GDT: Kevyn Adams Press Conference -- The "Disconnect" Explained--11:00 am

[Taro T]

54 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I still come back to the idea that Adams looks so focused on rebuilding, that, as I've mentioned before, the "disconnect" between him and Eichel is as much about differing viewpoints on what to prioritize, as it is the injury. 

As I said during the conference, Adams' whole "buy into something bigger than yourself" bit did seem to be directed at Jack, and as I said, maybe not just the surface level of "being a selfless part of the team", but the bigger idea being Adams' desire to rebuild. 

I really think Adams wants a rebuild and have been clinging to this for a while. 

If you want to win, you don't need to ask for buy-in, right? It would go without saying. "Buy in", to me, screams rebuild, not some vague concept of being a good teammate. And he mentioned a disconnect with the fans. Isn't he asking for the same buy-in, with us, too?

Follow the "blinding light" of the kids, or however he phrased it 

Interesting line of thought.  

Liked the post, but don't truly "like" it because if you're right then we are on the verge of another rebuild.  And 6 years of rebuilding is already ~3 years too long.  (Which corresponds to a horribly misguided trade, but we digress.)

If the die has been cast & they're planning another rebuild at least this time they have several players that will be hitting their prime when newly added top end talent could help contribute.  But that is of small comfort.  Not even remotely looking forward to the next 2 seasons if they are going to rebuild.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Interesting line of thought.  

Liked the post, but don't truly "like" it because if you're right then we are on the verge of another rebuild.  And 6 years of rebuilding is already ~3 years too long.  (Which corresponds to a horribly misguided trade, but we digress.)

If the die has been cast & they're planning another rebuild at least this time they have several players that will be hitting their prime when newly added top end talent could help contribute.  But that is of small comfort.  Not even remotely looking forward to the next 2 seasons if they are going to rebuild.

@dudacek has also suspected for quite a while that Adams may have a few desires himself, where Jack and a trade are concerned, as well 

I was thinking Jack and Sam as the vets for Cozens and the other kids. That they'd represent the capable vets. To your point, maybe Cozens and Dahlin et al are the vets. 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

@dudacek has also suspected for quite a while that Adams may have a few desires himself, where Jack and a trade are concerned, as well 

I was thinking Jack and Sam as the vets for Cozens and the other kids. That they'd represent the capable vets. To your point, maybe Cozens and Dahlin et al are the vets. 

That's the fear.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

If you want to win, you don't need to ask for buy-in, right? It would go without saying. "Buy in", to me, screams rebuild, not some vague concept of being a good teammate. And he mentioned a disconnect with the fans. Isn't he asking for the same buy-in, with us, too?

I disagree with the premise.  Asking/requiring buy in does not equal rebuilding in my mind.

Botterill/Adams/Kruger talked a lot about buy in the past two years and they certainly weren’t rebuilding.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I still come back to the idea that Adams looks so focused on rebuilding, that, as I've mentioned before, the "disconnect" between him and Eichel is as much about differing viewpoints on what to prioritize, as it is the injury. 

As I said during the conference, Adams' whole "buy into something bigger than yourself" bit did seem to be directed at Jack, and as I said, maybe not just the surface level of "being a selfless part of the team", but the bigger idea being Adams' desire to rebuild. 

I really think Adams wants a rebuild and have been clinging to this for a while. 

If you want to win, you don't need to ask for buy-in, right? It would go without saying. "Buy in", to me, screams rebuild, not some vague concept of being a good teammate. And he mentioned a disconnect with the fans. Isn't he asking for the same buy-in, with us, too?

Follow the "blinding light" of the kids, or however he phrased it 

This is thoughtful and entirely valid post, but I disagree.

I don't think Adams goal is to "rebuild" the Sabres, I think his goal is to "fix" them.

And I think what he feels he needs to repair is the belief in the locker room that they can get better, and the mindset that they come to work every day believing that if they work hard and trust the process, they will get better.

He demands commitment or he doesn't want you on his team, no matter how talented you are. But I don't think he shares your belief that he needs to take a step back to do it. He's saying Jay McKee and Mike Peca may not be as talented, but they make for a better team than Alex Mogilny, period.

Yes, it is a very Bills philosophy.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is thoughtful and entirely valid post, but I disagree.

I don't think Adams goal is to "rebuild" the Sabres, I think his goal is to "fix" them.

And I think what he feels he needs to repair is the belief in the locker room that they can get better, and the mindset that they come to work every day believing that if they work hard and trust the process, they will get better.

He demands commitment or he doesn't want you on his team, no matter how talented you are. But I don't think he shares your belief that he needs to take a step back to do it. He's saying Jay McKee and Mike Peca may not be as talented, but they make for a better team than Alex Mogilny, period.

Yes, it is a very Bills philosophy.

I suppose we'll see. 

If we trade Eichel for futures and don't make a worthy attempt to insulate the kids with proven talent, I think rebuilding is exactly what we are doing. 

Do you think the expectation next year from Adams, with the roster he assembles, will be playoffs? Is that what he'll be expecting of his young roster?

The idea coming into this season was certainly playoffs - we know that from the dialogue when we acquired Hall, among other things

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I suppose we'll see. 

If we trade Eichel for futures and don't make a worthy attempt to insulate the kids with proven talent, I think rebuilding is exactly what we are doing. 

Do you think the expectation next year from Adams, with the roster he assembles, will be playoffs? Is that what he'll be expecting of his young roster?

The idea coming into this season was certainly playoffs - we know that from the dialogue when we acquired Hall, among other things

Don't know. A lot of cards to play and I don't believe his words have tipped his hand.

Ask me in October.

[Thorny]

I believe Adams wants to "fix" the Sabres as well, but I am of the opinion that, in being given the mandate to do this, he is going to take the longest allowable road possible. I have zero doubt that if Pegula gave Adams the opportunity to do a long range rebuild, he'd take it

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Don't know. A lot of cards to play and I don't believe his words have tipped his hand.

Ask me in October.

I think we can agree then, if the expectation from Adams isn't playoffs, he willingly took a step back?

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Interesting line of thought.  

Liked the post, but don't truly "like" it because if you're right then we are on the verge of another rebuild.  And 6 years of rebuilding is already ~3 years too long.  (Which corresponds to a horribly misguided trade, but we digress.)

If the die has been cast & they're planning another rebuild at least this time they have several players that will be hitting their prime when newly added top end talent could help contribute.  But that is of small comfort.  Not even remotely looking forward to the next 2 seasons if they are going to rebuild.

I'm always a bit curious what "prime" means.  I know the point scoring prime of players is the mid 20's or so, but does that really correlate to wins and building a roster?

[bunomatic]

Look at the Avs eh? 4 years ago they were pretty much where we are again. 4 years and they have the presidents trophy. With some of our ‘ cast offs ‘. Funny how that works. Other teams seem to do it right. 

[thewookie1]

31 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Look at the Avs eh? 4 years ago they were pretty much where we are again. 4 years and they have the presidents trophy. With some of our ‘ cast offs ‘. Funny how that works. Other teams seem to do it right. 

Part of it was highly skilled management by Sakic.

Part of it was just luck.

 

For us

We have questionable at best management

Almost zero luck in regards to players or prospects coming here and just exploding.

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Part of it was highly skilled management by Sakic.

Part of it was just luck.

 

For us

We have questionable at best management

Almost zero luck in regards to players or prospects coming here and just exploding.

And, as @TomWebster pointed out, at the stage of his career that Adams is at, everybody thought Sakic was a joke.  Nobody's laughing now.

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Part of it was highly skilled management by Sakic.

Part of it was just luck.

 

For us

We have questionable at best management

Almost zero luck in regards to players or prospects coming here and just exploding.

They kept the right pieces, mackinnon is massively underpaid , and got a sick return for the malcontent duchene (byram and girard).  Erik Johnsons still solid, and they have 3 solid young blue liners in girard, byram, and makar (all 22 or younger).  Throw in Toews - their d is loaded with talent.  

They also whiffed on their O'reilly trade for the most part, but did get a usable bottom 6 forward in Compher (probably comparable to what we'll end up with Tage) - hopefully johnson turns out to be something.

There are things that they did that take a little foresight though.  Trading for Grubauer before they lost varlamov sticks out to me (we are losing ullmark and have no real plan at the position other than an unprepared rookie).  Grubauer is a free agent, but they currently would still have Francouz - which is still better than anything we got. 

[sabremike]

People simultaneously ranting about needing to change the losing culture while calling for getting rid of the few NHL players we have so that we have a roster that's lucky to win 15 games and gets killed on a nightly basis is itself quite a disconnect.

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

People simultaneously ranting about needing to change the losing culture while calling for getting rid of the few NHL players we have so that we have a roster that's lucky to win 15 games and gets killed on a nightly basis is itself quite a disconnect.

Wright and the next "wonder kid", it's the right time to rebuild the rebuild.

That aside, Eichel, Reinhart, and Risto (if he's included in your thoughts on this) have been on this team for 5 or longer years and the culture has actually consistently gotten worse, drawing last place finishes with consistency. And while it would be correct to point out the management and coaching turn over rate, the players on the roster bare a shared responsibility to the consistency of that culture.

In the final objective analysis, no, trading Eichel, Reinhart and Risto would not be anymore detrimental to that culture then if they stayed.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Wright and the next "wonder kid", it's the right time to rebuild the rebuild.

That aside, Eichel, Reinhart, and Risto (if he's included in your thoughts on this) have been on this team for 5 or longer years and the culture has actually consistently gotten worse, drawing last place finishes with consistency. And while it would be correct to point out the management and coaching turn over rate, the players on the roster bare a shared responsibility to the consistency of that culture.

In the final objective analysis, no, trading Eichel, Reinhart and Risto would not be anymore detrimental to that culture then if they stayed.

And Dahlin will have been on the roster for 5 years once we are in the running for mr. wonder kid, if we are, so I struggle to see how that doesn’t set up for a continuous cycle when applying the logic of your post 

[Curt]

28 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Wright and the next "wonder kid", it's the right time to rebuild the rebuild.

That aside, Eichel, Reinhart, and Risto (if he's included in your thoughts on this) have been on this team for 5 or longer years and the culture has actually consistently gotten worse, drawing last place finishes with consistency. And while it would be correct to point out the management and coaching turn over rate, the players on the roster bare a shared responsibility to the consistency of that culture.

In the final objective analysis, no, trading Eichel, Reinhart and Risto would not be anymore detrimental to that culture then if they stayed.

Could you go into more detail on this?  What was the culture like 5 years ago?  What is the culture like now?  What are you basing your evaluation of culture off of?

[Scottysabres]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And Dahlin will have been on the roster for 5 years once we are in the running for mr. wonder kid, if we are, so I struggle to see how that doesn’t set up for a continuous cycle when applying the logic of your post 

The logic is simple, break the cycle.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

The logic is simple, break the cycle.

But you said the reason we have to trade these guys is because they’ve been beaten down by losing too much and in the same post suggest it’s a good idea to rebuild now because of the upcoming prospects (which we’d presumably have to finish low to get). So by the time we get new guys, based on the logic of your post, we’d have to deal the Dahlin’s of the team who’ll have been through 5 years of losing 

[Scottysabres]

10 hours ago, Curt said:

Could you go into more detail on this?  What was the culture like 5 years ago?  What is the culture like now?  What are you basing your evaluation of culture off of?

Many factors.

The consistent post Jan. 1 season collapse

Players losing passion for the game after enduring time in Buffalo

No real sense of urgency in play on the ice, as well as coherent leadership in the locker room. I.E. no accountability.

Lack of on ice team mate support.

Disappearance of the "never give up the ship, never surrender" grit, right the end of games.

Yes, as was mentioned, management and coaching turnovers have an impact, that does not, in not only my opinion, but an opinion shared by others, constitute a pass on the players accountability in all of this.

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

But you said the reason we have to trade these guys is because they’ve been beaten down by losing too much and in the same post suggest it’s a good idea to rebuild now because of the upcoming prospects (which we’d presumably have to finish low to get). So by the time we get new guys, based on the logic of your post, we’d have to deal the Dahlin’s of the team who’ll have been through 5 years of losing 

No, you said that. Go back, you may quote what I said. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Scottysabres

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

The logic is simple, break the cycle.

I don’t know man.  What you are saying looks a lot like continuing a cycle as opposed to breaking it.

-Trade everyone draft Reinhart/Eichel

-ROR sick of losing, trade him, draft Dahlin

-Eichel/Reinhart sick of losing, trade them, draft #1

-rebuild with youth, stay pretty bad for a couple years????

-Dahlin sick of losing, trade him????

-Draft Wright/Bedard/Michkov????

Looks like a continued cycle, not a broken cycle.

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Curt said:

I don’t know man.  What you are saying looks a lot like continuing a cycle as opposed to breaking it.

-Trade everyone draft Reinhart/Eichel

-ROR sick of losing, trade him, draft Dahlin

-Eichel/Reinhart sick of losing, trade them, draft #1

-rebuild with youth, stay pretty bad for a couple years????

-Dahlin sick of losing, trade him????

-Draft Wright/Bedard/Michkov????

Looks like a continued cycle, not a broken cycle.

I'm not sure it would work Curt, and I'm not planting a flag saying this is the end all be all of it, what I did say was that the culture would be indifferent if Eichel, Reinhart and Risto stayed, or go. And there is factual prolonged multi-seasonal data to support that.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Many factors.

The consistent post Jan. 1 season collapse

Players losing passion for the game after enduring time in Buffalo

No real sense of urgency in play on the ice, as well as coherent leadership in the locker room. I.E. no accountability.

Lack of on ice team mate support.

Disappearance of the "never give up the ship, never surrender" grit, right the end of games.

Yes, as was mentioned, management and coaching turnovers have an impact, that does not, in not only my opinion, but an opinion shared by others, constitute a pass on the players accountability in all of this.

No, you said that. Go back, you may quote what I said. 

But you said it was a good year to rebuild because of the presence of Wright and Bedard. What did you mean by this? 

[Thorny]

Or is your contention that Eichel Reinhart and Risto are the reason we finished so low, that they’ve created the losing culture, and not that they’ve been adversely affected by it? 

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

But you said it was a good year to rebuild because of the presence of Wright and Bedard. What did you mean by this? 

I said this:

"Wright and the next "wonder kid", it's the right time to rebuild the rebuild"

In response to @sabremike comment:

"People simultaneously ranting about needing to change the losing culture while calling for getting rid of the few NHL players we have so that we have a roster that's lucky to win 15 games and gets killed on a nightly basis is itself quite a disconnect."

I would have thought the Wright and "Wonder Kid" comment was self evident as a response to sabremike's comment on losing talent to rebuild.