t terribly serious about it.  I don’t see a disconnect really.

I think they made a legit offer.  Probably similar term and $ to Boston. Ullmark correctly said for that term and money I rather play for a winning organization in my prime.  I would have made the same decision.  I do think KA really wanted him back because we were a playoff caliber team with him in net the last 2 seasons.  Unfortunately KA clearly didn't have a plan B and it cost us dearly so far.  That doesn't mean the hockey G-ds won't present another opportunity to fix the issue.  As I noted above Dallas has 3 goalies and one is going to be cut or traded at some point this fall.  Whether KA is open to said opportunity is another matter.  Dallas isn't the only team in that situation, but they seem the most likely target given the goalies and their cap situation.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think they made a legit offer.  Probably similar term and $ to Boston. Ullmark correctly said for that term and money I rather play for a winning organization in my prime.  I would have made the same decision.  I do think KA really wanted him back because we were a playoff caliber team with him in net the last 2 seasons.  Unfortunately KA clearly didn't have a plan B and it cost us dearly so far.  That doesn't mean the hockey G-ds won't present another opportunity to fix the issue.  As I noted above Dallas has 3 goalies and one is going to be cut or traded at some point this fall.  Whether KA is open to said opportunity is another matter.  Dallas isn't the only team in that situation, but they seem the most likely target given the goalies and their cap situation.

Do you really think KA put all his eggs in the Linus basket if his goal was to have competent goaltending?  No plan B should tell you everything you need to know.  Linus was not critical to their plan (setting up for the future).  Again, there is no disconnect.  Its pretty clear that this is another throw away season by design, and you don’t woo decent goaltending if your goal is a throwaway season.  
 

I get you don’t like or trust KA, but a plan B is basic ***** that even internet amateurs would figure out if good goaltending was important.  KA is at least at that level of competence, and almost certainly more than that. Good goaltending was obviously not important to the short term plan.

[Mustache of God]

If Tokarski starts the season on this team I will go down there and spit on keybank center.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

Do you really think KA put all his eggs in the Linus basket if his goal was to have competent goaltending?  No plan B should tell you everything you need to know.  Linus was not critical to their plan (setting up for the future).  Again, there is no disconnect.  Its pretty clear that this is another throw away season by design, and you don’t woo decent goaltending if your goal is a throwaway season.  
 

I get you don’t like or trust KA, but a plan B is basic ***** that even internet amateurs would figure out if good goaltending was important.  KA is at least at that level of competence, and almost certainly more than that. Good goaltending was obviously not important to the short term plan.

You don’t even make Linus an offer if you are moving on.  I think it was more a case that every UFA except those who couldn’t get a job elsewhere laughed at him when he called.  

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You don’t even make Linus an offer if you are moving on.  I think it was more a case that every UFA except those who couldn’t get a job elsewhere laughed at him when he called.  

It. Wasn’t. A. Serious.  Offer.

Optics.  Nothing else.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

It. Wasn’t. A. Serious.  Offer.

Optics.  Nothing else.

I respectfully disagree.  KA protected him in expansion to preserve his exclusive negotiating rights.  Reliable people like our Tom Webster and media members like Chad D said he was nearly signed.  They clearly made a serious offer.  KA then misjudged the FA market for his open jobs.  He foolishly said he didn’t want to trade assets for a goaltender.  Why is this statement foolish? Because getting a goaltender like Vanecek for a 2nd rd pick in 2023 would be a huge asset.  I think you are giving KA to much credit for managing optics.  If he had that much savvy he be a better trade negotiator.

[Eleven]

Has a team ever played an entire game with six skaters?  I think the Sabres should give it a try if the roster stays the same as it is today.

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, Weave said:

It. Wasn’t. A. Serious.  Offer.

Optics.  Nothing else.

I could be misremembering, but wasn’t it reported that they offered Linus very similar money to Boston, but they were only willing to go so far on term, and Boston offered more?

[Eleven]

13 minutes ago, Curt said:

I could be misremembering, but wasn’t it reported that they offered Linus very similar money to Boston, but they were only willing to go so far on term, and Boston offered more?

I don't remember that; I seem to remember that they were nearly identical but Ullmark chose the team he is more likely to have success with.

[bob_sauve28]

6 hours ago, Norcal said:

Im not convinced the brain trust is done on this front.

No sense getting too upset about it just yet.

If they go to training camp with the current crop, then I'll worry. 

I expect a trade.

Not sure there is a trade to be had. There is a goalie shortage and we are like the team in musical chairs that got caught standing when the music stopped. Unless there is a goalie in the Eichel Trade (if that ever happens) not sure we get one that way. 

[French Collection]

Something could shake loose from Dallas.

They have Bishop, Khudobin, Holtby and Oettinger.

Bishop has had injury issues and may not be ready for Oct.

Khudobin is a solid 1B that took them to the finals last year.

Holtby has declined but is an NHL goalie.

Oettinger is their goalie of the future and may be ready now.

[nfreeman]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:09 AM, dudacek said:

Anderson played 4 games last year, 34 two years ago. He’s 40 years old and people thought he was retired.

Dell played 7 games last year and 33 is his career high. He’s 32 and had some of the worst numbers in the NHL last year.

It’s a bit of a stretch to count on either to be a competent backup this year. No one in the industry expects either to be a starter.

UPL has shown nothing to indicate he will be ready next year; ideally he plays 55 games in Rochester and maybe gets a look late in Buffalo.

One of these three will be counted on to be the backbone of a young, mistake-prone team - a safety net to help them learn and develop.

It makes no sense at all.

They have to get another goalie.

 

On 8/6/2021 at 11:28 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

It should have already happened. KA had no plan B when Ullmark walked.  It’s pretty clear that any goalie who had another option took it.  The trade market is his only method now of improving this woeful situation, but he has steadfastly refused to take a chance and acquire somehow.  As I pointed out in the expansion thread he has opportunities there and again when Vanecek was traded back to Washington for WPG 2nd in 2023.  It seems like he is waiting on someone to get waived during training camp.  Last season he had a chance to upgrade Hutton right before the season started when both Forsberg and Nedeljkovics were waived but did clai. Either player.  Maybe he is hoping lightning strikes twice.

Dallas for example has Bishop, Holtby and Khudobin on their current roster.  One of them won’t be there when the season starts.  

 

On 8/6/2021 at 11:34 AM, LabattBlue said:

Look at the current set of organization goaltenders, and only one word comes to mind for the 21-22 season...TANK.  If the plan was to sign Ullmark, then I refuse to believe this is Plan B. 

 

On 8/6/2021 at 12:21 PM, Norcal said:

Im not convinced the brain trust is done on this front.

No sense getting too upset about it just yet.

If they go to training camp with the current crop, then I'll worry. 

I expect a trade.

Good hockey talk here boys.

IMHO, if they don’t bring in another goalie who is more credible than the current group, they are clearly tanking, which I will not be OK with.  
 

 

23 hours ago, Curt said:

I could be misremembering, but wasn’t it reported that they offered Linus very similar money to Boston, but they were only willing to go so far on term, and Boston offered more?

Yes.  Vogl reported this.