Linus Ullmark: signs with Boston Bruins

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Who said he did this?

Chad hinted at it and modo suspiciously decided to keep his conversation quiet. I also think the appearance of Adams being caught flat-footed, which fits in nicely with my characterization of him being a player friendly GM, also jives with this scenario.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, SDS said:

I will push back on this because it is along your line of reasoning and say assigning blame is what many people try to do here.

We just argue from different viewpoints. 

I argue from the point of view of they are being paid to get the job done. Not try to get the job done. It doesn't matter if there are extenuating circumstances - there *always* are - there are also multiple avenues to build a winning roster. If you can't build a winning roster, you shouldn't be GM. 

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

Chad hinted at it and modo suspiciously decided to keep his conversation quiet. I also think the appearance of Adams being caught flat-footed, which fits in nicely with my characterization of him being a player friendly GM, also jives with this scenario.

Like last season? He failed to upgrade the goaltending when it mattered then too. Modo is your source? What did Chad say?

Didn't he say something like "the sabres felt they had a deal"

SO?!!!

lol come on

Adams "felt" the roster was good last season too

He felt Irwin is a good signing. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Or good negotiating by an agent who is looking out for his/her client and hoping to let him/her be a winner with a good organization.

The integrity of the individual rests on what was said or implied in the negotiation.

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Who said he did this?

It’s implied that this is the same offer. How that offer was negotiated is unknown.

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We just argue from different viewpoints. 

I argue from the point of view of they are being paid to get the job done. Not try to get the job done. It doesn't matter if there are extenuating circumstances - there *always* are - there are also multiple avenues to build a winning roster. If you can't build a winning roster, you shouldn't be GM. 

Should he step down?

I allow for the fact that I have no control over the situation and if someone offered me the chance to GM a professional hockey team I would take it. If Kevin got burned today because he had a Jerry Maguire “my word is as strong as oak“ moment, then so be it. We are in a situation that he is extremely green and we will have to live through his growing pains.

[Thorny]

Just now, dudacek said:

The integrity of the individual rests on what was said or implied in the negotiation.

It’s implied that this is the same offer. How that offer was negotiated is unknown.

Right. It could be literally anything. He needs to be judged on results without the full picture. People can't point to unknowns as the base of their argument when those can work in both ways. 

[Rasmus_]

Current status of the Sabres, from Linus Ullmark to Aaron Dell / Anderson / Tokarski / Houser.

[Pimlach]

52 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The Sabres offered the $5M per year.

Then Linus wanted out simply to get away from the toxic environment and the losing. 

I wonder if the Sabres had a chance to counter when Boston matched the offer?  I am fed up and very curious to see if KA can find 2 NHL goalies and how much he had to pay. 

The front office, the coaching staff, and the players all have to stop accepting the losing.  I am not expecting a playoff team.  Give me a team like the expansion 70 and 71 teams.  At least they tried hard and put up a fight. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Pimlach

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Right. It could be literally anything. He needs to be judged on results without the full picture. People can't point to unknowns as the base of their argument when those can work in both ways. 

You’re talking about Adams, obviously, and I agree.

My posts about this were focused on Ullmark and whether or not he was being straight with the Sabres.

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, SDS said:

Should he step down?

I allow for the fact that I have no control over the situation and if someone offered me the chance to GM a professional hockey team I would take it. If Kevin got burned today because he had a Jerry Maguire “my word is as strong as oak“ moment, then so be it. We are in a situation that he is extremely green and we will have to live through his growing pains.

I don't think he should step down. Do you see me creating fire KA threads? Or saying to fire KA? Haven't uttered a single word in that way

My biggest pet peeve though is the alleviation of blame because "we don't know what happened". We do know something big, though - we know what the result was in terms of roster additions in net (at least so far, obviously). That's the only thing we can judge it on - until we see what happens on the ice. But there's no logical place for a "no one is really to blame, they are beholden to the circumstances" argument, because the Sabres have proven to be a statistical outlier for an exceptionally large period of time, a crater of ineptitude - for that to happen randomly stretches the logic of reason - they are actively cultivating that environment with errors in judgement. 

They have awful results relative to every one of their peers, and they all face the same issues and are beholden to the same factors 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Then Linus wanted out simply to get away from the toxic environment and the losing. 

I wonder if the Sabres had a chance to counter when Boston matched the offer?  I am fed up and very curious to see if KA can find 2 NHL goalies and how much he had to pay. 

The front office, the coaching staff, and the players all have to stop accepting the losing.  I am not expecting a playoff team.  Give me a team like the expansion 70 and 71 teams.  At least they tried hard and out up a fight. 

 

 

This. 

If the bolded was true, then he should have told the Sabres that at the trade deadline, never mind this morning.

He obviously gave the Sabres the sense the door was still open when he hadn’t signed by the deadline, and he literally did this after all of the Sabres legitimate backup options were gone.

Adams wears it regardless, but it’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited July 29, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorny]

The quote is overused but it's necessary here (where is @DarthEbriatewhen you need him)

Do or do not. There is not try. 10 years, it has been. (paraphrased)

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This. 

If the bolded was true, than he should have told the Sabres that at the deadline, never mind this morning.

He obviously gave the Sabres the sense the door was still open when he hadn’t signed by the deadline, and he literally did this after all of the Sabres legitimate backup options were gone.

 

What Ullmark said was irrelevant if he hadn't signed on the dotted line. 

They neglected to deal him at the deadline to keep an exclusive negotiating window, and protected him in the expansion draft - the *entire point* of either and both of those things is to maintain your exclusive negotiating window. They didn't use it! If they couldn't get it locked in before he officially hit UFA, they would have to be completely bumbling to not act on another goalie, when there were still tons available, when they knew damn well Ullmark hadn't actually signed yet. What did they think he was doing? Lol

Willful ignorance, at best

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thorny

[apuszczalowski]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Then Linus wanted out simply to get away from the toxic environment and the losing. 

I wonder if the Sabres had a chance to counter when Boston matched the offer?  I am fed up and very curious to see if KA can find 2 NHL goalies and how much he had to pay. 

The front office, the coaching staff, and the players all have to stop accepting the losing.  I am not expecting a playoff team.  Give me a team like the expansion 70 and 71 teams.  At least they tried hard and out up a fight. 

As fans, we all want that, unfortunately it seems ownership and the front office believe this is the way to get better. That you have to hit rock bottom first before you can try to improve. Instead of bringing ladders to get themselves out of the hole they are in, they think its best to bring in an excavator and dynamite to get themselves out.

 

Its funny because when TP came here, teh team was a middle of the pact team that could fluctuate between possibly going deep into the playoffs or just missing out and fans were sick of 'just making the playoffs' they assumed you just need to get bad to rebuild yourself into a dynasty. This is now the third time the teams has been 'rebuilding' and they still cant dig themselves out of a hole and fans would look at being a playoff contender as being a good goal to be at.

[klos1963]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Then Linus wanted out simply to get away from the toxic environment and the losing. 

I wonder if the Sabres had a chance to counter when Boston matched the offer?  I am fed up and very curious to see if KA can find 2 NHL goalies and how much he had to pay. 

The front office, the coaching staff, and the players all have to stop accepting the losing.  I am not expecting a playoff team.  Give me a team like the expansion 70 and 71 teams.  At least they tried hard and out up a fight. 

 

 

Yeah Punch, but you were smart enough to get Roger Crozier. He helped make us competitive much of the time.

[apuszczalowski]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What Ullmark said was irrelevant if he hadn't signed on the dotted line. 

They neglected to deal him at the deadline to keep an exclusive negotiating window, and protected him in the expansion draft - the *entire point* of either and both of those things is to maintain your exclusive negotiating window. They didn't use it! If they couldn't get it locked in before he officially hit UFA, they would have to be completely bumbling to not act on another goalie, when there were still tons available, when they knew damn well Ullmark hadn't actually signed yet. What did they think he was doing? Lol

I'm not going to defend Adams or the front office, but from whats being said, Ullmark was considering staying and esigning, but he was not ruling out leaving if given a better opportunity. He negotiated with the team and had an offer from them today. It sounds like he was ready to sign but he (or his agent or both) decided to check with other teams that were interested and see if they would match or exceed Buffalos offer and the Bruins were willing to do it. So he chose to move on. Unless Adams had the signed offer sitting on his desk to be forwarded to the league office, he can't just assume Ullmark is going to be back, he has to be out working on deals for others with the hope that Ullmark does accept it. It almost seems like Adams only interest was in bringing back Ullmark or going with whatever was left on the market to compete with the youth on the roster. It seems like they weren't interested in chasing after any of the other goalies available and figured it was Ullmark or scraps to just get through the season until one of the younger guys is ready.

[Pimlach]

14 minutes ago, SDS said:

Should he step down?

I allow for the fact that I have no control over the situation and if someone offered me the chance to GM a professional hockey team I would take it. If Kevin got burned today because he had a Jerry Maguire “my word is as strong as oak“ moment, then so be it. We are in a situation that he is extremely green and we will have to live through his growing pains.

I think the fan base is past the point of “so be it”.   That’s 3 extremely green GMs in a row.  
 

This situation has not played out, let’s see who KA gets, and how much he pays.

So far I’m very skeptical.  

[SDS]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What Ullmark said was irrelevant if he hadn't signed on the dotted line. 

They neglected to deal him at the deadline to keep an exclusive negotiating window, and protected him in the expansion draft - the *entire point* of either and both of those things is to maintain your exclusive negotiating window. They didn't use it! If they couldn't get it locked in before he officially hit UFA, they would have to be completely bumbling to not act on another goalie, when there were still tons available, when they knew damn well Ullmark hadn't actually signed yet. What did they think he was doing? Lol

Willful ignorance, at best

Why can’t it be both? Why can’t Linus have done a douchey thing, AND Adam’s failed to see the risk?

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This. 

If the bolded was true, then he should have told the Sabres that at the trade deadline, never mind this morning.

He obviously gave the Sabres the sense the door was still open when he hadn’t signed by the deadline, and he literally did this after all of the Sabres legitimate backup options were gone.

Adams wears it regardless, but it’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

So, even if I’m saying it awkwardly, I think we see the situation exactly the same.

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Yeah Punch, but you were smart enough to get Roger Crozier. He helped make us competitive much of the time.

It can’t be this hard.  This is both sad and sorry.  

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What Ullmark said was irrelevant if he hadn't signed on the dotted line. 

They neglected to deal him at the deadline to keep an exclusive negotiating window, and protected him in the expansion draft - the *entire point* of either and both of those things is to maintain your exclusive negotiating window. They didn't use it! If they couldn't get it locked in before he officially hit UFA, they would have to be completely bumbling to not act on another goalie, when there were still tons available, when they knew damn well Ullmark hadn't actually signed yet. What did they think he was doing? Lol

Willful ignorance, at best

What Ullmark said is not irrelevant to the respect I have or do not have for him. That’s what I’m pondering.

Adams obviously ***** this up. That’s not even a conversation.

[Thorny]

Smart Sabres twitter says we are doing it right, btw. For those that are leaning that way. 

Maybe it's true. Maybe I am too biased against the strategy because I don't want it to happen, don't believe it will work. I don't want to waste two more years watching a bad team. I can't get on board with it. 

But it's out there. 

[Huckleberry]

But jesus christ why the bruins, I liked ullmark 😞

[thewookie1]

The worst part is now I have to wish I’ll will against a goalie I liked. 

I honestly don’t know what it will take for the Pegulas to just ###% off and bring in an experienced hockey guy to run their franchise. Or sell them to another owner who will keep them in Buffalo permanently and spend money on making them good.

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Smart Sabres twitter says we are doing it right, btw. For those that are leaning that way. 

Maybe it's true. Maybe I am too biased against the strategy because I don't want it to happen, don't believe it will work. I don't want to waste two more years watching a bad team. I can't get on board with it. 

But it's out there. 

Who knows at this point; maybe they’re playing 4D chess and trying to tank without actually tanking. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

The worst part is now I have to wish I’ll will against a goalie I liked. 

I honestly don’t know what it will take for the Pegulas to just ###% off and bring in an experienced hockey guy to run their franchise. Or sell them to another owner who will keep them in Buffalo permanently and spend money on making them good.

Who knows at this point; maybe they’re playing 4D chess and trying to tank without actually tanking. 

I think they are tanking by tanking 

[irregularly irregular]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Minimize the monetary losses in what was sure to be a painful season at the box office, keep the payroll clear of liabilities such as hard-to-liquidate contracts, and set yourself up with access to a steady supply of cheap talent with outstanding growth potential to make yourself as attractive as possible to a new buyer.

It’s so freaking obvious with every step they’ve taken, I can’t believe I’m the only one who sees it.

Maybe it's just that Terry has lost his love for the game?

[thewookie1]

Just now, Thorny said:

I think they are tanking by tanking 

What I’m trying to say is rather than chopping the knees off the team so that you lose; you build a team that likely won’t win much but is trending up versus down.