Report Sabres preparing for An Additional Top Ten Pick

[Thwomp!]

I still bet Columbus somehow.  We'd have 1 and 5.

[Marvin]

Arizona's.

[Crusader1969]

Expansion draft is the 21st. NHL draft is the 23rd 

seattle could pick a goalie that the Sabres want and flip that and the 2nd overall for Samson? 

[Hoss]

13 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Arizona's.

Arizona doesn’t have a top ten pick they had to forfeit their first rounder

Edited June 15, 2021 by Hoss

[Marvin]

29 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Arizona doesn’t have a top ten pick they had to forfeit their first rounder

I know.  I am facetiously suggesting that management is so incompetent that they would get Arizona's 1st in a trade this year.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

yes, I wouldnt' draft a goalie just because but Wallstedt is expected to go in the top `10 or so. Think the Sabres, if they have a 2nd pick in the top 10 should go for it. 

Im definitely not going to pass on him because of I already have UPL and Portillo

Even if UPL and Portillo hit, you still want a future #1 in your system behind them.  That said, maybe Wallstedt is that player, maybe it's someone in the second round or a prospect that comes in a trade.  But you need a robust pipeline.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Or can we narrow it to picks 6-10?  Would they have reported top 5 pick if it was negotiations with teams 2-5?

So Det, SJ, LA, Van and Ott.  With Det and Ott returning to our division, my guess is we are talking about picks 7-9.  Eichel to be reunited with buddy Kane or going to LA for a pile of picks and prospects.  SJ is desperate for a top line center but do they have the assets?

Elliotte’s exact words were “another pick high in the draft…someone said to me ‘watch some of the teams that are picking high and Buffalo’.”

Jeff responded with Anaheim and Elliotte said “that’s one team, you know I feel that they’re going to do something big”

Jeff said Columbus has three 1st round picks and Elliotte said “Columbus is going into draft and develop mode here, I don’t know how high a pick we’re talking here, but that makes a lot sense.”

Elliotte then said “the other one too, is LA” He gave credence to the Hovan report, linked the Kings pick to Reinhart and Seth Jones and said teams who are talking about moving up into the top 10 are talking about the Kings.

[Brawndo]

Friedman was on in @dudacekneck of the woods and mentioned that the Canucks have been interested in Reinhart for awhile 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman was on in @dudacekneck of the woods and mentioned that the Canucks have been interested in Reinhart for awhile 

Seems logical. If he leaves I’ll root for him wherever he goes. Vancouver feels like a good fit for a “hockey deal” as the kids call it.

[Brawndo]

It would take them some cap gymnastics though. They have 14 Million in Cap Space, both Hughes and Petterson are RFAs 

The Sabres would have to take some cap dumps back increasing the return.

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

It would take them some cap gymnastics though. They have 14 Million in Cap Space, both Hughes and Petterson are RFAs 

The Sabres would have to take some cap dumps back increasing the return.

I've seen a fair amount of bad Vancouver fan offers for Sam, but there does seem to be some willingness amongst the fans to give up pick 9 (which is fair value, more or less) and a sense that Benning would do it.

The issue is the cap piece. They are going to have to add to get us to take their junk, but they don't have a sweet spot where the add is worth the junk. One name I'm watching is Nate Schmidt, who has a big ticket, but is still useful (especially as a Risto replacement) and may want out.

Separately, I am placing way too much focus on Elliotte's use of "teams" (plural). Multiple bidders, or multiple trades?

Edited June 16, 2021 by dudacek

[Hoss]

16 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

It would take them some cap gymnastics though. They have 14 Million in Cap Space, both Hughes and Petterson are RFAs 

The Sabres would have to take some cap dumps back increasing the return.

There are players on their roster that aren’t just cap dumps that we can target.

[Thorny]

51 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I've seen a fair amount of bad Vancouver fan offers for Sam, but there does seem to be some willingness amongst the fans to give up pick 9 (which is fair value, more or less) and a sense that Benning would do it.

The issue is the cap piece. They are going to have to add to get us to take their junk, but they don't have a sweet spot where the add is worth the junk. One name I'm watching is Nate Schmidt, who has a big ticket, but is still useful (especially as a Risto replacement) and may want out.

Separately, I am placing way too much focus on Elliotte's use of "teams" (plural). Multiple bidders, or multiple trades?

Just wanted to clarify, in your estimation pick 9 is worth Reinhart?

Personally I look at it as an asset that is at least even odds to not end up as good as Sam, and that's several years away from now. I think he should be worth considerably more than that in a deal. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Canucks have Hoglander, Keppen, Jett Woo, Kole Lind

[Brawndo]

46 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There are players on their roster that aren’t just cap dumps that we can target.

Miller, Horvat, Boeser and Schmidt come to mind

[Hoss]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Miller, Horvat, Boeser and Schmidt come to mind

Indeed. The middle two in particular.

[DarthEbriate]

I just don't see Vancouver as a trade target for Reinhart with only one year left on his deal. He can just play this season and then go home as a UFA. They're clearing some bad cap hits this year so they should be able to sign Hughes and Pettersson (Baertschi, Edler, Sutter). And they can buy out Eriksson's final year. Then, they can simply sign Reinhart next season after Roussel, Holtby, and Beagle's poor cap hits come off the books. Then, they wouldn't need to lose any good, cheap pieces along the way.

[Curt]

25 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Just wanted to clarify, in your estimation pick 9 is worth Reinhart?

Personally I look at it as an asset that is at least even odds to not end up as good as Sam, and that's several years away from now. I think he should be worth considerably more than that in a deal. 

It must depend heavily on the contract situation, right?

Is Reinhart willing to sign a long term contract with a team as part of a trade?

If not, what is just one year of Reinhart worth?

[klos1963]

4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Expansion draft is the 21st. NHL draft is the 23rd 

seattle could pick a goalie that the Sabres want and flip that and the 2nd overall for Samson? 

Depending on the goalie, sounds like an lot for Samson.

[sabremike]

41 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Just wanted to clarify, in your estimation pick 9 is worth Reinhart?

Personally I look at it as an asset that is at least even odds to not end up as good as Sam, and that's several years away from now. I think he should be worth considerably more than that in a deal. 

In a normal year it would be, but for one of the most pitiful drafts in terms of high end talent you will ever see that's pretty bad value.

[pi2000]

8 hours ago, Trettioåtta said:

And the police's job is to investigate crime - doesn't mean they put the same level of resource across all crimes.

Having a second pick in your top ten changes your drafting strategy. BPA is a vague and nebulous term. Moreover, it changes your trade prospects

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

I just don't see Vancouver as a trade target for Reinhart with only one year left on his deal. He can just play this season and then go home as a UFA. They're clearing some bad cap hits this year so they should be able to sign Hughes and Pettersson (Baertschi, Edler, Sutter). And they can buy out Eriksson's final year. Then, they can simply sign Reinhart next season after Roussel, Holtby, and Beagle's poor cap hits come off the books. Then, they wouldn't need to lose any good, cheap pieces along the way.

This theory almost never works. So many examples of situations where people said a franchise could just sit and wait for a guy to get to UFA and then that player never makes it to UFA. You trade for the player if you want them.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Just wanted to clarify, in your estimation pick 9 is worth Reinhart?

Personally I look at it as an asset that is at least even odds to not end up as good as Sam, and that's several years away from now. I think he should be worth considerably more than that in a deal. 

Personally, I agree with you. I would not trade Sam for pick 9 in a vacuum, or if I was the Sabres.

Pick 9 is also far too much to give up for a rental, any rental. Top 10 picks have only been moved for players a handful of times in the past 20 years.

Assuming I have been given a good indication I am going to be able sign him, I see Sam’s market value as approximately pick 9 and a lesser pick or prospect. Jordan Staal was traded for more than that. So was Jeff Carter. Ryan O’Reilly was traded for less than that at least once, maybe twice. Derek Stepan was traded for approximately pick 7 (Raantta and DeAngelo were part of the deal).

For the record, Elliotte Friedman had no problem thinking a top 10 pick could be on the table for Sam.

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Canucks have Hoglander, Keppen, Jett Woo, Kole Lind

And Podkolzin. The fans would riot if Hoglander or Pod was traded as the main piece for Sam, let alone the throw-in. I would rather use the Bruins pick on a prospect than trade it for any of their other prospects. Justin Bailey level prospects, IMO.

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Miller, Horvat, Boeser and Schmidt come to mind

The issue with the first three is they are all of a similar tier to Sam. I think the point of a Canucks trade for Sam is they would like to add him to that core rather than shuffle it.

Horvat is their captain and worth more than Sam, IMO. He isn’t going anywhere. Boeser can score goals and could be made available. But he’s a better Olofsson and doesn’t drive play. He isn’t as good as Sam and isn’t a good fit on a team without good centres. Miller mostly plays wing but could be a stopgap 1C for us post-Eichel and is the best fit for a trade between the two. He is older than what is ideal for the Sabres. He is also a bit of a volcanic personality and maybe not the type of leader we might be looking for in a rebuilding year.

Edited June 16, 2021 by dudacek

[Hoss]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The issue with the first three is they are all of a similar tier to Sam. I think the point of a Canucks trade for Sam is they would like to add him to that core rather than shuffle it.

Horvat is their captain and worth more than Sam, IMO. He isn’t going anywhere. Boeser can score goals and could be made available. But he’s a better Olofsson and doesn’t drive play. He isn’t as good as Sam and isn’t a good fit on a team without good centres. Miller mostly plays wing but could be a stopgap 1C for us post-Eichel and is the best fit for a trade between the two. He is older than what is ideal for the Sabres. He is also a bit of a volcanic personality and maybe not the type of leader we might be looking for in a rebuilding year.

There have been rumblings on all three of them at some point in the last two years, though. I think there's a deal to be had for any of them as the centerpiece with Samson going the other way.  It could make sense for both sides to make it a more involved deal where other bodies are involved. The value on Reinhart is a little higher than a guy like Boeser but near/equal/below what Horvat is. If it's Boeser Vancouver isn't going to want to add much but maybe they add a more valuable second piece than our second piece added.

(NOTE: If Samson is traded I'm going to miss giving him the honor by calling him Samson each time as he requested as a young'n)

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There have been rumblings on all three of them at some point in the last two years, though. I think there's a deal to be had for any of them as the centerpiece with Samson going the other way.  It could make sense for both sides to make it a more involved deal where other bodies are involved. The value on Reinhart is a little higher than a guy like Boeser but near/equal/below what Horvat is. If it's Boeser Vancouver isn't going to want to add much but maybe they add a more valuable second piece than our second piece added.

(NOTE: If Samson is traded I'm going to miss giving him the honor by calling him Samson each time as he requested as a young'n)

Why would the Canucks trade any of them for Sam though?

Petterson is a better 1C, Horvat is a better 2C and they aren’t trading for Sam to be a 3C

Boeser is a better trigger man and Miller a better power forward. There aren’t any roster-building reasons there.

Tnere aren’t any contract reasons either, given what Sam will be signing for.

I’m not aware of any dressing room reasons other than Miller’s temper.

Edited June 16, 2021 by dudacek