Incomplete/faulty analysis on the tank

[JoeSchmoe]

So..........

Is this another internet fight about the tank?

Edited June 17, 2021 by JoeSchmoe

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

So..........

Is this another internet fight about the tank?

Crabcakes and tank-talk, that's what Maryland does 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

When thoughtful people put together a plan, you just don’t look at the best case scenario and say that’s our direction. People do risk analysis. They ask “what if”.

The best case scenario for the tank was to acquire Jack Eichel and use the remaining assets to build a contender. That implies a better team drafting in the late first round.

but when sitting down in devising a plan, what was the “what if“ if I contender failed to materialize? 

One logical outcome is that we continue to draft high choices. i.e. We just continue to acquire more talent.

Dylan Cozens is as much a product of the tank as Sam and Jack. So is Casey, so is Rasmus, so is Quinn. You can extend this to those high second rounders too.

Just because option one didn’t pan out, doesn’t mean that option two still isn’t in progress.

This line of reasoning works because the rebuild was inseparable from the tank.  7yrs later its still linked.

We had a tank so thorough, so unprecedented, that 7 yrs into it we are still in suffering.  Jack is 24 and this team has still not recovered from the means that were used to acquire him. And Sam is a year older.

7 years is basically a pro athlete generation.  Normal rebuilds are expected to take less time. 

 

 

 

[PASabreFan]

47 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

So..........

Is this another internet fight about the tank?

Damn, I'd love to fill that up. So ample and full-bodied. Gotta run about 5k gallons. I could be off. @Taro T?

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I think we can thank China and their laboratory that inadvertently or advertantly unleashed the pandemic that created the necessity of the divisional realignment that resulted in us being forced to play in a stacked East Division which caused the team to lose far more games than we would have compared to the standard Northeast division. 🤪

This is blatantly wrong. Who would we have beaten in our usual division? red Wings and New Jersey that's a wash. Maybe Ottawa, but they were tough and played well second half. Everybody else was a playoff team and two of them are final 4.  Unless we get substantially better, we're 7th place at best next year. 

idk why people are stuck on the tank. Maybe that's a problem with the franchise. Always whining and blaming. Ya, it failed. They didn't get McDavid. Eichel's a really good hockey player but not "generational". Kane was a punk and didn't blossom into the power winger beside Eichel that he was supposed to be. Lehner lost his ***** and crapped out so no goalie. ROR didn't like being a #2 center and lost his love. We hired the wrong coaches. Traded away or squandered too many draft picks. Multiple mistakes were made. It's a long list.

and it hasn't stopped yet. Yes, Cozens seems like he was a good pick. there's a few decent prospects, but SO FAR, any change is just hypothetical. To this point, KA has done absolutely nothing good and nothing that gives one any faith in this improving any time soon. Until he actually does something good, all we have to look forward to is a top draft pick, again. 

Forget the tank. All these years later we should be better. Really, it's kind of hard to stay this bad this long. It takes real ineptitude. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Damn, I'd love to fill that up. So ample and full-bodied. Gotta run about 5k gallons. I could be off. @Taro T?

Label says 750.

[JoeSchmoe]

38 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is blatantly wrong. Who would we have beaten in our usual division? red Wings and New Jersey that's a wash. Maybe Ottawa, but they were tough and played well second half. Everybody else was a playoff team and two of them are final 4.  Unless we get substantially better, we're 7th place at best next year. 

idk why people are stuck on the tank. Maybe that's a problem with the franchise. Always whining and blaming. Ya, it failed. They didn't get McDavid. Eichel's a really good hockey player but not "generational". Kane was a punk and didn't blossom into the power winger beside Eichel that he was supposed to be. Lehner lost his ***** and crapped out so no goalie. ROR didn't like being a #2 center and lost his love. We hired the wrong coaches. Traded away or squandered too many draft picks. Multiple mistakes were made. It's a long list.

and it hasn't stopped yet. Yes, Cozens seems like he was a good pick. there's a few decent prospects, but SO FAR, any change is just hypothetical. To this point, KA has done absolutely nothing good and nothing that gives one any faith in this improving any time soon. Until he actually does something good, all we have to look forward to is a top draft pick, again. 

Forget the tank. All these years later we should be better. Really, it's kind of hard to stay this bad this long. It takes real ineptitude. 

Are you challenging me to a tank fight on the internet? 

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Neither.  If that happens, I'd say it's because Adams pulled off some amazing trades.  The tank is 7 years ago now.

That's part of what I was getting at in the dawning thread: moving those guys essentially closes the book on the tank.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Oh yes they did.  I think it was the Pens and Devils in a chase to the bottom.  Paging @Taro T

Correct.

When it became obvious that both were bad, they both raced to the bottom.

The Pens were better at it, having done so the previous year after swapping 1st rounders w/ Minny mid-season.  D'oh!

The Devils wanted 1st overall, but being a "Mickey Mouse organization" couldn't even get that right.  The Pens made it their reason for existence from NYE on.

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

That's part of what I was getting at in the dawning thread: moving those guys essentially closes the book on the tank.

I prefer the dawning of a new era way of looking at it rather then closing on the tank so half full not half empty positive over negative blah blah blah. I just want a reason to be hopeful and care. 

[Taro T]

IMHO, they had the tank which began under Regier and was completed by Murray.

They then followed that up w/ a reset /partial tank/ whatever when O'Reilly was traded away for the spare change Armstrong found under the cushions of his office couch.

Further IMHO, Cozens, Quinn, & 1OA are products of the failed reset.  Keeping ROR may not have been enough on its own to get them into the playoffs, but at minimum they would've had Moe-ray-all's spot in the pseudo playoffs & very likely could've beat the Pens as well in that miniseries.  Again, IMHO.

Who knows, avoid that 1 huge blunder & they likely wouldn't have traded for Skinner which means they might have ended up with him the following year as a FA for more like $6MM over 7 years rather than $9MM over 8.  He wouldn't've had the monster year & the Sabres would presumably still be one of 3 teams he'd want to play for.

[Zamboni]

people have their own little definition of what the tank is /was and what the rebuild is. You aren’t going to change their mind in how they define either. Even if you enjoy telling a person that they are wrong in their own definition or opinion of a tank or rebuild. And what player we got during a tank or rebuild portion of time.  That to me, has been abundantly clear ever since we acquired Eichel.

[FogBat]

6 hours ago, SDS said:

butterflies flapping their wings. 

Thanks for the stock tip! Caterpillar seems like a good investment right now.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

people have their own little definition of what the tank is /was and what the rebuild is. You aren’t going to change their mind in how they define either. Even if you enjoy telling a person that they are wrong in their own definition or opinion of a tank or rebuild. And what player we got during a tank or rebuild portion of time.  That to me, has been abundantly clear ever since we acquired Eichel.

Indeed.

 

[kas23]

Ironic thing is if we had kept GMTM, or in the very least kept ROR, we’d likely be having a very different conversation. The tank in itself was successful. We drafted a “generational” talent, which we still have the rights to. What we definitely failed is forming a cohesive team beyond the tank. So, the tank itself was not sufficient for forming a competitive team. This is obvious.

 

However, this story hasn’t ended yet. We have Eichel and Rhino, which we’ll likely flip for (hopefully important) assets in the very near future. These are assets we would not be acquiring if not for the tank. I’m still interested in where this goes. And I’m sure everyone else posting here is too. 

[apuszczalowski]

The Sabres didn't Tank for Eichel, he was the loser prize, the Tank was for McDavid.

[LongTimeSabresFan]

Was it a "Tank" or just poor management?

The Sabres suck and have sucked for one reason.  Very poor management.  How they sucked or why they sucked is irrelevant.  If a team purposefully loses to acquire a "good" player, then it sucked and did so because of poor management.  Unintentional or intentional sucking are neither qualities the ownership should be looking for in a GM! Compare the Sabres to the Bills.  There are absolutely no similarities between the two organizations as the Bills went from a bad team to a good team completely without any tanking or intentional sucking.  They did so because its management was not incompetent and knew what it was doing.  Brandon Beane is lightyears better than any of the loser GMs the Sabres have had.  The Sabres have been the worst team in the NHL at putting talent out on the ice - -THAT is why they have SUCKED!  And that is because of incompetent management.  And I can promise you one thing:  This sucking will absolutely continue indefinitely until the Sabres find competent management.